2021 Mustang on CD6

[PREMiERdrum]

...it'll still be a watershed moment?

A *lot* of their projected profit growth is coming from products that have been moved to this program. The people I talk to are optimistic, but they have a lot riding on this and the turmoil around there very well could have made an impact on a few things.

[tbone]

All I have to say is it better be a great architecture with so many well respected models riding on it. I consider it an appropriate step forward but they had better execute it effectively, or dare I say flawlessly.

[pffan1990]

Ford will have 3 modular architectures based on what we know as I've speculated for a while now:

 

1. Transverse engine (C3)

2. Longitude engine (CD6)

3. Electric (E1)

 

I made up the E1 name because Model E is too many letters to type repeated in every post. I'm just going to call it E1 from now on.

 

Thanks for the list of speculated architectures. I was not aware that the C3 was modular architecture as I thought it was just a front drive/AWD platform. I know the upcoming global Focus will be C3 but I just thought of something. What platform is the current Escape and Transit Connect on? Will they be morphing onto the C3 within their next gen redesign soon? I would think that is the case along with the possible stretched version for Fusion and Edge.

[akirby]

I think they’re on C2 now or just an updated C1 and yes, they’ll move to C3 although we expect both to be bigger and have a smaller utility that’s slightly smaller than the current Escape but bigger than Ecosport.

[pffan1990]

Yeah, the next Escape/MKC and Transit Connect will be bigger just like the next Focus will be too. I only hope Ford chooses to keep the next Escape/MKC in Kentucky rather than move it to China with the Focus. This small utility you mentioned that would be smaller than Escape but bigger than EcoSport; never heard of that. I won't be surprised if Ford would likely give it the EcoSport name and stop importing the current EcoSport from India. My understand is that the current EcoSport being imported from India had been updated globally as part of its MCE. So by the time this smaller utility you mentioned comes, that could be considered and marketed as the 'redesigned EcoSport' and be built elsewhere (possibly China with Focus). Then Ford can either sell the current EcoSport elsewhere or sell that new smaller utility one globally as the new EcoSport. Then there's the possibility of the Transit Custom that is said to be coming here to join Transit Connect and bigger Transit; announcement pending at next month Work Truck Show in Indianapolis and this van is rumored to be there. I wonder which platform that would be on but that's unknown at this point and would be fitting for another thread which would be setup by the time the Work Truck Show comes 'round. But thanks akirby for answering my prior questions.

[SoonerLS]

I only hope Ford chooses to keep the next Escape/MKC in Kentucky rather than move it to China with the Focus.

The Escape and MKC aren't tied to the Focus, and they're apparently profitable in a strong segment, so there's no reason for Ford to move them to China. There's also the possibility of the Chicken Tax to keep them in the US (though I'm not sure if that applies to Chinese imports or just those from Europe).

Edited February 13, 2018 by SoonerLS

[SteelyD]

 

The thing is they won't be using the same platform-The crash cell is completely different for a coupe vs four door SUV.

 

What will be shared is this:

 

Front/rear end suspensions

powertrains

Harnesses

 

The Mustang will share its "platform" with the MKZ and Continental. The CUV platform will be different.

 

Who wants a Coyote LSC?

[jpd80]

The Escape and MKC aren't tied to the Focus, and they're apparently profitable in a strong segment, so there's no reason for Ford to move them to China. There's also the possibility of the Chicken Tax to keep them in the US (though I'm not sure if that applies to Chinese imports or just those from Europe).

GM imports Buick Envision from China...but yeah, Ford got dinged with the Transit Connect,

something about reinstalling second row seating after imported as a commercial vehicle.

Edited February 13, 2018 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

This has been out there for a while. Yes. Next gen Mustang will be on mod CD6... with a host of other products.

 

If CD6 turns out as they plan it to, it will be a watershed moment for the company.

 

If it doesn't...?

now that Ive had a chance to stop and think about it, this is what Hackett was talking about when he was talking about cutting engineering costs by whatever he said (Dont remember the specific number off hand, too tired from work). Its just further platform consolidation. With this new architecture being truly modular (or so we think at the moment) it allows them to save all those resources normally dedicated to the platform itself and use them elsewhere.

 

Im still not convinced Jim Hackett is the right man for the job, its going to take a lot more than this, but I think Im at least starting to see a method to the madness.

 

My hope that with all of these new vehicles coming in the next 3-5 years he stops with the talk of cost cutting and starts really hammering down on quality. That really needs to be the next major issue he deals with.

[jpd80]

That's the problem though, where he seeking all his cost cuts is with materials and suppliers,

you know what happens when suits keep thinking like that, quality becomes a real problem.

Edited February 13, 2018 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

That's the problem though, where he seeking all his cost cuts is with materials and suppliers,

you know what happens when suits keep thinking like that, quality becomes a real problem.

No, that was done under Mullally. Remember for all the things he did right, this door latch nonsense started under his watch, and Mark Fields did absolutely nothing to fix it and its been spiraling out of control from there. Jury is still out on whether or not Hackett will address it or kick the can down the road and let whoever ends up succeeding him deal with it. I really hope he makes it his next mission.

[fordmantpw]

now that Ive had a chance to stop and think about it, this is what Hackett was talking about when he was talking about cutting engineering costs by whatever he said (Dont remember the specific number off hand, too tired from work). Its just further platform consolidation. With this new architecture being truly modular (or so we think at the moment) it allows them to save all those resources normally dedicated to the platform itself and use them elsewhere.

 

 

I said that a couple weeks ago.

[silvrsvt]

My hope that with all of these new vehicles coming in the next 3-5 years he stops with the talk of cost cutting and starts really hammering down on quality. That really needs to be the next major issue he deals with.

 

I know back in the day, the biggest issue with quality was with third party vendors-my dad told me they had to get rid of so many wiring harnesses because they where put together like shit. I know from my side of the manufacturing world (seeing things 3rd hand where I work at) the same thing happens everywhere.

[theoldwizard]

This has been out there for a while. Yes. Next gen Mustang will be on mod CD6... with a host of other products.

 

If CD6 turns out as they plan it to, it will be a watershed moment for the company.

 

What I want to know, is what made Ford decide to do a new RWD platform and who (figuratively) is the father of this idea ?

 

My SWAG is that someone looked at the drawing of the (then) next Mustang floor pan and said, "ya know, if we could make it wider and a bit longer and maybe increase the suspension travel ..."

 

The big challenge will be controlling/containing weight ! This is something Ford has never done well (look at the MN12 - it was way over its target weight. The current Explorer is no lightweight either after coming from BoF.). Containing weight will be key to re-using many components (engines, transmission, brakes, etc, etc).

 

Hopefully with the platform, Ford can "spin" a new/different "top hat" more quickly. I wonder just how long they think they can make this platform ? Lincoln could really use a long wheel base MKS (or what ever they are going to call it).

[theoldwizard]

thx for the answers...I also thought the "E" was also for plugs ins....and Im seriously curious about its progression being that i heard about it AGES ago.....

 

I know one thing for sure. Ford is pouring huge amounts of money into China, partnering with dozens of different companies in an attempt to "catch up" in the electric car business.

 

You can almost bet, that any Ford BEV will be built in China !

 

And it is not just for manufacturing. They are trying to utilize as much existing/near production design as they can from China. (Lot of mid-level supply/manufacturing management making lots of trips to China, with multiple destinations.)

[theoldwizard]

Im still not convinced Jim Hackett is the right man for the job, its going to take a lot more than this, but I think Im at least starting to see a method to the madness.

 

My hope that with all of these new vehicles coming in the next 3-5 years he stops with the talk of cost cutting and starts really hammering down on quality. That really needs to be the next major issue he deals with.

 

My biggest concern is the HUGE amount of money that is being spent on BEV ! Hacket has to keep his "eye on the ball" with today and tomorrow's vehicle and make them "high demand" and profitable in order to fund his "day after tomorrow dream".

 

One thing that appears to being slowed down is the rebuilding of the R&E Center. The only building they have completed is a new parking garage and new hires are being spread all over the Detroit area. There is a lot of dirt work going on behind Ford Credit (rumored to be one of 3 new data centers). It will be interesting what other construction gets kicked off in 2018.

[2b2]

 

My biggest concern is the HUGE amount of money that is being spent on BEV ! ...

hey, at least BEV is a physical (Physics) possibility.

the fiction of A.I is going to require turning cities & highways into virtual rat mazes

with dumb little pods rolling around the virtual grooves.

( tho I'm relieved this^definition is finally surfacing )

[bzcat]

 

What I want to know, is what made Ford decide to do a new RWD platform and who (figuratively) is the father of this idea ?

 

My SWAG is that someone looked at the drawing of the (then) next Mustang floor pan and said, "ya know, if we could make it wider and a bit longer and maybe increase the suspension travel ..."

 

The big challenge will be controlling/containing weight ! This is something Ford has never done well (look at the MN12 - it was way over its target weight. The current Explorer is no lightweight either after coming from BoF.). Containing weight will be key to re-using many components (engines, transmission, brakes, etc, etc).

 

Hopefully with the platform, Ford can "spin" a new/different "top hat" more quickly. I wonder just how long they think they can make this platform ? Lincoln could really use a long wheel base MKS (or what ever they are going to call it).

 

I think the decision was made solely based on the fact that Ford needed to electrify F-150 and any development work on any hybrid or PHEV F-150 drivetrain could benefit other vehicles if they also have longitude engine. Thus Mustang was (improbably) one of the first vehicles Ford said will be PHEV. So it is a cost containment decision. Not some sort of high concept "RWD is the future!" decision.

 

And we have to be careful. I do not believe CD6 is a "RWD" platform per se. From the very beginning when the word leaked out about CD6, I've maintained that it is simply a longitude engine platform which can be either FWD, RWD, or AWD. I think we will see plenty of FWD CD6 vehicles in the future.

[akirby]

I think they also realized they needed a better platform or Lincoln if they really want to compete globally with the other luxury mfrs.

 

But here is another question that I’ve been pondering ever since Audi debuted their longitudinal FWD vehicles.

 

If you already have a longitudinal engine and transmission what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only? Seems you need a differential and axles and a driveshaft either way. With FWD you also need a transfer case to reverse the power to the front.

 

Seems like you lose all the normal benefits of FWD. What am I missing?

[fordmantpw]

I think they also realized they needed a better platform or Lincoln if they really want to compete globally with the other luxury mfrs.

 

But here is another question that I’ve been pondering ever since Audi debuted their longitudinal FWD vehicles.

 

If you already have a longitudinal engine and transmission what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only? Seems you need a differential and axles and a driveshaft either way. With FWD you also need a transfer case to reverse the power to the front.

 

Seems like you lose all the normal benefits of FWD. What am I missing?

 

A car for those in the snow belt who won't drive RWD?

[silvrsvt]

But here is another question that I’ve been pondering ever since Audi debuted their longitudinal FWD vehicles.

 

If you already have a longitudinal engine and transmission what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only? Seems you need a differential and axles and a driveshaft either way. With FWD you also need a transfer case to reverse the power to the front.

 

Seems like you lose all the normal benefits of FWD. What am I missing?

 

Maybe because they wanted to keep RWD for more expensive products?

[silvrsvt]

 

A car for those in the snow belt who won't drive RWD?

 

But Audi=Quattro (AKA AWD) at least in advertising around here.

[fordmantpw]

 

But Audi=Quattro (AKA AWD) at least in advertising around here.

 

Right, I agree, but I was responding specifically to:

 

 

 

what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only?

[SoonerLS]

But here is another question that Ive been pondering ever since Audi debuted their longitudinal FWD vehicles.

 

If you already have a longitudinal engine and transmission what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only? Seems you need a differential and axles and a driveshaft either way. With FWD you also need a transfer case to reverse the power to the front.

 

Seems like you lose all the normal benefits of FWD. What am I missing?

You gain the assembly line benefits of FWD (powertrain all in one package), but keep the potential of RWD and AWD. You can also get better weight distribution, as more of the powertrain weight can be behind the front axle, although you still have the bulk of the weight of the engine over the front wheels for traction.

[rmc523]

I think they also realized they needed a better platform or Lincoln if they really want to compete globally with the other luxury mfrs.

 

But here is another question that I’ve been pondering ever since Audi debuted their longitudinal FWD vehicles.

 

If you already have a longitudinal engine and transmission what is the benefit of doing FWD only rather than RWD only? Seems you need a differential and axles and a driveshaft either way. With FWD you also need a transfer case to reverse the power to the front.

 

Seems like you lose all the normal benefits of FWD. What am I missing?

 

Could CD6's modular approach be flexible enough to have the RWD longitudinal layout, while FWD models have their own module with the transverse layout?