silvrsvt Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I do wonder if the dumbed down C car imported from China shouldn't have been the next Escort. There are limits on "Cheapness" that Ford can get away with in the market. Certain options need an existing wiring harness for stuff like backup cameras, heated seats, etc that you can eliminate on car like the Escort that was designed at a low price point for emerging economies that don't demand that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I do wonder if the dumbed down C car imported from China shouldn't have been the next Escort. From what's been gleaned from spy shots and intel, NG Focus would seem to be answering a lot of the issues facing the current focus - weight, better economy, better internal packaging asn more rear leg room. A lot of what's been learned with escort and competitors like Corrola and Cruze is being baked into the next gen Focus. That the car comes from an extremely low cost production centre is an added bonus to the mix and will give Ford more room to price accordingly.without fear of insufficient profit. I would sooner see $1 Billion in up fromt production savings being spent on more US product and being lost in the clatter of keeping Focus American made to a buying segment that's price.sensitive. Edited June 22, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 The lack of logic kills me. Women be logical? Inconceivable! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 is it me or do women tend to be color centric / specific in choosing which vehicles they do and don't like.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 What a difference a decade makes. After the 2008 financial meltdown, Ford and the other domestics were being lambasted for not offering enough fuel-sippers in their respective line-ups. The shift to small cars was supposed to be permanent. But, just like they always have, Americans drifted back to larger vehicles when the economy began recovering and fuel prices eased. It helps that companies, including Ford, have since produced more fuel-efficient crossovers (I'd wager that the Escape has probably stolen more sales from the Focus than any other vehicle). The long-term switch wasn't from body-on-frame Explorers and Trailblazers to Focuses and Cruzes; it was from the old-school SUVs to more efficient crossovers. Americans are reverting to form, and viewing anything smaller than the Accord-Camry-Fusion-Malibu-Sonata as a small - i.e., cheap - car, with the major emphasis on affordability, economy and reliability. If there is any demand for a "premium" small car, it has been fulfilled by the new Civic, which is both roomier and more expensive than the prior generation. But the rumor has been that Honda still loses money on this Civic. The current Civic shares a basic platform with the new CR-V and soon-to-debut Accord, so I can't believe that the company will continue to lose money on it (if Honda ever did). Ford blew a major opportunity with this Focus, between the cramped interior and problematic automatic. We were recently shopping for a new car, and both the cramped back seat and potentially troublesome automatic crossed the Focus off of our list. Which is a shame, because the car looks good and has a nice combination of ride and handling. Maybe the next generation can address those concerns and still make money for Ford. So, you looked at the Focus and decided NOT to buy....did you buy the Honda which you praised? You apparently don't currently own any Ford products... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I think reality is the vast majority of people don't know where their car is built, and if the car fits the price, quality, and style that they want, they won't really care either. I just don't understand where you're coming from. It's not as if every single vehicle Ford has ever made to this point has been made in America and now they're suddenly making something somewhere else. They've made products elsewhere for most of their history, as have other brands. There are no more wholly origin companies, except for maybe some of the Chinese brands. (Meaning there are no major car companies around the world that are exclusive to their home market. The point that you missed was the long held fact of Ford being a home grown car company. It was pride in knowing we were different than the competition who mostly transplanted their operations in our country to assemble their foreign vehicles here....and initially receive incentives and tax abatement to help them. Ford established more integrity with buyers by refusing to go bankrupt like GM and the former Chrysler. It was our image and history that made us different. I felt proud about that. It's like Japan....they protect their car market. They won't allow many competitors to assemble vehicles in Japan. They charge higher insurance rates on any buyer who buys non Japanese cars. They have a loyal buyer base. The Japanese take pride and have loyalty with buying Japanese cars. I think Ford had that to a much larger extent in the past...but it's obvious the infusion of so many competitors in our country has changed the playing field. Ford seems to think the only way to future sales is announcements like the Chinese decision. It's more of being a discouraged Ford loyalist, who never..ever bought a foreign car....who came from a strong Ford family and now reads about the new Ford direction. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Oh for Pete's sake - your MKZ was made in Mexico. This is ONE vehicle and I still say it's more about factory capacity than anything else especially given the comment about variable costs. Your definition of Ford as an American mfr is short-sighted since Ford was doing business in Europe as far back as 1812. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 is it me or do women tend to be color centric / specific in choosing which vehicles they do and don't like.... I've noticed that about my wife...she prefers dark greens and blues. We got a White Platnium Escape and she likes it. The thing that annoys the hell out of me is my wife was beating me up about Black wheels (had my Mustang wheels plasti coated in a dark Gun metal and like some of the black rims on the new Mustang) and how much she doesn't like them prior to shopping for her Escape. She almost got a White Platnium Escape SE with sport package on it (2WD only..wanted AWD) and now she says how much likes the black wheels on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 is it me or do women tend to be color centric / specific in choosing which vehicles they do and don't like.... I've noticed that about my wife...she prefers dark greens and blues. We got a White Platnium Escape and she likes it. The thing that annoys the hell out of me is my wife was beating me up about Black wheels (had my Mustang wheels plasti coated in a dark Gun metal and like some of the black rims on the new Mustang) and how much she doesn't like them prior to shopping for her Escape. She almost got a White Platnium Escape SE with sport package on it (2WD only..wanted AWD) and now she says how much likes the black wheels on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrand Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Oh for Pete's sake - your MKZ was made in Mexico. This is ONE vehicle and I still say it's more about factory capacity than anything else especially given the comment about variable costs. Your definition of Ford as an American mfr is short-sighted since Ford was doing business in Europe as far back as 1812. You also miss the point...but it's impossible to debate....! However, I wasn't aware that Ford was building cars back in 1812....I never heard that before! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) .. Edited June 22, 2017 by silvrsvt doublepost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 You also miss the point...but it's impossible to debate....! However, I wasn't aware that Ford was building cars back in 1812....I never heard that before! They were way ahead of their time.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 jpd80: The Buick Envision has been selling well, but the reviews have been lukewarm, at best, from what I've read. Even Motor Trend wasn't too thrilled with the Envision, and that magazine hasn't been overly harsh on brand-new vehicles. bdegrand: We had a 2005 Focus SE sedan (235,000 miles) and a 2003 Honda Accord EX four-cylinder sedan (269,000 miles). Last July my wife traded the Focus for a 2014 Escape SE that was coming off lease. It looked brand-new and had less than 4,000 miles on the odometer. So far we like it. In May of this year I was looking to trade the Accord. I looked at a Focus hatchback, but with two growing children, the back seat simply wasn't big enough, and I was suspicious of the automatic (wife doesn't want to drive a stick shift). I bought a 2017 Honda Civic EX-T sedan. So, yes, we do have a Ford parked in the driveway. But, as with an increasing number of people, it's a crossover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thank you for buying a Civic.. they are mad in Indiana.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 The point that you missed was the long held fact of Ford being a home grown car company. It was pride in knowing we were different than the competition who mostly transplanted their operations in our country to assemble their foreign vehicles here....and initially receive incentives and tax abatement to help them. Ford established more integrity with buyers by refusing to go bankrupt like GM and the former Chrysler. It was our image and history that made us different. I felt proud about that. It's like Japan....they protect their car market. They won't allow many competitors to assemble vehicles in Japan. They charge higher insurance rates on any buyer who buys non Japanese cars. They have a loyal buyer base. The Japanese take pride and have loyalty with buying Japanese cars. I think Ford had that to a much larger extent in the past...but it's obvious the infusion of so many competitors in our country has changed the playing field. Ford seems to think the only way to future sales is announcements like the Chinese decision. It's more of being a discouraged Ford loyalist, who never..ever bought a foreign car....who came from a strong Ford family and now reads about the new Ford direction. It is what it is. Your logic escapes me completely. Literally the only thing that has changed is that Ford has said that these cars aren't profitable when made here and we don't have any capacity to build them over there, so we're going to build them in our plant in this other place. That's it. What that has to do with not taking a bailout, or the insularity of the Japanese home market, or the price of tea in China, I have absolutely no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I used to have a 2002 Explorer Sport and she refused to drive it unless she absolutely had to. In the 4 years I had it she drove it maybe 3 times. My wife would be the opposite of yours. She would drag me out of the Ferrari so she could drive it herself. Update: we currently have a 2017 Escape as a loaner while the Focus is in the shop for yet another warranty repair (no it's not transmission related). She needs it tonight so I'll get her opinion when she gets back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I don't think we will get one because the car seat still portrudes into the back of the front seats more than I would like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 A Flex is an excellent kid hauler. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I don't think we will get one because the car seat still portrudes into the back of the front seats more than I would like Just go ahead and buy an Edge. You'll get there sooner or later. Too much kid crap to haul around in a sedan or even a small hatchback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 A Flex is an excellent kid hauler. A friend has one. She didn't like it. Way too big for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just go ahead and buy an Edge. You'll get there sooner or later. Too much kid crap to haul around in a sedan or even a small hatchback. I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but I'm going to have to resurrect the salesman in me to convince her. I'm not kidding, even a Fusion is barely small enough for her to be comfortable with. As for kid crap, that's what the Ranger is for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 A Flex is an excellent kid hauler. I have heard the same from people who I know they have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just go ahead and buy an Edge. You'll get there sooner or later. Too much kid crap to haul around in a sedan or even a small hatchback. I agree. You can't have too much room when it comes to kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just go ahead and buy an Edge. You'll get there sooner or later. Too much kid crap to haul around in a sedan or even a small hatchback. Agree. If we didn't have 3, we'd probably have an Edge. It's the perfect size, but sitting 3 across is a bit small for kiddos and car seats. We may explore (no pun intended) an Edge next since the kids are all out of boosters. A friend has one. She didn't like it. Way too big for her. Yeah, figured as much based on your earlier comments. It is pretty big, but it's super for kids and a great highway cruiser. I have heard the same from people who I know they have them. We love ours. Nearly 9 years and 111k in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I bought an excursion when #2 came along. I figured why mess around, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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