jasonj80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 This could be the beginning of the end of auto production in Canada. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/11/reuters-america-gm-warns-canadian-union-it-could-wind-down-striking-suv-plant.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I generally like Jerry Dias. He's definitely got more balls than Dennis Williams does, but I think he overplayed his hand here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The strike has been fueled by union opposition to the North American Free Trade Agreement. So the strike is fueled by something outside of the company's control. "GM just told us today that they are going to ramp up production in Mexico," Unifor President Jerry Dias said by phone from Washington. "They have declared war on Canada." Sounds to me like the union declared war on the company, not the other way around. The company is just protecting itself. I don't know the full story (you know, his side, her side, and the truth), but it seems like the union and its members have shot themselves in the foot here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Sounds to me like the union declared war on the company, not the other way around. Exactly. GM didn't lock them out of the factory - they walked out on their own. Reminds me of the company in NY that told its workers if you go on strike we'll have no choice but to close the business. They couldn't afford the strike and they couldn't keep the business afloat if they gave in to their demands. Striking against a plant that makes a vehicle that is already in production elsewhere is just stupid. Suicide by union. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) I generally like Jerry Dias. He's definitely got more balls than Dennis Williams does, but I think he overplayed his hand here. He's asking for something that no company would ever agree too; After watching him in an interview I don't think he realizes that. Sad that even more people will lose their jobs, esp at the suppliers around. The other issue is that he doesn't really care what happens, He will still have his job and even better for him gets to use those employees and such as pawns in a political statement with the on going NAFTA re-negotiation. He won't have to deal wit the same thing the line worker that makes $35/hour and is now going to be making $20 if he/she/X (it is Canada we're talking about) can even find a job. Hopefully he is smart enough for a "breakthrough" happening this weekend, there is some basic thing to blow smoke up the employees a**** on the issue that they got something for striking and say we tried real hard on the other issues and they will "continue to work with us" and they hold a vote. If the Union digs in, or there is a 'No' vote I see it going to Mexico and severances packages by the end of the year. Even if there is a backlash against GM for closing it and they lose 25% of the volume they sell in Canada it would be 67,000 units for the year, and I don't think it would be anywhere close to a 25% drop. Edited October 12, 2017 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) I'm not surprised that GM wants to bring this to a head but did it knowingly provoke strike action by UNIFOR in the first place. It just seems odd that UNIFOR singled out one GM Canada plant for strike action and no other automakers in Canada. and now the naked threat of get back to work or we'll shut down the plant - sounds too much like chess for this to be anything but a sucker play on UNIFOR to justify closing that plant. Edited October 12, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) I'm not surprised that GM wants to bring this to a head but did it knowingly provoke strike action by UNIFOR in the first place. It just seems odd that UNIFOR singled out one GM Canada plant for strike action and no other automakers in Canada. and now the naked threat of get back to work or we'll shut down the plant - sounds too much like chess for this to be anything but a sucker play on UNIFOR to justify closing that plant. It is actually the opposite of that; UNIFOR is using GM as a pawn to show manufacturing moving things to Mexico. The NAFTA retiming played in perfect to this for UNIFOR to make a point. UNIFOR is willing to kill the GM plant for this point. They know this is the middle of the end for Canadian Auto Manufacturing, it is going the same direction and play book as Australia over the next 10 years. This gives them the opportunity to paint GM as a bad company better than they could in time when GM closes its Canadian operations and GM says manufacturing has changed and streamlined and we don't need this many plants. GM CAMI plant is under a different contract than the regular GM Canada contact, their contracts were up last year CAMI is this year. GM did 800 million (CDN) in upgrades to the plant in the past year to launch the new Equinox and looked to be around for a while as a plant. What the union is asking for is that they be the lead plant and that all production would have to stop in Mexico before GM could eliminate any person at the CAMI facility among other things. No company would ever agree to that in a vehicle that is made in multiple locations. CAMI is upset that the Terrain went exclusively to Mexico as well as that GM has nothing going on at other plants in Canada with the last contract. UNIFOR backs the NDP in Canada, not the Liberals so they can make the Liberals look bad in the next election too. The NDP is going to scream that Canada got a bad deal with the renegotiated NAFTA Edited October 12, 2017 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) GM, Unifor reach tentative deal at Ontario Chevy Equinox plant October 13, 2017 @ 8:36 pm Automotive News staff Thttp://www.autonews.com/article/20171013/OEM01/171019739/gm-unifor-reach-tentative-deal-at-ontario-chevy-equinox-plant General Motors of Canada has reached a tentative deal with striking members of the Unifor union after a monthlong strike at a plant that makes the Chevrolet Equinox. The agreement will now go to Unifor members for a ratification vote, GM said in a statement Friday. The deal comes a day after the Government of Ontario urged the two parties to immediately resolve the strike following a threat by GM to move all Equinox production to Mexico. Edited October 14, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Sounds like the GM bluff call worked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Sounds like the GM bluff call worked. Yep, this is typical GM negotiation tactic and while Ford has its faults, I don't believe that it would hold workers to ransom like this. I go back to GM moving Terrain production to Mexico, reducing plant numbers and then introduce new Equinox knowing a new UNIFOR contract is due. This was a provocation on UNIFOR from get go. With the current political climate, I'd be very concerned about Mexican plants if certain officials follow through and tear up NAFTA.....Just sayin' Edited October 14, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 With the current political climate, I'd be very concerned about Mexican plants if certain officials follow through and tear up NAFTA.....Just sayin' Will never happen, I wouldnt be concerned about just the Mexican plants I would be concerned for the economy and industry as a whole. Ford and probably GM wouldn't survive without help from the goverment among many other companies. Vehicles would sky rocket in cost as the supplier base would implode, there would be mass layoffs that would ripple though the economy, which would cause a housing price collapse. It would get so ugly so fast on so many levels and even if they said oh s*** and tried to put it back together after 6 months it would take 20+ years to rebuild it. Dont get me wrong there are issues with NAFTA - Canadian dairy imports, the maple syrup cartel, sugar, corn and lumber being some of them but they wont tear it up and everyone walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Will never happen, I wouldnt be concerned about just the Mexican plants I would be concerned for the economy and industry as a whole. Ford and probably GM wouldn't survive without help from the goverment among many other companies. Vehicles would sky rocket in cost as the supplier base would implode, there would be mass layoffs that would ripple though the economy, which would cause a housing price collapse. It would get so ugly so fast on so many levels and even if they said oh s*** and tried to put it back together after 6 months it would take 20+ years to rebuild it. Dont get me wrong there are issues with NAFTA - Canadian dairy imports, the maple syrup cartel, sugar, corn and lumber being some of them but they wont tear it up and everyone walk away. No but they are talking about ending NAFTA and just doing US - Canada Blateral agreement. The moment I read that I thought about Ford shifted investment away from Mexico. Edit, off topic politics removed.. Edited October 14, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) No but they are talking about ending NAFTA and just doing US - Canada Blateral agreement. The moment I read that I thought about Ford shifted investment away from Mexico. Post deleted. Edited October 14, 2017 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Post deleted. Edited October 14, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 He's asking for something that no company would ever agree too; After watching him in an interview I don't think he realizes that. Sad that even more people will lose their jobs, esp at the suppliers around. The other issue is that he doesn't really care what happens, He will still have his job and even better for him gets to use those employees and such as pawns in a political statement with the on going NAFTA re-negotiation. He won't have to deal wit the same thing the line worker that makes $35/hour and is now going to be making $20 if he/she/X (it is Canada we're talking about) can even find a job. Hopefully he is smart enough for a "breakthrough" happening this weekend, there is some basic thing to blow smoke up the employees a**** on the issue that they got something for striking and say we tried real hard on the other issues and they will "continue to work with us" and they hold a vote. If the Union digs in, or there is a 'No' vote I see it going to Mexico and severances packages by the end of the year. Even if there is a backlash against GM for closing it and they lose 25% of the volume they sell in Canada it would be 67,000 units for the year, and I don't think it would be anywhere close to a 25% drop. Meanwhile, just a few minutes drive down that highway, Toyota can't keep up with demand for the RAV4 at their Cambridge facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Self-moderation - love it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Meanwhile, just a few minutes drive down that highway, Toyota can't keep up with demand for the RAV4 at their Cambridge facility. Amazing and even Toyota has admitted that it expects more Camry sales to transfer to RAV4 Toyota must be rubbing their hands with glee.... I can't wait to see GM get back to it and produce as many Equinox as possible, I think there a lot of sales depth still to be realized with that better sized product.... I hope Ford follows suit and makes the next Escape bigger / longer wheelbase like a CX-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 CX-7 Wheelbase is ~2.5" longer than the Escape. Equinox wheelbase is ~6.5" longer than the Escape. Equinox wheelbase is .3" longer than the Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Amazing and even Toyota has admitted that it expects more Camry sales to transfer to RAV4 Toyota must be rubbing their hands with glee.... Their top selling model in Canada. Edited October 14, 2017 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) CX-7 Wheelbase is ~2.5" longer than the Escape. Equinox wheelbase is ~6.5" longer than the Escape. Equinox wheelbase is .3" longer than the Edge. New Equinox Wheelbase is 107.3" Escape Wheelbase is105.9" CX-7 wheelbase is 108.3" CD4 Edge Wheelbase is 112" Ford could easily add another 2" to the wheelbase and make rear legroom better, that would make it a lot more appealing to today's compact utility buyers Edited October 14, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 It would certainly make the argument for an Escape a lot easier than a Fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Amazing and even Toyota has admitted that it expects more Camry sales to transfer to RAV4 Toyota must be rubbing their hands with glee.... I can't wait to see GM get back to it and produce as many Equinox as possible, I think there a lot of sales depth still to be realized with that better sized product.... I hope Ford follows suit and makes the next Escape bigger / longer wheelbase like a CX-7 We've already seen next-gen Escape mules that have been stretched a few inches both in length and width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 The CX-7 doesn't even exist anymore; and hasn't for about 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 The CX-7 doesn't even exist anymore; and hasn't for about 5 years. I think he was just using it as a reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 http://www.autonews.com/article/20171016/OEM01/171019724/unifor-ratifies-contract-at-gms-equinox-plant-in-canada-86-of?cciid=email-autonews-blastJob security was the union’s biggest demand during contract talks. Unifor had demanded the plant be named -- in writing -- the lead producer of the Equinox. That means if GM needs more of the compact crossover, CAMI would be first to get the additional work, but if sales slowed, production would be scaled back first at a pair of plants that also produce the Equinox in Mexico. Unifor Local 88 President Dan Borthwick told Automotive News Canada the new deal does not include such a letter pledging jobs will be maintained at the assembly plant. The contract also lacks promises of new product or new jobs, Borthwick said. Instead, there is what the union considers stronger language surrounding job security. The union said that the contract, if ratified, would make it more costly for GM Canada to close the plant -- about $290 million vs. $190 million in the previous contract. “It’s more of a penalty for the employer to close the plant now. It’s going to cost them $100 million more,” Unifor Local 88 President Dan Borthwick said.So the Union had the workers go on strike for a month and got them nothing. (100million for GM/Ford is nothing - it would be about ~1.1% of the profit from 2016)The signing bonus is basically their lost wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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