silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 https://dailykanban.com/2018/02/searching-production-hell-fords-kentucky-truck-plant/ Automakers like Ford are rightly frustrated by the public and market’s readiness to believe Tesla’s narrative about disrupting automotive manufacturing, but there’s reason to believe that the wildly different standards to which Tesla and other automakers are held actually hurts the would-be upstart. After all, one of the main reasons that KTP operates so efficiently and with such high quality is that it has no choice. Whereas Tesla has been able to count on investors and analysts to forgive its “production hell” fiascoes, KTP is the beating heart of Ford’s business, building some of the most high-margin and in-demand vehicles Ford has ever made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Exactly what I have been saying for years...All Tesla's I have seen and driven have had inconsistent quality in it's build. Mismatched paint, badly aligned interior panels and trim, water in the headlight lenses, things that at this stage are not forgivable, yet the buyers refuse to acknowledge they have those issues. I'll point it out, educate, and you can show facts and such and they refuse to accept it. I guess when your spending that amount of money people aren't willing to admit there's an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Im the opposite, if Im spending that kind of money I expect perfection and would acknowledge it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Exactly what I have been saying for years...All Tesla's I have seen and driven have had inconsistent quality in it's build. Mismatched paint, badly aligned interior panels and trim, water in the headlight lenses, things that at this stage are not forgivable, yet the buyers refuse to acknowledge they have those issues. I'll point it out, educate, and you can show facts and such and they refuse to accept it. I guess when your spending that amount of money people aren't willing to admit there's an issue. Exactly, buyers forgive it because they want an Electric car, and Tesla is the only manufacture that produces a real electric car that is good looking. As soon as Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and BMW comes out with real electric cars Tesla is done. One thing to also consider the brand that has the most buyers on the Model 3 list is Toyota. Those customers will NOT tolerate any of it, Tesla will also end up hurting GM and Ford in the process. Those customers will go "see american car brands can't build good cars" and will go back to driving imports. Tesla has to watch public perception, even non-car people are beginning to notice they can't do things on time and most of what musk says is snake oil and smoke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I find this situation is hilarious and sad at the same time. Musk is a snake oil salesman that Wall Street eats up. Consumers that want the latest and greatest tech also eat up Musks version of the future. These consumers are mostly not auto enthusiast. It helps that Tesla in general has some slick looking designs compared to the competition (looking at you Bolt). These consumers have become the greatest fanboys of the Internet and can find excuse after excuse why Tesla is running into problems, defending it to the bitter end. Yet if Ford or GM ever did any of this crap, they would be forever roasted. Tesla needs the model 3 to be a rampant success in order to survive. Meanwhile, they are struggling with every aspect of delivering their product. Every quarter we hear, "next quarter". Will investors every pull the plug? I don't know. What I do know is that Tesla claims the base price is 35k (plus tax incentives). However for the Tesla plan to work, they will need to sell far more than 200,000 Model 3's. Remember, once you hit 200,000 tax incentives no longer exist. Even better, most model 3's sticker for over 45-55k. That doesn't sound like the median price for a car that is slightly larger than a focus. I have a coworker who is all in on Tesla and had a reservation. We have had many arguments on Tesla. His reservation was called up for a spot, and he gave it to his dad. He already has a Volt and i3 (he thinks those are poser cars now). He brought it into the office and I had to bite my tongue. It looked nice but I couldn't help notice the crappy fit and finish. Panel gaps, interior not matching up so well. I didn't say a word but I am pretty sure he noticed me looking at the finer details. He couldn't stop bragging about it. I thought about that for a moment, if someone just drops around 50k are they going to complain about it or make is sound like it was a smart purchase? The latter of course. I remember that Delorean had a nice looking car too. How did that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 I have a coworker who is all in on Tesla and had a reservation. We have had many arguments on Tesla. His reservation was called up for a spot, and he gave it to his dad. He already has a Volt and i3 (he thinks those are poser cars now). He brought it into the office and I had to bite my tongue. It looked nice but I couldn't help notice the crappy fit and finish. Panel gaps, interior not matching up so well. I didn't say a word but I am pretty sure he noticed me looking at the finer details. He couldn't stop bragging about it. I thought about that for a moment, if someone just drops around 50k are they going to complain about it or make is sound like it was a smart purchase? The latter of course. A coworker of mine at another facility has a Tesla S sedan-and I noted the same things- the build quality wasn't all that and the interior wasn't all the great either-and it creaked/squeaked alot for a car that costs as much as it does-heck my lowly SHO has far better interior QC then it did...not to mention the dash was a bit of a turnoff-the wood pattern on the dash reminded me of something from Ikea-printed wood-not real wood. The performance was impressive though-but the rest of it was meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 A coworker of mine at another facility has a Tesla S sedan-and I noted the same things- the build quality wasn't all that and the interior wasn't all the great either-and it creaked/squeaked alot for a car that costs as much as it does-heck my lowly SHO has far better interior QC then it did...not to mention the dash was a bit of a turnoff-the wood pattern on the dash reminded me of something from Ikea-printed wood-not real wood. The performance was impressive though-but the rest of it was meh. I hated the dash. Totally reminded me of an IKEA car. We didn't get a chance to drive it, just look at in the parking structure, but from what I have read the performance is amazing. The question I have is this, if you were in the market for a 40-60k electric sedan would you buy something from Tesla or another more well established auto maker (Audi, BMW, MB,etc)? I know what I would and it wouldn't be the Tesla. I think as more and more of these get on the road people are going to start having major problems. Although, Tesla is really good a legally "hiding" those problems with all the NDA stuff you have to sign to buy it. Also, I really think Tesla is on the verge of losing it's first mover advantage. Sure, they were one of the first niche market highend electric car makers but now I am starting to think other automakers are truly catching up. I think in a year, we'll start having a better understanding of Tesla's fate. Side note, GM really dropped the ball on the Bolt. Engineering and performance wise, a great feat. Styling wise, could they have possibly made it look any worse? Fine, do a hatch setup for more utility but FFS why make it look like an early 2000's econobox. A Volt wagon with a Bolt powertrain would have been a better option. It's like they brought back the folks we styled the Aztec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Side note, GM really dropped the ball on the Bolt. Engineering and performance wise, a great feat. Styling wise, could they have possibly made it look any worse? Fine, do a hatch setup for more utility but FFS why make it look like an early 2000's econobox. A Volt wagon with a Bolt powertrain would have been a better option. It's like they brought back the folks we styled the Aztec. When is the last time Chevy had a "good" looking car? I do have to say I am liking what Buick has been doing styling wise-they don't look like a tarted up chevy anymore-they remind me of Volvo-nice clean shapes without much busy detail to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 When is the last time Chevy had a "good" looking car? The Impala isn't horrible but then again it is more or less just a copy of what most other brand's sedans have looked like for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I actually like the new Malibu. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I actually like the new Malibu. I hate the "flat" front end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomerSooner Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Isn't the Tesla fanboy the same guy who would previously only buy a Toyota because they were the most reliable cars? The same guy that would only buy a Volvo because they were the safest cars? The same guy that would only drive a BMW because it's the "ultimate driving machine" (and then goes out and buys one with an automatic. The heathen.). Never overestimate the buying public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I hate the "flat" front end. Flat??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 You must have been thinking about the previous model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Ugh the Malibu isn't good looking in person... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Ugh the Malibu isn't good looking in person... I actually thought about the Impala. I just hate the back end of both the Impala and Malibu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Flat??? Nope. I mean that one. I hate the horizontal (that's what I meant by flat) line that spans the entire car across the grille and headlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetoy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I've looked at many Tesla model S cars and driven them. The early ones were mostly hand built and quite nice. The newer ones are less perfect. They are still pretty good. Let's be honest here. Ford isn't at the top of the heap with fit and finish either. The Model S I drove last year was the quietest car I have ever driven. Very well put together with no rattles etc. I think for a relatively new manufacturer with such huge demand they are doing quite well. We haven't seen hype and demand for a new model like the model 3 since the first display of the 65 mustang. It's going to be tough to beat Tesla when they have the supporting infrastructure for fast charging around the world. Yeah I wish I had a Model S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluetoy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Oh and I forgot... The Malibu is hideous. IMHO. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 January Production, Kentucky Truck Plant Ford F series Super Duty .............................29,672 (29,924) Ford Expedition ..............................................6,816 (6,355) Lincoln Navigator ...........................................1,816 (854) Kentucky Truck (Louisville) (T) .....................38,304 (37,133) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 January Production, Kentucky Truck Plant Ford F series Super Duty .............................29,672 (29,924) Ford Expedition ..............................................6,816 (6,355) Lincoln Navigator ...........................................1,816 (854) Kentucky Truck (Louisville) (T) .....................38,304 (37,133) I'm confused by what the columns are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) I'm confused by what the columns are?I'm guessing that the numbers in parentheses are the production numbers for KTP for January, 2017. That's a pretty spectacular jump for Navigator. Edited February 26, 2018 by SoonerLS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgm Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 January Production, Kentucky Truck Plant Ford F series Super Duty .............................29,672 (29,924) Ford Expedition ..............................................6,816 (6,355) Lincoln Navigator ...........................................1,816 (854) Kentucky Truck (Louisville) (T) .....................38,304 (37,133) Wow that is a lot of vehicles for 1 month. How many more Expedition and Navigator can be made without taking away from the Super Duty? I could see them selling close to 10,000 Expedition right now if they were available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Apparently theres a separate line for the SUVs after the body shop but they all share final trim line Maybe Ford can change things around with the mix and line speed - you wouldnt want 25% more Super Dutys so maybe its a rebalance and speed increase...... Edited February 26, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The Expeditions are finally starting to show up. My dealer shows 9 in stock. I was down there again today and I saw way more then that. They have a huge area, so hard to see everything they have. I sat in a Limited and started it up and tried out the radio and A/C. One thing I like about the Limited over the Platinum is the entire interior is black while the Platinum has the light colored headliner. I also sat in a Raptor and started that up also. I really like the feel of it, but really don't want to buy something I'd probably have to pay sticker for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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