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silvrsvt

2019 Focus testing on ice

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We should also see the same three-cylinder EcoBoost engine used on the Focus ST

 

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Akirby, I had that same thought.

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Akirby, I had that same thought.

 

Was it supposed to say Fiesta ST?

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Yes, Focus ST should have read Fiesta ST as the new Dragon I-3 is only produced in 1.2 and 1.5 liter units

and will replace the old Sigma 1.5/1.6 I-4 engines.

 

I can see now why Ford NA resisted changing away from the basic 2.0 DI until this coming product cycle.

New technology and efficiency delivered by the EB I-3 and the new 9-speed auto adds up to a powerful

combination....that is of course unless Ford persists with DSG and chooses a new wet clutch 7-speed gearbox.

 

interesting times ahead...

Edited by jpd80

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I thought they might have ment that the new Fiesta ST engine would be used in non-ST Foci

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I thought they might have ment that the new Fiesta ST engine would be used in non-ST Foci

That makes sense. The current Focus gets the current 1.5EB everywhere else but here in North America. Since production of the 2.0 we get is staying in production (according to the 2015 UAW contract) for a while longer I doubt we will get the new engine here.

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I thought they might have ment that the new Fiesta ST engine would be used in non-ST Foci

That's how I interpret it. Whether their reporting is accurate, though, I don't know.

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At the moment, the 1.5 EB Focus is rated at ~180 HP, so it's slightly below that of the 197 Hp Fiesta ST.

 

I can see Ford protecting the Fiesta ST slightly by giving it a unique power setting over the regular Focus 1.5EB.

Edited by jpd80

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that is of course unless Ford persists with DSG and chooses a new wet clutch 7-speed gearbox.

 

God forbid...

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that is of course unless Ford persists with DSG and chooses a new wet clutch 7-speed gearbox.

 

God forbid...

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I can see now why Ford NA resisted changing away from the basic 2.0 DI ...

IMHO, the 2.0L NA DI use in the US was a bad decision. DI's main claim to fame is the ability to run lean. But we all know that a lean engine makes a lot of NOx (I actually worked on the PROCO development team), so this capability can not be used in the US.

 

So we have an engine that is saddled with the extra cost of 4 DI injectors and a special high pressure fuel pump that can not be used to its fullest potential.

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So we have an engine that is saddled with the extra cost of 4 DI injectors and a special high pressure fuel pump that can not be used to its fullest potential.

 

And a crappy transmission to boot.

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God forbid...

 

Don't confuse the dry clutch 6 speed with a wet clutch 7 speed.

 

Ford GTs and Ferraris use a wet clutch 7 speed DCT.

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Maybe so. On a side note, I listened to interesting conversation between my niece and her dad last weekend. She drives a 2015 Focus hatch that was bought new, and she was complaining about the shutter from acceleration from stop enough so that she was trying to get her dad to trade it in. My family are not auto enthusiasts like myself, and they have all kinds of different brands. When they got it, I didn't know that they were going to be buying a Focus, otherwise I would have suggested they buy something else, and that's coming from a Ford fan. I didn't interject any insight into it because I didn't think it would be useful. Even if you explained why it does it, you arent going to change the way someone feels about it, when they have something to compare it to. She previously had a Chevy Cruz that had a 100k miles on it with no complaints. She gets the Focus, now she has complaints. It may be the way the transmission is supposed to function, but I think there is evidence Americans don't understand it and don't like it.

 

I recognize my conclusion is based on anecdotall evidence, but this issue has been discussed here at length and it's a reasonable conclusion. I don't understand why Ford would continue with this POS, when it is so damaging to Ford's quality perception with entry level buyers. It's very difficult to get people back into the showroom when they feel like they have been burned, right, wrong, or indifferent.

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I'm not disagreeing about the powershift DCT - I think it's a huge mistake not to replace it with a 6F. But that's an entirely different transmission than the wet clutch 7 speed DCT which doesn't suffer from the same problems.

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IMHO, the 2.0L NA DI use in the US was a bad decision. DI's main claim to fame is the ability to run lean. But we all know that a lean engine makes a lot of NOx (I actually worked on the PROCO development team), so this capability can not be used in the US.

 

So we have an engine that is saddled with the extra cost of 4 DI injectors and a special high pressure fuel pump that can not be used to its fullest potential.

Remember when the US product was developed, Mulally was demanding best in class while

insisting that it couldn't be a loss leader / CAFE offset. In that situation, the DI was justified

as a way of delivering a cost efficient NA engine that borowed DI set up from Ecoboost.

 

There were very few choices open to Ford NA, the 1.6 EB was too limted in production,

the 1.6 TiVCT was seen as under powered, the 2.3/2.5 was too big as a base engine.

so reconfiguring the 2.0 for DI was seen as minimal change for added 20 HP.

 

Either the 6AT or a wet clutch DSG box would have been infinity better than the dry clutch Powershift

Edited by jpd80

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I'm not disagreeing about the powershift DCT - I think it's a huge mistake not to replace it with a 6F. But that's an entirely different transmission than the wet clutch 7 speed DCT which doesn't suffer from the same problems.

I follow you.

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I follow you.

 

The powershift issue is that it's a dry clutch design. The wet clutch version still has a few quirks but none of the shuddering that folks complain about on the dry clutch version. And the wet clutch 7 speed is a different transmission altogether.

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I'm not disagreeing about the powershift DCT - I think it's a huge mistake not to replace it with a 6F. But that's an entirely different transmission than the wet clutch 7 speed DCT which doesn't suffer from the same problems.

when are we getting the 9 speed JV w/ GM

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I've learned to live with the shudder (ridiculous thing to say about multi-thousand dollar purchase, I know). As long as the trans doesn't grenade on me, I just scrub the clutch once every 1k - 2k miles or so (about when I feel the shuddering come back) and it is good for a while. It takes about a minute on an empty road.

 

The resale on these are so horrible, that trading it in or selling it won't recoup what I've used. So, driving it into the ground it will be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: Subject to change if I change my mind. :)

Edited by Anthony

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The powershift issue is that it's a dry clutch design. The wet clutch version still has a few quirks but none of the shuddering that folks complain about on the dry clutch version. And the wet clutch 7 speed is a different transmission altogether.

Correct and having driven quite a few examples of wet clutch DCTs I can attest to the reliability.

 

So I'm wondering if the 1.5EB becomes the delineation point for the 7-speed DCT versus the 9AT.

This could be an interesting decision for Ford, do some models get DCT and not others or does Ford

maximize the use of its own in house developed auto?

Edited by jpd80

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Are you all talking about the new 7DCT300 or the 6DCT450 which Ford uses with the diesel engines?

 

With Moray Callum making comments about the next Focus that sound familiar to what Ford N.A. said back in 2005 and 2008 " “It’s an entry-level model in the US, but not in Europe,” he said. “They will be visually similar but there will be less content for the US model. As well as a reduced level of standard equipment, the US Focus could feature less sophisticated suspension, given that the need for strong driving dynamics is less vital in this market and at this price point."

 

With comments like that don't you think Ford N.A. will take the lowest cost avenue as far as what auto tranny will be used in the North American version?

Edited by MKII

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Yes but without knowing which is cheaper, it could be either with the 1.5 EB...

moving production to Mexico will save costs and take a lot of pressure off pricing

 

and what Moray Callum was talking about goes to the entry point pricing and expected trim package,

by far the most popular trim level in the US is the SE (Trend) with fewer S (Studio/Ambiente) sales.

Clearly Ford does get planning wrong (Mexico) and then has to rework its priorities and move forward.

 

Regardless of what Ford chooses to do with entry point, I think buyers will tell dealers what

equipment levels are satisfactory. In the end, the actual buyer is always right.

Edited by jpd80

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