Craig Morton Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Our 2015 Ford Expedition with 20,000 miles in California has Aluminum Corrosion on the front hood and rear hatch door. Ford has known about this problem since the year 2000 and has done nothing about it, documented in Technical Service Bulletin TSB 16-0028. Dealerships are aware, but do not disclose the factory defect prior to sale, which is Fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 First, the TSB was not released until 2016. Second, a TSB only recommends the best repair procedure. Third, no one at a dealership is responsible for reading every TSB and and disseminating the information to sales reps. That TSB applies to 10's of thousands of vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 It is not really a "secret" if they are publishing a TSB about it..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddysystem Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 What's different between these corrosion related issues and the new F150? Are there any early indicators that it may still be a problem or has the new F150 paint process licked the problem? Too early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Well, unless someone from inside the company comes forth and explains the "root cause" of the problem (likely salt water caused corrosion) we will never know. It is known that very small amounts of cross-contamination (iron dust) on aluminum prior to priming will quickly cause corrosion. It is also know that the best anti-corrosion primer for aluminum is zinc chromate based (typically a yellow-green color) and NOT the standard steel auto primer. We do know that Ford is using a new aluminum alloy on the F-series (and likely the Expedition/Navigator) that had NOT been used for auto body panels and is has a new Alco patented treatment (pre-primer). that is applied (IIRC) before the metal is shipped to Ford. In my own personal "quest", I have spoken to several different professional "bump and paint" folks Most will gladly take your money and offer no warranty to sand, fill and paint. Some will recommend replacing the entire panel ($$$) ! One or two go to elaborate lengths of complete removing all trim and components off the door.hatch, removing all paint and primer INCLUDING ON THE INSIDE !! Filling low spots is followed by priming with zinc chromate primer, regular primer, base coat, clear coat and complete re-assembly (also $$$). Edited March 8, 2017 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I thought part of the problem is that some parts like Mustang hoods came from suppliers already painted and/or primed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Duplicate Edited March 7, 2017 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I thought part of the problem is that some parts like Mustang hoods came from suppliers already painted and/or primed. I have often wondered about this. Sounds feasible, as hopefully Ford would be aware of the likelihood of cross contamination if the panels were stamped sides-by-side with steel panels. I still believe that improper preparation (Were tha panels proper cleaned after assembly ? Did they use zinc chromate primer ?) is the root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I thought part of the problem is that some parts like Mustang hoods came from suppliers already painted and/or primed. that may have used to have been the case with the Mustang at least, but the current Mustang hoods are entirely handled by FRAP from stamping all the way to the end of final assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I did about 15K worth of front end damage to my Mustang about a year after I got it when I rear ended someone. The hood was replaced and painted by the body shop and I still have bubbling paint under the hood where the creases are. I don't think this is a factory issue, unless the hood supplier is accidentally contaminating them somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I did about 15K worth of front end damage to my Mustang about a year after I got it when I rear ended someone. The hood was replaced and painted by the body shop and I still have bubbling paint under the hood where the creases are. I don't think this is a factory issue, unless the hood supplier is accidentally contaminating them somehow. MY2015 onwards for sure the supplier is FRAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I did about 15K worth of front end damage to my Mustang about a year after I got it when I rear ended someone. The hood was replaced and painted by the body shop and I still have bubbling paint under the hood where the creases are. I don't think this is a factory issue, unless the hood supplier is accidentally contaminating them somehow. Did the crash parts have zinc chromate primer under the standard primer ? Proper cleaning of the bare metal, after the part is assembled, and priming are key to preventing aluminum oxidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Did the crash parts have zinc chromate primer under the standard primer ? Proper cleaning of the bare metal, after the part is assembled, and priming are key to preventing aluminum oxidation. No clue to be honest with you....this was on my 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Same thing going on with the Aluminum hood on the Explorers.. paint bubbling and flaking off on the front lip (mostly under the front lip of the hood). Mine has all the bubbles but hasn't flaked off so I haven't done anything about it. My understanding was that the aluminum parts were being dipped along with the rest of the vehicle on a universal coating and now the aluminum parts are being dipped by themselves with a better treatment (as mentioned above). Only time will tell but hoping that this has been resolved as this could be disastrous with Ford on the Fseries if this becomes an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Only time will tell but hoping that this has been resolved as this could be disastrous with Ford on the Fseries if this becomes an issue. I'm hoping you're right as well. I had bubbles on the rear tailgate of my 07 Expedition. I have seen my fair share of bubbles and peeling on those aluminum parts on other Fords as well. As a matter of fact, I followed an Expedition to work this morning that had a really bad looking tailgate. I would like to think they have this figured out now, considering the major implications it has for the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 This is now covered. From the 2016MY Warranty Guide, page 11. If aluminum body panels have corrosion or rust damage, and the damage is not the result of abnormal usage, vehicle accident, customer actions and/or extreme environmental conditions, the corrosion or rust damage repairs are covered for 5 years, unlimited miles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd75 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I just booked my 2016 in to get the hood and tailgate repainted, have had it exactly 2 years and noticed it in the summer and getting much worse now. All 4 of my Expeditions have had this happen and whenever I see a used one drive by I take a look and sure enough today I saw a white one with paint peeling around the tailgate handles and the chrome trim piece. Not sure how some of you can say it's not a big problem. I have just accepted it's part of owning one but I hope they have solved this for 2018 because the whole damn thing is aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I just booked my 2016 in to get the hood and tailgate repainted, have had it exactly 2 years and noticed it in the summer and getting much worse now. All 4 of my Expeditions have had this happen and whenever I see a used one drive by I take a look and sure enough today I saw a white one with paint peeling around the tailgate handles and the chrome trim piece. Not sure how some of you can say it's not a big problem. I have just accepted it's part of owning one but I hope they have solved this for 2018 because the whole damn thing is aluminum. I hope you are right about the 2018, as Ive seen a lot of older ones with this problem. If the F150 is indicative, Im optimistic this is resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 It seems to only affect specific vehicles, so it must be a factory problem as opposed to a general Ford problem. I know Lincoln LS owners with aluminum hoods and fenders that have never had a problem in 17+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) It seems to only affect specific vehicles, so it must be a factory problem as opposed to a general Ford problem. I know Lincoln LS owners with aluminum hoods and fenders that have never had a problem in 17+ years. I thought part of the problem is that some parts like Mustang hoods came from suppliers already painted and/or primed.I really think this is the "root cause" ! Quality control at supplier that allowed some type of contamination on the surface prior to them painting it. I will never be able to find it now, but when the aluminum F150 came out there were several news articles how Ford had worked with Alcoa to develop a special coating that was applied at the aluminum factory. I think the term the industry uses is "pickling". This not a primer, which is applied after the body panel is formed, but I am sure that Ford is using the best aluminum primer available, Edited November 2, 2017 by theoldwizard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd75 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Amazing that cheap aluminum siding on a house doesn't have these problems, but an expensive SUV does.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Amazing that cheap aluminum siding on a house doesn't have these problems, but an expensive SUV does.. Agreed. However your house doesn't drive 70mph on the interstate subject to bugs and road rash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryTitus Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 A trusted Ford expert told me a few months ago that they finally figured out the problem. According to him, they stamped steel panels on the same dies as the aluminum panels, leaving just a molecular trace of ferrous material as a residual on the dies. When the aluminum panels are then stamped, the residue transfers to the aluminum. The dissimilar metals then corrode. I know, sounds far fetched, but they have since quit using the dies for steel parts and the problem is supposed to be solved. By the way, my 2005 Expedition had some small corrosion starting to show about two years ago. It was never garaged, ran Ohio roads in the winter, and only had a few small corrosion spots when I traded it in on the new Super Duty two months ago...however, the Rocker panels (steel) were completely rusted off all the way into and past the door seals. Compared to the rocker panels those aluminum parts held up pretty good I'd say! Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis48755 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Not sure what you call it bump/dent guard/shield, but the gen3 Expeditions had a 9 inch vinyl trim layer around the bottom body that would appear to protect the body from dents. I don't see this in the new Gen 4, is the lower aluminum body exposed to dents especially from opening the door against a gas pump cement post for example? Or is it there and just not apparent from the photos. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteinMI Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I just looked at a 2016 Expedition and the rear hatch was already starting to bubble...unbelievable. I was nervous about checking the rocker panels...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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