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jasonj80

GM to Exit EU - Sale of Opel to PSA

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General Motors is in advanced talks to sell its European Opel subsidiary to France’s PSA Peugeot Citroen, Handelsblatt confirmed after Reuters broke the story. A Peugeot spokesperson told Handelsblatt that the two are in discussions “over the purchase of Opel.” A deal “could be announced within days,” sources told Reuters. The Opel business includes the Vauxhall brand.
Later in the day, PSA Peugeot Citroen put out a press release in which the company officially “confirms that, together with General Motors, it is exploring numerous strategic initiatives aiming at improving its profitability and operational efficiency, including a potential acquisition of Opel.” However, the company added that “there can be no assurance that an agreement will be reached.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/02/14/gm-considering-withdrawal-from-eu-sale-of-opel-to-peugeot-reports-say/


Guess they don't see a profitable way in Europe, makes sense as they have pretty much tried everything at this point.
Edited by jasonj80

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So where is Buick going to get there cars from? :)

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So where is Buick going to get there cars from? :)

That was my first thought as well, Opel does a lot of GM Engineering work as well for both the US and Chinese market.

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Where?

 

GM Korea, formerly Deawoo, will provide compacts and smaller cars to GM worldwide. Also, Buick of China.

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PSA has said it wants to re-enter the North American market. Continuing to sell Opels rebadged as Buicks would be one way for it to achieve this goal, particularly since Americans aren't exactly waiting with baited breath for the chance to buy brand-new Citroens and Peugoets.

 

If this deals goes through, will GM then be smaller than Ford on a worldwide basis? I'm guessing that it will definitely be smaller than VW, and maybe even Toyota.

Edited by grbeck

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So where is Buick going to get there cars from? :)

 

The savior Alpha platform, duhhhh.

 

Where?

 

GM Korea, formerly Deawoo, will provide compacts and smaller cars to GM worldwide. Also, Buick of China.

 

Are Chinese Buick models different from the ROW Opel-based models?

 

PSA has said it wants to re-enter the North American market. Continuing to sell Opels rebadged as Buicks would be one way for it to achieve this goal, particularly since Americans aren't exactly waiting with baited breath for the chance to buy brand-new Citroens and Peugoets.

 

If this deals goes through, will GM then be smaller than Ford on a worldwide basis? I'm guessing that it will definitely be smaller than VW, and maybe even Toyota.

 

What you're saying doesn't make sense - Buick isn't going anywhere, so PSA wouldn't automatically gain any market in the US by this move, even though GM would continue with those models for a while (they'd gradually be phased out, much like JLR or Volvo's split from Ford).

 

I've read it'd result in a loss of 1.6 million sales. I don't know what global sales of all of the brands are to be able to "re-rank" them minus that many units.

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If Buick isn't going anywhere, it could continue to sell rebadged Opels, or whatever PSA chooses to call them in Europe. This practice could continue with the next generation of Opels (or whatever PSA chooses to call them - but I'm guessing that PSA would maintain the Opel name in Germany, at a minimum). Having GM sell vehicles produced by PSA as Buicks in this country is one way for PSA to use as much production capacity as possible.

 

The question is whether PSA simply wants to sell some vehicles in this country, regardless of the nameplate on those vehicles, or whether it is set on selling actual Peugoets and Citroens here, and with the vehicles wearing those badges.

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If Buick isn't going anywhere, it could continue to sell rebadged Opels, or whatever PSA chooses to call them in Europe. This practice could continue with the next generation of Opels (or whatever PSA chooses to call them - but I'm guessing that PSA would maintain the Opel name in Germany, at a minimum). Having GM sell vehicles produced by PSA as Buicks in this country is one way for PSA to use as much production capacity as possible.

 

The question is whether PSA simply wants to sell some vehicles in this country, regardless of the nameplate on those vehicles, or whether it is set on selling actual Peugoets and Citroens here, and with the vehicles wearing those badges.

 

I just don't see that as being a viable long term scenario. In the short term, yes, PSA would have to continue building the Opel models. Also, none of the Buicks sold here are built in Europe (as far as I know), so them building Buicks for GM doesn't make sense. They would just remain the same design as the Opel vehicles until redesigned (presumably on a mix of Chevy and perhaps Alpha platforms).

 

As for entering in the US market, I don't see any advantage to them using the Opel brand as opposed to their own Peugoet or Citroen - it's not as if Opel is known any better than those two - no matter which name they use, they'd be starting a network from scratch, so why not use their own? Now if they somehow acquired Buick (which I see as highly unlikely, given its standing in the Chinese market for GM), they'd presumably use that name, but that won't happen.

Edited by rmc523

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The Buick Regal is the Opel/Vauxhall Insiginia, and there was talk that the next-generation version could be built in Germany, instead of Canada. Whether this latest news throws a complete monkey wrench into how that ultimately plays out remains to be seen.

 

I was talking about any PSA vehicles being sold as Buicks, not Opels. I agree that the Opel nameplate isn't any better known in this country than either Peugoet or Citroen. Realistically, unless those vehicles are sold under an established brand (such as Buick), it makes no sense for PSA to return to this market. This is a saturated, mature market, and there is no indication that Americans are waiting for another European brand to re-enter the market. Americans haven't been rushing to buy Fiats over the past few years, and the jury is still out on whether the reintroduction of Alfa-Romeo will prove to be a worthwhile effort. But even before this proposed purchase, PSA management had said that it plans to return to the U.S. market.

Edited by grbeck

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The Buick Regal is the Opel/Vauxhall Insiginia, and there was talk that the next-generation version could be built in Germany, instead of Canada. Whether this latest news throws a complete monkey wrench into how that ultimately plays out remains to be seen.

 

I was talking about any PSA vehicles being sold as Buicks, not Opels. I agree that the Opel nameplate isn't any better known in this country than either Peugoet or Citroen. Realistically, unless those vehicles are sold under an established brand (such as Buick), it makes no sense for PSA to return to this market. This is a saturated, mature market, and there is no indication that Americans are waiting for another European brand to re-enter the market. Americans haven't been rushing to buy Fiats over the past few years, and the jury is still out on whether the reintroduction of Alfa-Romeo will prove to be a worthwhile effort. But even before this proposed purchase, PSA management had said that it plans to return to the U.S. market.

 

Ah I see. Well, as far as I understand, that wouldn't happen in any scenario, as Buicks - while having 3 Opel-based models - wouldn't otherwise be affected by or involved in this. And after more research, only the Cascada is produced in Europe for the US, the other two US Opel-based Buick models aren't built in Europe, so really they wouldn't be affected from a production standpoint. Engineering, yes, they'd phase away from those models over time, but production-wise nothing would changed, so really Buick wouldn't be affected at all, as engineering efforts would still be shared with Holden in Australia.

 

---

 

I posted this over at GMI...

 

To me, looking at just selling Opel/Vauxhaull in a vacuum is easy to see. As you said, get rid of Opel/its headaches, and bring in Chevy in its place.

 

I presume in the deal, it'd be worked out that PSA would continue to produce the existing models until year X when GM phases them out with replacement product (in our scenario, Chevy models), while PSA takes over designing/engineering of Opel/Vauxhaull products from X year forward (though they could presumably enter an agreement with GM to continue using certain parts of GM tech, like Ford did with JLR in supplying them engines for some time after the sale.....except PSA is already established and has their own tech they could just plug into these vehicles).

 

The integration of Buick and Holden into Opel/Vauxhaull product programs creates further headaches.

 

I would have to assume that Buick (and by extension Holden) would then become some combination of Chevy FWD platforms for the smaller vehicles and some version of Alpha for the larger ones?

 

If they're using Chevy platforms on the lower end, they're charging higher prices compared to Chevys, so they'd making more there, whereas it'd be essentially the opposite with the use of Alpha - charging less than Caddy models, so making less there, though they'd also be adding more volume and economies of scale to the Alpha platform, in theory resulting in an overall more profitable platform.

 

Definitely an interesting situation, and I'm intrigued to see how it'll be handled if it happens.

Edited by rmc523

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Now there's talk of this move being a precursor to a GM/FCA merger:

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170214/OEM/170219926/1221

 

I'm not sure why GM would trade one money-pit for another one. It would be very expensive to closed down the extra dealers and factories.

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Now there's talk of this move being a precursor to a GM/FCA merger

 

Its possible, but at the same time does GM really want to take on all of FCA's retirement fund, in addition to its own?

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What would be the benefit of GM picking up another truck or SUV make? Doesn't seem useful to me.

 

I would love if Ford owned Jeep because I like them, but I honestly don't see the benefit.

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What would be the benefit of GM picking up another truck or SUV make? Doesn't seem useful to me.

 

I would love if Ford owned Jeep because I like them, but I honestly don't see the benefit.

 

They'd do it for Jeep and for FCA's European operations (Fiat, Alfa, Maserati).

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I would love if Ford owned Jeep because I like them, but I honestly don't see the benefit.

 

The benefit? World-wide name recognition. And big profits.

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If GM and FCA merged, would GM no longer be an American company?? Ford would remain the last American manufacturer of automobiles??

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If GM and FCA merged, would GM no longer be an American company?? Ford would remain the last American manufacturer of automobiles??

Tesla ;)

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Tesla ;)

.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

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If GM acquired FCA, why wouldn't the result be a U.S. corporation? It's all fun speculation, I really don't see it happening. FCA is about 1/2 way through their long slide to oblivion.

 

I really don't see the proposed sale/merger of Opel as anything more than GM shedding a money-loosing operation that has little hope of a real turnaround. And, if it happens I think it will prompt Ford to to take a long hard look at their European operations.

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The benefit? World-wide name recognition. And big profits.

 

It's difficult to say how profitable Jeep is on its own. And then you get into the debate about overlapping products. It could probably work but may not be the best investment.

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It's difficult to say how profitable Jeep is on its own. And then you get into the debate about overlapping products. It could probably work but may not be the best investment.

GM is already the king of overlapping products, what's a few more?

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GM is already the king of overlapping products, what's a few more?

The question was about Ford buying Jeep, not GM.

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The question was about Ford buying Jeep, not GM.

got it. I must have missed something

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