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Very Bad Germans


MY93SHO

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Companies like Ford don't import a lot of cars to Germany because they BUILD them there instead....GM just sells the whole she-bang off and exits....and FCA?? Well, they aren't really an "Auh-murican" brand in the first place, right Donald?

 

What...did your Maybach break down again?

Edited by twintornados
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I don't want to start a big pissing contest - but in general most Americans do not understand the damage done by "free trade". I wince every time I hear of an American company being bought by foreign enterprises. Sure - foreign corporations build products here, but the purpose is not employ more Americans, it is to make profit.

 

Those profits are instantly returned to the homeland where they are taxed there - or not. No Corporate tax on profits paid here to the USA.

This opens the door to many scenarios - for example; Korea can give Hyundai, Samsung, or LG big corporate tax breaks for the purpose of dominating the US market. Just look in the appliance section of Home Depot and what do you see? Once the market is dominated, they form a win-win tax situation with the Korean government at the expense of the USA.

 

This is why Japan has bullet trains, and Korea has some of the world's most modern infrastructure while in the USA our highways suck, our bridges are crumbling and we are desperate for $$ to fund projects. Meanwhile, the average American rationalizes driving a foreign car by saying: "...but my Camry was made in the USA..."

 

I support the personal liberty of Americans to make their choice. But I wish Americans were more nationalistic and concerned with the benefits to other Americans, rather than just what they want for themselves.

 

Go ahead let me have it - I am used to being called out. But I am right - and 20 years of anemic economic growth - fueled not by productivity but by massive debt and printed money prove it.

 

I am glad POTUS gets it. He probably can't do anything about it - but at least as a business man he gets it.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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"but at least as a business man he gets it."

 

As a business man he's barely average. He's a grifter. He knows how to BS, that's it.

The man was 70 before he found out Lincoln was a Republican.

Edited by MY93SHO
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A 35% tax on imports is nonsense but what this does is put focus on issues.

 

Without getting political here, it's up to the Republicans to show Trump a better way to achieve certain objectives

without all the collateral damage that would come from his whistle stop policies, he just plays to supporters and

upsets the business community by questioning established commercial agreements.

Edited by jpd80
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A 35% tax on imports is nonsense but what this does is put focus on issues.

 

 

Lowering the corporate tax rate would accomplish the same thing - give the home team some flexibility to compete against whatever corporate deals the foreign manufacturers are getting from their governments for the purpose of getting a competitive advantage in the world's largest consumer market.

 

I think he is a few moves ahead - that's just me and I don't want to argue. You may have your opinion and I respect it.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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and yet we see BMW X series made in USA, perhaps the issue is encouraging more production in North America.

 

Nope.

 

You know how the US basically lets the banking industry do whatever they want? Well, that's how Germany is with industry. Remember how nobody went to jail over the global financial crisis? Well, the equivalent to that was Germany deciding that VW had 'suffered enough' when they decided not to fine them for flouting assorted emissions regs for years.

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A 35% tax on imports is nonsense but what this does is put focus on issues.

 

Without getting political here, it's up to the Republicans to show Trump a better way to achieve certain objectives

without all the collateral damage that would come from his whistle stop policies, he just plays to supporters and

upsets the business community by questioning established commercial agreements.

Problem is, the Dems and GOP (and their predecessor parties) have had centuries to figure it out and do the right thing.

 

And they haven't.

 

Is it any wonder so many have voted for someone not a part of that establishment? Maybe DT can deliver. Maybe he can't. Maybe he's competent. Maybe he's not.

 

But he's not a career Washington parasite. I think thats what many voted for.

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I don't want to start a big pissing contest - but in general most Americans do not understand the damage done by "free trade". I wince every time I hear of an American company being bought by foreign enterprises. Sure - foreign corporations build products here, but the purpose is not employ more Americans, it is to make profit.

 

Those profits are instantly returned to the homeland where they are taxed there - or not. No Corporate tax on profits paid here to the USA.

This opens the door to many scenarios - for example; Korea can give Hyundai, Samsung, or LG big corporate tax breaks for the purpose of dominating the US market. Just look in the appliance section of Home Depot and what do you see? Once the market is dominated, they form a win-win tax situation with the Korean government at the expense of the USA.

 

This is why Japan has bullet trains, and Korea has some of the world's most modern infrastructure while in the USA our highways suck, our bridges are crumbling and we are desperate for $$ to fund projects. Meanwhile, the average American rationalizes driving a foreign car by saying: "...but my Camry was made in the USA..."

 

I support the personal liberty of Americans to make their choice. But I wish Americans were more nationalistic and concerned with the benefits to other Americans, rather than just what they want for themselves.

 

Go ahead let me have it - I am used to being called out. But I am right - and 20 years of anemic economic growth - fueled not by productivity but by massive debt and printed money prove it.

 

I am glad POTUS gets it. He probably can't do anything about it - but at least as a business man he gets it.

I have to agree with Kev-Mo on this. I don’t know enough about economics and international trade to argue the pros or cons of Trump’s views on trade either way, but I agree that we have no industrial policy in this country, and American consumers are probably the most self-centered, “me first” people in the world, with no cohesive sense of what’s in our national best interests. I lived in Germany for several years. The German sense of community and what’s best for their community country, culture and way of life are profound. Sure, call that socialism and inconsistent with American values, but it does help explain that deep pride that Germans have in their domestic industries that we simply lack in this country. I imagine Japan and S. Korea are similar in this sense. But, I don’t see this changing at all – Americans will continue to buy what they want, whenever they want, and sell out the country, damn the “costs” to the world’s export economies. Trump sees this and doesn’t like it either, but there’s nothing he can do about the American consumer’s mindset.

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And the flip side is that Ford (and GM) wouldn't be making vehicles with their current levels of quality, performance and value if Toyota and Honda hadn't scared the "you-know-what" out of them.

 

I remember the late 1970s and early 1980s...the Big Three were producing lots of junk, and would have continued to do so, if people hadn't had viable alternatives.

 

 

And our infrastructure isn't in trouble because someone drives a Camry instead of a Malibu. That is related to our total geographic size and lack of population density, which, in turn, drives the expense of various infrastructure projects - particularly transportation projects. It also determines whether some types of transportation systems are even viable for various areas.

 

We are a much larger country than Germany Japan and South Korea in total size, and with much lower population density. Our population density, for example, is about 1/6 that of Germany's population density. That means mass transit system will not be viable in most areas of this country without HUGE subsidies that would make even the most ardent liberals balk. (Note that areas in this country with dense population - such as the New York City or Philadelphia metropolitan areas - are served by mass transit systems consisting of bus and rail lines.) It also means our roads will be more expensive to build, because they most cover greater distances.

 

In Germany, people consider a three-hour car trip to be the beginning of a week-long vacation. Here it might be a day trip to somewhere.

Edited by grbeck
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And the flip side is that Ford (and GM) wouldn't be making vehicles with their current levels of quality, performance and value if Toyota and Honda hadn't scared the "you-know-what" out of them.

 

I remember the late 1970s and early 1980s...the Big Three were producing lots of junk, and would have continued to do so, if people hadn't had viable alternatives.

 

 

I don't disagree with you on this. Competition does make things much better.

 

Unfortunately it's hard to convince people that the domestic auto manufacturers quality is now comprable to the Japanese, because many people don't do a lot of research to find out.

Edited by tbone
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At the end of the day, the U.S. auto market will never go back to the time when GM had about 45 percent of the new-vehicle market, Ford 23 percent and Chrysler 16 percent. The "First-Tier Seven" - GM, Ford, FCA, Honda, Hyundai-Kia, Nissan and Toyota - will remain important players.

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Competition is good but it needs to be a level playing field. I don't think Japan allows the US to import vehicles there or if they do it's limited and controlled. Consumers seem incapable of understanding the impact of their buying decisions on their own lives. They'll buy online and from Walmart then be completely shocked that their neighbor has to shut down their local small business.

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I would argue that Japan's policies have hurt the Japanese more than the U.S. The country's economy has been in the doldrums for over 20 years, and the population has been declining for several years, as young people are reluctant to marry and have children. Toyota and Honda depend more on the North American market than on the Japanese market at this point, and their investments in each country show this.

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At the end of the day, the U.S. auto market will never go back to the time when GM had about 45 percent of the new-vehicle market, Ford 23 percent and Chrysler 16 percent. The "First-Tier Seven" - GM, Ford, FCA, Honda, Hyundai-Kia, Nissan and Toyota - will remain important players.

And how does Hyundai-Kia manage to load up inexpensive cars with modern features? Because they pay no US Corporate tax, and the Korean government gives them incentives to go out and grab as much US market share as they can - all at the expense of US Automakers- and in the long run, the expense of all Americans.

 

The free market notion of "...who cares, we just get better cars..." is self destructing, and our anemic economy that relies on massive consumer debt to fuel consumption is proof.

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