02MustangGT Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Thanks for the expanded thoughts rmc. I get the impression from other insiders that the Mustang will not be all new until model year 2021 or possibly even 2022. It would certainly make sense to build the new model on the new architecture for 2021 model year (hence the 2020 reference by Farley). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The new Mustang was one of the few things move up by Mark Fields. It was originally slated for 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StangBang Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 And see here we are, all this Lincoln talk is relavent to what happens to certain Ford models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If it can't survive on it's own, it can't be self sustaining. Like a parasite. A leach. A waste of resources and investment. It can’t survive on its own in its current form because they use shared Ford platforms. They would need all new bespoke platforms which means completely different vehicles and a different company. HOWEVER - Lincoln in its current form has been profitable or many years which is why its still around and is seeing more investment. You may not like it, but it doesn’t take big volumes to turn a profit when you have high ATPs and low incentives and you’re sharing platform development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 It makes sense for me that the Continental could be redesigned in 2020 onto the CD6 architecture along with Mustang and MKZ replacement at Flat Rock as rmc523 said. But I don't understand why they would go ahead with the Shelby GT500 variant of this current generation for 2019 model year if there will already be a new era of Mustang in 2020 (or 2021 whichever it's calendar year or model year in 2020). It would have been easier to keep producing the GT350 for 2019 with some mods until the new era in which the GT500 version of that new era could be debut along with the next GT350. Unless Ford intends on the new GT500 to be a 1-year or 2-year production run.But regardless of my confusion, it sure is exciting times for Ford and Lincoln from now through the next 18 months or so. There will be new Explorer/Aviator coming soon and possibly the concept shown very soon. The Transit and Transit Connect should have the updated-for-2019 model year revealed soon along with the next Transit variant as presented by Ford in Germany recently where they said there would be another Transit variant coming for North America. Possibly the Transit Custom as there were test mules spotted in Detroit a few times the past couple years or so. I think it could be debut/announced at the upcoming Work Truck Show in Indianapolis in March as the site does say that Ford has an announcement coming for that show. The next Focus will be revealed at separate event of its own in April so that's something else to look forward to. There is still the unknown regarding the Fusion on whether it's continuing-in-name-only, redesigned, or dropped altogether. The Fiesta is gone for sure as well as Flex but Taurus is apparently soldering on for 2019 as I seen order guide for it posted here. Then of course the Ranger is coming a year from now along with Bronco year after next (meaning we should at least be seeing the Bronco concept likely at Detroit Auto Show 2019 if not sooner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Right, which wouldn't be for another 4 years at earliest (2017 --> 2023) , unless they do something crazy and skip a refresh and do an early redesign on CD6. They probably should consider doing something crazy. The media is complaining that Ford's sales are falling off because they have too much stale product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 It makes sense for me that the Continental could be redesigned in 2020 onto the CD6 architecture along with Mustang and MKZ replacement at Flat Rock as rmc523 said. But I don't understand why they would go ahead with the Shelby GT500 variant of this current generation for 2019 model year if there will already be a new era of Mustang in 2020 (or 2021 whichever it's calendar year or model year in 2020). It would have been easier to keep producing the GT350 for 2019 with some mods until the new era in which the GT500 version of that new era could be debut along with the next GT350. Unless Ford intends on the new GT500 to be a 1-year or 2-year production run. GT500 has always been a limited run model. No sense in breaking that pattern. Then of course the Ranger is coming a year from now along with Bronco year after next (meaning we should at least be seeing the Bronco concept likely at Detroit Auto Show 2019 if not sooner). Bronco May or may not be delayed a year. Im trying to find out more but that program is almost as secretive as the GT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 They probably should consider doing something crazy. The media is complaining that Ford's sales are falling off because they have too much stale product. Outside of F-series they arent exactly wrong.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 GT500 has always been a limited run model. No sense in breaking that pattern. The S197 era of Mustang was from 2005-2014 but the Shelby GT500 started for the 2007 and lasted until 2014. Wasn't such a limited production run for the S197. The Shelby GT350 started with a few units in 2015 for the S550 and full production in 2016 and still today. I guess they gotta have the GT500 along with the Bullitt for the 2019 year of S550 as to keep the hype going. I'm now wondering if it is indeed the 2021 model year that the CD6 of Mustang starts in 2020 calendar year at which it makes sense for the GT500 to be two model years. I'm surprised that Ford has managed to keep the Bronco project secretive so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 It was already in development before they shortened the timeframe for the new model. And the drivetrain should transfer directly over to the new one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Bronco May or may not be delayed a year. Im trying to find out more but that program is almost as secretive as the GT. I have a very good friend who is a VP for a vendor on that project and we spoke the other day. He didn't say anything about it being delayed, but just said he was very disappointed in the looks. Said it is very boring-and he has seen it in person. Apparently much of the engineering work is being handled both in Australia and Thailand. Edited February 3, 2018 by kyle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 So I had this crazy thought.....which would make the suicide doors comment make sense, though the refresh thing was still wrong, but being for a redesign. Mustang is set to receive its hybrid system for 2020, alongside a new F-150 (sharing the hybrid powerpack), which could support it possibly being new for 2020. What if they're going to rip up FRAP next year and launch a new "MKZ", next gen Conti (with suicide doors), and next-gen Mustang all at once for 2020 at a revamped FRAP CD6 plant? And then whatever AV they're developing could also ride on CD6-based platform (I think the AV is still going there, right?). Would you like an AV/Everest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The S197 era of Mustang was from 2005-2014 but the Shelby GT500 started for the 2007 and lasted until 2014. Wasn't such a limited production run for the S197. The Shelby GT350 started with a few units in 2015 for the S550 and full production in 2016 and still today. I guess they gotta have the GT500 along with the Bullitt for the 2019 year of S550 as to keep the hype going. I'm now wondering if it is indeed the 2021 model year that the CD6 of Mustang starts in 2020 calendar year at which it makes sense for the GT500 to be two model years. I'm surprised that Ford has managed to keep the Bronco project secretive so far. Yeah, I"m starting to think Farley meant 2020 calendar year, which would mean 2021 MY for next gen MKZ/Conti/Mustang (+hybrid)/F-150 (+hybrid). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) At events, Ford always talks in calendar years unless the presenter expressly says model year.... On GT500 being limited production, that is true in the sense that the engines are hand built on their own special line and that limits the quantities that can be supplied in a given year rather than limit on total builds. Edited February 4, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) I have a very good friend who is a VP for a vendor on that project and we spoke the other day. He didn't say anything about it being delayed, but just said he was very disappointed in the looks. Said it is very boring-and he has seen it in person. Apparently much of the engineering work is being handled both in Australia and Thailand. T6 Home room is Ford Asia pacific ED in Geelong Australia, developing Everest and Bronco versions has been known about for years. The styling of Bronco comes from North America and will be different to Everest in the sense of a Re-skin, if they didn't change Ranger much, you can bet Bronco will be changed just enough to get past the accountants. Remember, Ford dragged its feet on Ranger, it's almost a grudge introduction so you can bet that Bronco is the high profit SUV that adds more cream to the project. This is Ford thinking it can equal Colorado sales and match Trailblazer. Edited February 4, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I have a very good friend who is a VP for a vendor on that project and we spoke the other day. He didn't say anything about it being delayed, but just said he was very disappointed in the looks. Said it is very boring-and he has seen it in person. Apparently much of the engineering work is being handled both in Australia and Thailand. I had known that the engineering work was done in Australia as jpd80 said for the Bronco and Everest along with Ranger. I remember someone here saying that they were at one time wanting to style the new one similar to the 1973 Bronco. I can't remember if it was that one that was supposedly rejected by the higher ups or it the 1973 styling is a go. It is possible that your friend was disappointed in styling and looks because he was expecting this '1973 styling' of the classic look but that Ford's proceeded design was a bit bland. As if maybe Ford is playing it safe with the styling by making it recognizable but not too much difference in styling so far apart from the Everest as to not upset bean counters. Did you friend mention the number of doors he has seen on the new Bronco? I am sure by 95% that there will definitely be a 4-door to compete with Jeep Wrangler Unlimited which is necessary to stay competitive in today's market which I'm willing to accept (I'm a Bronco purist) but does he know whether or not there is a 2-door model in the works? At least in the sense of low-volume production of 2-door model could be done for the purists out there while allowing the 4-door model to bring in the profits for it. The design and engineering could allow 2-door and 4-door in a modular sense in that both could be built on the same assembly line. I am not a factory worker nor engineer so do not know much about how the industry work except for the basics. Still looking forward to see what will happen in the next 18 months from Ford and Lincoln. I'm just counting down the days until February 8th which is press day of Chicago to see what Ford will reveal, that is if nothing gets leaked to the press or revealed before then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 They posted the blueprints for the layout of the Ranger in the plant last week. They arent changing anything with the door line so I dont think a 2 door Bronco is likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StangBang Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) They probably should consider doing something crazy. The media is complaining that Ford's sales are falling off because they have too much stale product.Ford has a rich history of letting product go stale. Then they wonder why sales fall off. It's not that people don't want to buy their vehicles. People want to buy NEW vehicles, as in updated fresh innovative designs, not freshly minted. It's "magical" how the new Navigator is selling. It might just be due to the fact that it doesn't look like a 20 year old vehicle with only a couple of facelifts. Edited February 4, 2018 by StangBang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 If it can't survive on it's own, it can't be self sustaining. Like a parasite. A leach. A waste of resources and investment. Thanks for agreeing with me. Take away F-Series and what at Ford could survive on its own? Maybe Fusion and Explorer? All the others barely make money so theyd be dead with sharing costs on the over arching business model with trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Thats ridiculous. Fusion/MKZ, Edge/MKX, Escape/MKC, Expy/Navi/Conti, Transit/Transit Connect and Mustang are most certainly profitable. Edited February 4, 2018 by akirby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Ford has a rich history of letting product go stale. Then they wonder why sales fall off. It's not that people don't want to buy their vehicles. People want to buy NEW vehicles, as in updated fresh innovative designs, not freshly minted. It's "magical" how the new Navigator is selling. It might just be due to the fact that it doesn't look like a 20 year old vehicle with only a couple of facelifts. The Navigator looks amazing. I stopped by my Lincoln dealer today and they had one out front. They are closed on Sunday, so I didn't get to sit in it. I really wanted to have a look at the Continentals, since I haven't actually seen one in person until today. They don't seem to look as impressive as I expected and certainly smaller. I'm a lot more impressed with the Expedition and Navigator. Edited February 4, 2018 by MKX1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The Continental does not have much showroom presence. I was underwhelmed the first time I saw one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) ...I really wanted to have a look at the Continentals, since I haven't actually seen one in person until today. They don't seem to look as impressive as I expected and certainly smaller. I'm a lot more impressed with the Expedition and Navigator. The Continental does not have much showroom presence. I was underwhelmed the first time I saw one, too. I'm really curious what COLORS the Continentals were (& the background of the showrooms' colors) just-imho, some kind of high-contrast might make a big difference Edited February 4, 2018 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jqa1824 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Like many cars, the Continental has FAR more presence in bright/deep red, blue, and black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StangBang Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The Navigator looks amazing. I stopped by my Lincoln dealer today and they had one out front. They are closed on Sunday, so I didn't get to sit in it. I really wanted to have a look at the Continentals, since I haven't actually seen one in person until today. They don't seem to look as impressive as I expected and certainly smaller. I'm a lot more impressed with the Expedition and Navigator. Nothing about the Continental impresses me. It's a cheap knock-off of an older Bentley design as much as the Kia Amanti was a cheap-knock off of a Lincoln Town Car design. I would better appreciate a Continental with some sort of tie to it's past when it was a distinguished elegant marque of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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