jpd80 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well...ford should move ranger to mexico along with edge and escape..all cars to china...keep 2 uaw plants for f150 and close everything else down...bam..ford stock to 50bux Jim Hackett, is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I've been saying this for months, but nobody seems to agree with me. Strong rumors persist that the company wants to cut a shift in January, and keep it gone until the Bronco launches. That rumor started with November. Now it is January. But I am hearing that we will be full 2 shifts until May '18. And they are working on keeping it beyond that... This was today BTW. Lets face it, FRAP and MAP cutting shifts would put ALOT of people on the street.. In and out of the plants.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hermosillo and Cuautitlán are up for grabs... I guess Fusion will stay in Hermosillo and EcoSport will eventually make its way to Cuautitlán. That still leaves plenty of room for Escape/MKC and Transit Connect to take up residence in one of them. There is probably also room for another CUV. It seems pretty certain based on current trends that Ford will need a 2nd supply source for Escape/MKC to meet demand in North American markets... and Mexico seems like a good bet. Ford didn't introduce the 1.5EB during mid cycle refresh, it sure as hell not going to do that with another late cycle update. I think they will just stockpile a bunch of Focus at MAP before the line is shut down for retooling. Titanium is just a trim level... no reason to source it from Europe when China is able to that. The reason ST and RS may have to come from Europe is because those models likely won't be made in China. ST and RS have different drivetrain/engine combo than the regular Focus, and my guess is they will also have different key components like suspension i.e. Chinese Focus (by extension US Focus) will have Escort-like twist beam, while European Focus (and all performance models like ST) will probably retain IRS. Yeah, it was thought that Escape/MKC additional production would be added at the new San Luis whatever it's called plant. All I'm saying is that Ford seems to be making this up on the run, I don't know that they can stockpile enough Focus to get through - is the other shoe still to drop as in Ranger being pushed back? And I am a little shocked that none of the plan seems to have filtered through the regualr channels before the media got hold of it, could it be the new team not wasting money and resources on Focus ATM while concentrating on what must be done immediately.. And, if they cut a shift, there's no way that there will be any stockpile of Focus at the end, Setting aside the MAP plant workers for a moment (sorry fuzzy), would it entirely be a bad thing if Ford ran out of Focii to sell? With the transmission issues damaging it and Ford's reputation? I still think ranger needs to be slowed down...focus gone to china kinda points to any and all profitability is soley on f150 sales..no way i would want ranger gutting in to any f150 profitability..ford is really running from sub and compact passenger cars...not a dime to be made there.. What are you talking about? So a move to make small cars MORE profitable somehow means that profits will then come only from F-150? Well, they were building base Fusons there as overflow... We live in interesting times but think about it, that move would bring all the CD4 cars together and turn FRAP into a very busy three shift plant... we can hope anyway.. Is Ford starting to "run away" from Mexico investment? I'd say MKZ definitely moves to FRAP, but I think Fusion will stay in Mexico. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) It's one thing to have a niche model from a questionable nation, but the whole line?, really how much money Ford think thay saving from this?. Not good. Here's your answer, courtesy of Autonews: Ford to import U.S. Focus from China instead of Mexico - LINK Ford originally planned to move Focus production to a new, $1.6 billion plant in San Luis Potosi, Mexico, but the company canceled those plans in January, less than a year after announcing them. Ford then planned to build the cars at its existing plant in Hermosillo. Ford said at the time the move would save $500 million, and it now says building the car in China will save an additional $500 million, for a total savings of $1 billion in production costs. Edited June 21, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 That rumor started with November. Now it is January. But I am hearing that we will be full 2 shifts until May '18. And they are working on keeping it beyond that... This was today BTW. Lets face it, FRAP and MAP cutting shifts would put ALOT of people on the street.. In and out of the plants.. Haven't heard that yet, thanks! Committeeman keeps saying ask again in January. Kinda can't blame him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'd say that Focus is stinking up the books, has done so for a long time as evidenced by Ford again falling out of lock step with ROW power train and transmission upgrades and having no desire whatsoever to correct a glaring problem with the volume selling Powershift... Ford axed the last Ranger pick up because it was mostly $15K to $20K sales yet Focus is no different or in fact worse when you consider the $2,500 to $4,000 incentives currently applied. Its worse..ive seen 17 foci titaniums listed at near $15k after discounts...i wonder what the bigger picture is..is the consumer really that tapped out or is it that nobody cares about small cars anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well, I think it's generally the latter and the only reason you see the GMs hanging on is purely due to newer fresher product. Those incentives on Focus are a sure sign that it's now competing in a market where its going out backwards... The Autonews article I quoted above says that moving Focus to Mexico would have saved Ford $500 million and that moving to China will save them another $500 Million in production costs - that's not a small consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Its worse..ive seen 17 foci titaniums listed at near $15k after discounts...i wonder what the bigger picture is..is the consumer really that tapped out or is it that nobody cares about small cars anymore... IMO, a good looking vehicle. Marketing? Don't see much of that. Hmnn-wonder if that has anything to do with lousy numbers?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well, I think it's generally the latter and the only reason you see the GMs hanging on is purely due to newer fresher product. Those incentives on Focus are a sure sign that it's now competing in a market where its going out backwards... The Autonews article I quoted above says that moving Focus to Mexico would have saved Ford $500 million and that moving to China will save them another $500 Million in production costs - that's not a small consideration. I agree its huge cost savings..there is no way to build a profitable car for the masses in a uaw plant..hence they went to china....it really sucks cause i would like to buy american...but its almost impossible to find anything affordable that is built in detroit or michigan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So China builds Focus with dumbed down suspension while Europe keeps current suspension, and ships ST/RS here? If not for the PI I'm surprised they didn't dip thier toe in the water with the Taurus. Assuming this was in the works with Fields it was stupid to not announce before giving him the heave ho so as to allow him to take some stink with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I agree its huge cost savings..there is no way to build a profitable car for the masses in a uaw plant..hence they went to china....it really sucks cause i would like to buy american...but its almost impossible to find anything affordable that is built in detroit or michigan.... and yet Ford can build and sell Escape all day and all night with a starting price of $23K So China builds Focus with dumbed down suspension while Europe keeps current suspension, and ships ST/RS here? If not for the PI I'm surprised they didn't dip thier toe in the water with the Taurus. Assuming this was in the works with Fields it was stupid to not announce before giving him the heave ho so as to allow him to take some stink with him. Depends what happens with D3, explorer, the PIs and the current Taurus. While Taurus is joined at the hp with Explorer, I think things are nice and safe for Ford.. Who knows, Chinese exports may be the new play book for cars, Focus could be a toe in the water or just a one-off but now that it's out there, Ford can gauge the feedback on imports form China, maybe see if the resistance is just "noise". Edited June 21, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) So China builds Focus with dumbed down suspension while Europe keeps current suspension, and ships ST/RS here? If not for the PI I'm surprised they didn't dip thier toe in the water with the Taurus. Assuming this was in the works with Fields it was stupid to not announce before giving him the heave ho so as to allow him to take some stink with him. I wonder if Hackett will green light sending the Chinese Taurus here now? I mean if they're doing this with Focus, why not just bring Taurus over now? Guess that would depend on how far off CD6 is, and whether or not there's some sort of NA replacement for Taurus (whether it be a direct Taurus replacement or a RWD "Falcon/Thunderbird" indirect replacement. If it's a few years off, I say bring the Taurus over. If it's coming in another year or two, you may as well just keep the current one going and leave the Chinese one in China. Edited June 21, 2017 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 and yet Ford can build and sell Escape all day and all night with a starting price of $23K Depends what happens with D3, explorer, the PIs and the current Taurus. While Taurus is joined at the hp with Explorer, I think things are nice and safe for Ford.. Who knows, Chinese exports may be the new play book for cars, Focus could be a toe in the water or just a one-off but now that it's out there, Ford can gauge the feedback on imports form China, maybe see if the resistance is just "noise". Envision has been selling fairly well despite being Chinese-built. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 IMO, a good looking vehicle. Marketing? Don't see much of that. Hmnn-wonder if that has anything to do with lousy numbers?? They've never really marketed it all that heavily. They did one blitz of billboards locally when the 2012 came out for like 2 months, then one when the 2015 MCE came out for like 1 month and that's been all I've seen. No print media, no TV, very little internet and a bunch of billboards. That's a fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So China builds Focus with dumbed down suspension while Europe keeps current suspension, and ships ST/RS here? If not for the PI I'm surprised they didn't dip thier toe in the water with the Taurus. Assuming this was in the works with Fields it was stupid to not announce before giving him the heave ho so as to allow him to take some stink with him. I wonder if fields resisted the move to china and i wonder how much influence the furniture guy had in this decision...i understand getting as much production away from the uaw noose but still..damit we are all americans and china really is not somebody i care to trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I agree its huge cost savings..there is no way to build a profitable car for the masses in a uaw plant..hence they went to china....it really sucks cause i would like to buy american...but its almost impossible to find anything affordable that is built in detroit or michigan.... Mustang and Continental. GM builds the Malibu, CT6, CTS, ATS, Volt, Bolt, Cruze, Sonic, Camaro, and Impala all in UAW plants. Try harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Who knows, Chinese exports may be the new play book for cars, Focus could be a toe in the water or just a one-off but now that it's out there, Ford can gauge the feedback on imports form China, maybe see if the resistance is just "noise". This is honestly my main concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Envision has been selling fairly well despite being Chinese-built. The better question is how well would it be selling if it were not built in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I wonder if fields resisted the move to china and i wonder how much influence the furniture guy had in this decision...i understand getting as much production away from the uaw noose but still..damit we are all americans and china really is not somebody i care to trust Nor should you trust them. They have not earned any trust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Mustang and Continental. GM builds the Malibu, CT6, CTS, ATS, Volt, Bolt, Cruze, Sonic, Camaro, and Impala all in UAW plants. Try harder Yeah, i'm not buying into the fact that they can't be built here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Here's your answer, courtesy of Autonews: Yes they save $500 mill, but how much will that cost in the long run when Focus buyers turn into CruzeCivRolla buyers because they don't want a car "made in China"? (IMO I don't want a China car either). Not to mention possible quality and most importantly ordering/shipping issues. It's rhetorical questions but no doubt would be asked by buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Mustang and Continental. GM builds the Malibu, CT6, CTS, ATS, Volt, Bolt, Cruze, Sonic, Camaro, and Impala all in UAW plants. Try harder Add to that FCA builds all Chrysler,Ram (except Promaster city) and Dodge in UAW plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Add to that FCA builds all Chrysler,Ram (except Promaster city) and Dodge in UAW plants. True, however the troll's point was specifically cars, not trucks or crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Add to that FCA builds all Chrysler,Ram (except Promaster city) and Dodge in UAW plants. Heavy Duty Ram and Journey are built in Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Yes they save $500 mill, but how much will that cost in the long run when Focus buyers turn into CruzeCivRolla buyers because they don't want a car "made in China"? (IMO I don't want a China car either). Not to mention possible quality and most importantly ordering/shipping issues. It's rhetorical questions but no doubt would be asked by buyers.Saving a billion now to deploy elsewhere on trucks and utilities is of far more valuethan any future concern over compact sales from China and as said above, those Chinese sales sees to work for Buck. Edited June 21, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.