tbone Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) I think Fusion will have the same path as the Taurus. Then it will be a self fulfilling prophecy because people wont be interested in a car that has hardly changed since 2013. There is very little incentive to by a new one. Such a damn shame since they finally had a competitive product. Edited March 18, 2018 by tbone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) I don’t think they’re walking away from Fusion for good unless it comes down to lack of factory capacity and they’re not willing to expand. With Continental gone there is plenty of room in FRAP for a Lincstang and a mid sized sedan. It would be silly to only do 3 CD6 vehicles and only 1 in FRAP. It's the car percentage estimates that have people spooked. In 2017, total sales were ~2.55 M and 22% were cars or ~590K If total sales remain flat for the next two years or so, then the 14% forecast for Ford's cars means about 150K less than now.. Addition of Fusion at FRAP might return a second shift but I'm wondering about whether that causes a lot more disruption with off ine assembly..it would be a way to life boat the North American cars into one plant... Edited March 18, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StangBang Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) You all are a bunch of ASSHOLES Edited March 18, 2018 by StangBang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 It's the car percentage estimates that have people spooked. In 2017, total sales were ~2.55 M and 22% were cars or ~590K If total sales remain flat for the next two years or so, then the 14% forecast for Ford's cars means about 150K less than now.. Addition of Fusion at FRAP might return a second shift but I'm wondering about whether that causes a lot more disruption with off ine assembly..it would be a way to life boat the North American cars into one plant... I don’t doubt the numbers for 2020 because I think they need Fusion’s plant capacity to get all the other products out the door - same reason they’re importing Focus. But after that I’m sure they’ll consider bringing a mid sized sedan IF there is still a decent market AND they have the plant capacity to do it. I don’t think it’s worth building a new plant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 You all are a bunch of ASSHOLES And you said we have small minds, so I guess that includes you. How about we stop the personal attacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) I don’t doubt the numbers for 2020 because I think they need Fusion’s plant capacity to get all the other products out the door - same reason they’re importing Focus. But after that I’m sure they’ll consider bringing a mid sized sedan IF there is still a decent market AND they have the plant capacity to do it. I don’t think it’s worth building a new plant. Agree with production capacity for new vehicles planned, I'm intrigued to see how Ford plays this in regard to re-configuring plants and getting products in the right places.and probably hear more later this year (fingers crossed) The impact of CD6 and how FRAP is reconfigured and final confirmation of products for Hermosillo & Cuautitlan. Edited March 18, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 People seem to only remember the bad stuff about Ford models. Every time there's a story about Ford posted, someone is almost sure to say something about exploding Pinto's, flipping over Explorer's, plugs flying out of PowerStroke engines and of course the latest, steering wheels falling off. Even though it's only 3 and Ford recalled them quickly to fix. Pinto's yes, the rest most have forgotten about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) This morning's Detroit Press Press article... "Can F-150 and more trucks pull Ford out of rut?" https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/03/18/f-150-pickup-ford-stock/425273002/ Edited March 18, 2018 by ice-capades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 This morning's Detroit Press Press article... "Can F-150 and more trucks pull Ford out of rut?" https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/03/18/f-150-pickup-ford-stock/425273002/ Good grief. Ford will only sell Trucks!! Not true. Oh and SUVs. Not really - lots of crossovers, too and still at least two cars. But that’s not as sensational for the headline. Ford has $35B in liqudity and a strong balance sheet. They made almost $8B last year. They just launched 3 new utilities (Expy, Navi, Ecosport) and have two more coming soon (Explorer/Aviator). This whole “Ford is in a rut” and “Ford is in trouble” crap is ridiculous. Just because they let a couple of products rot on the vine and delayed a few more. If they had no plan at all and nothing in the pipeline then you could say that, but that’s clearly not the case. I hate “journalists”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) Good grief. Ford will only sell Trucks!! Not true. Oh and SUVs. Not really - lots of crossovers, too and still at least two cars. But that’s not as sensational for the headline. Ford has $35B in liqudity and a strong balance sheet. They made almost $8B last year. They just launched 3 new utilities (Expy, Navi, Ecosport) and have two more coming soon (Explorer/Aviator). This whole “Ford is in a rut” and “Ford is in trouble” crap is ridiculous. Just because they let a couple of products rot on the vine and delayed a few more. If they had no plan at all and nothing in the pipeline then you could say that, but that’s clearly not the case. I hate “journalists”. . These articles bring a spotlight onto the folly of Wall Street and their ever popular demand to "enhance investor value" over solid product development. Jacques Nasser famously fed into that when he sold off the Ford Heavy Truck division even though it was making money, just not the amounts that satisfied Wall Street investors. Edited March 18, 2018 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Exactly. Journalists are just parroting what the analysts are saying and analysts are idiots when it comes to running a business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Whatever it takes to get headlines... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Agree with production capacity for new vehicles planned, I'm intrigued to see how Ford plays this in regard to re-configuring plants and getting products in the right places.and probably hear more later this year (fingers crossed) The impact of CD6 and how FRAP is reconfigured and final confirmation of products for Hermosillo & Cuautitlan. With sedan sales declining around the world, could we see a single global source for Fusion/Mondeo? And import it elsewhere/where its not built? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 With sedan sales declining around the world, could we see a single global source for Fusion/Mondeo? And import it elsewhere/where its not built? I’d say that’s likely. I just don’t see them walking away from mid sized sedans altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Good grief. Ford will only sell Trucks!! Not true. Oh and SUVs. Not really - lots of crossovers, too and still at least two cars. But thats not as sensational for the headline. Ford has $35B in liqudity and a strong balance sheet. They made almost $8B last year. They just launched 3 new utilities (Expy, Navi, Ecosport) and have two more coming soon (Explorer/Aviator). This whole Ford is in a rut and Ford is in trouble crap is ridiculous. Just because they let a couple of products rot on the vine and delayed a few more. If they had no plan at all and nothing in the pipeline then you could say that, but thats clearly not the case. I hate journalists. The Detroit Free Press is almost always negative when it comes to the big 3, Ford in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I’d say that’s likely. I just don’t see them walking away from mid sized sedans altogether. Ford now has a situation where NG Mondeo will be built in China, I wonder how that dynamic plays out around the globe.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Ford now has a situation where NG Mondeo will be built in China, I wonder how that dynamic plays out around the globe.. What happened to Germany or wherever theyre built in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 With sedan sales declining around the world, could we see a single global source for Fusion/Mondeo? And import it elsewhere/where its not built? What happened to Germany or wherever theyre built in Europe? . I would bet if that were to come to pass, Valencia Spain production facility would be the odds on favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Good grief. Ford will only sell Trucks!! Not true. Oh and SUVs. Not really - lots of crossovers, too and still at least two cars. But that’s not as sensational for the headline. Ford has $35B in liqudity and a strong balance sheet. They made almost $8B last year. They just launched 3 new utilities (Expy, Navi, Ecosport) and have two more coming soon (Explorer/Aviator). This is the image Ford is building for themselves. The message being delivered is that cars don't matter - it's all about trucks and SUVs. The distinction between SUVs and CUVs is meaningless in this context. You're making the case yourself, five new SUVs while their passenger car lineup dies on the vine. . These articles bring a spotlight onto the folly of Wall Street and their ever popular demand to "enhance investor value" over solid product development. Jacques Nasser famously fed into that when he sold off the Ford Heavy Truck division even though it was making money, just not the amounts that satisfied Wall Street investors. This is the eternal problem with old school American companies, constantly kowtowing to analysts. If Ford wants to be a tech company they should look at how some of the big tech companies treat Wall Street. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 The Detroit Free Press is almost always negative when it comes to the big 3, Ford in particular. Agreed. The Detroit News is much better. And I enjoy reading Daniel Howes columns. I don't always agree with him, or his conclusions, but he's generally fair in his treatment of the Detroit 3, and Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 This is the image Ford is building for themselves. The message being delivered is that cars don't matter - it's all about trucks and SUVs. The distinction between SUVs and CUVs is meaningless in this context. You're making the case yourself, five new SUVs while their passenger car lineup dies on the vine. You missed the point. They’re calling SUVs trucks and saying that Ford is only building trucks. Crossovers are much closer to sedans than trucks and they’ll have more crossovers than truck based SUVs. Even the Aviator and Explorer will be unibody and be closer to a crossover than a true SUV. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Agreed. The Detroit News is much better. And I enjoy reading Daniel Howes columns. I don't always agree with him, or his conclusions, but he's generally fair in his treatment of the Detroit 3, and Ford. Have you listened to his podcast its pretty good. He goes more in depth with his points than his articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 What happened to Germany or wherever theyre built in Europe? Didn't Ford say the Chinese Mondeo won't come to the U.S., and I thought the Mondeo no longer sold well in Europe? The current Mondeo may be too large for Europe, and the original small Mondeo was successful in Europe but a flop in the U.S. (Contour - one of Ford's example of cutting its losses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) What happened to Germany or wherever theyre built in Europe? A few years ago, the plant at Genk, Belgium was closed down (lots of +20 year workers lost their jobs) and Mondeo, S-max and Galaxy were moved to lower cost Valencia, Spain. From that publicized leak a while back, cancellation of NG parts contract for Fusion at Hernosillo also applied to Mondeo at Valencia. ... I always wondered if that means both "dead leg" until something else is ready , like a CD6 Fusion / Mondeo? Edited March 19, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 My 2 cents on new nameplates... Planetary Freedom Environmental Elemental Altair (the eagle that gives Zeus his lightening bolt, great for electric or hybrid) Pangaea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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