New Ford 7.0 L....?

[fordmantpw]

 

I didn't know how to do it when I was actually in Calculus class so I definitely don't know how to do it today.

 

That's the one college course I just never understood. My first teacher at our local community college was horrible so I never really learned the basics. I managed to get a C in both courses. Then I got a 105 average in Linear Algebra which was really just matrix multiplication. Why that course came after the Calculus courses is still a mystery - easiest course I ever took.

 

I love math in all shapes and forms, and always enjoyed Calc. Of course, I had Calc 1, 2, and 3, plus every single engineering course revolved around Calculus. The only math I have ever hated was proofs!

[akirby]

 

I love math in all shapes and forms, and always enjoyed Calc.

 

You must also enjoy wearing fiberglass underwear, watching the bachelor and other masochistic things.......

[fordmantpw]

 

You must also enjoy wearing fiberglass underwear, watching the bachelor and other masochistic things.......

 

Hmmm, haven't tried them, absolutely not, and mostly no.

 

I can do most math quicker than most folks with a calculator. It's kinda fun really.

[RichardJensen]

 

I haven't used Calculus since college, why should I go back to it now?

 

But, even though it's been almost 20 years, I still remember how.

 

I had an awesome calc professor my first semester.

 

I still remember exactly where I was sitting when I *got* the fundamental theorem of calculus.

 

Class was over the noon hour in this swelteringly hot room in a building right next to the steam plant, and one day I fell asleep while sitting in the front row.

 

Mo called on me, and woke me up, and then asked if I was sleeping.

 

When I said yes, he said, "When I was in college I played sax on the weekends in a band, and it was great. It was a great way to make a living while I was in school. But I can't tell you how many times I fell asleep in class"

 

He's in his 80s now, and I bet he's still playing sax.

 

http://state.sdstateconnect.org/collegiates-kept-post-wwii-crowds-swinging-swaying/

[RichardJensen]

My second semester calc prof was horrible. Just horrible. To this day I have no idea if he even understood what he was teaching.

 

Third unit was a guy named Anderson. Wizened and tough old dude who used to smoke out on the front porch of the building before each class.

 

One day he got off on a tangent and he was talking about when he lived in Switzerland.

 

He said that the Swiss would go on and on about how everybody was so honest and there was so little crime.

 

And he finally asked one of them, "Well, if you're all so honest, how come you make such intricate and complicated locks?" And the guy said, "Well, we like to be sure."

[RichardJensen]

Anyone want to know how to find the first derivative of a polynomial ?

 

Let me see if I remember this right.

 

If you're looking at:

 

f(x) = 5x²​ + ​6x - 12, you end up with f'(x) = 10x + 6

 

Right?

[fordmantpw]

 

I had an awesome calc professor my first semester.

 

I still remember exactly where I was sitting when I *got* the fundamental theorem of calculus.

 

Class was over the noon hour in this swelteringly hot room in a building right next to the steam plant, and one day I fell asleep while sitting in the front row.

 

Mo called on me, and woke me up, and then asked if I was sleeping.

 

When I said yes, he said, "When I was in college I played sax on the weekends in a band, and it was great. It was a great way to make a living while I was in school. But I can't tell you how many times I fell asleep in class"

 

He's in his 80s now, and I bet he's still playing sax.

 

http://state.sdstateconnect.org/collegiates-kept-post-wwii-crowds-swinging-swaying/

 

My first Calc professor was the toughest prof on campus. I got my first calc test back with a big ole 46% across the front of it. I was devastated. I thought that maybe I was in the wrong place and was wondering why my high school days had taught me nothing. I started looking for a job in addition to my weekend gig because I had to keep a 3.75 GPA to keep my scholarships and thought for sure I was going to be broke big time! Then I learned he was the toughest prof on campus and graded on a curve and I ended up with an A. I think Calc I was probably my toughest class in all of college and I think it prepared me well for the remaining time in school. Not due to the material, but the fact that the instructor wanted to find out who really got it.

 

 

Let me see if I remember this right.

 

If you're looking at:

 

f(x) = 5x²​ + ​6x - 12, you end up with f'(x) = 10x + 6

 

Right?

 

You sir, are correct.

Edited April 19, 2017 by fordmantpw

[RichardJensen]

At my adviser, the art department head's retirement party, his first hire, and the current head of the department, talked about how he had only six students in his first graphic design class, and two of them dropped it within a couple weeks.

 

He said he was afraid he was going to lose his job, and Dr. Gambill told him, "I expect you to lose students. If you don't, you're not doing your job."

 

I couldn't stand him, as a 20 year old. In one of his classes, he gave an assignment and said, "I hate the color orange. I do not want to see orange on any of your designs. If you use orange, I'm not even going to accept it."

 

And we were all, like, "What is this guy?"

 

And of course, some kids decided to use orange just because he said not to. And, true to his word, he did not accept those designs; they had to redo them without orange.

 

But then you graduate, you get a job in the real world, and you realize that clients are always going to have some variation of "I hate orange", and you can either figure out how to deal with it, or you can get a job as a barista and paint whatever you want in your spare time.

Edited April 19, 2017 by RichardJensen

[snooter]

Now i finally understand why everything went to china...its the maths...and orange is the fastest color

Edited April 19, 2017 by snooter

[twintornados]

Oh poor thread, where have ye gone....

[lfeg]

Back on track. From where I sit, I only see the 7 liter V8 as being a slightly improved replacement for the 6.8 V10. It may lower Ford's costs some, but it is not going to do all that much to improve market share by itself. There is a place for a 7 liter size engine in class 5 and 6, but for the heavier applications in class 6 and in class 7 (and "baby 8") something larger is needed, such as an engine with a displacement of say between 8.2 and 9 liters.

 

The market is changing, and the rate of change is increasing. The local transit agency is looking for alternatives for diesels in their heavy buses, as the latest batch of diesel heavy buses are maintenance intensive, high cost of operation machines. They looked at CNG, and are put off by the high cost of a refueling station and maintenance issues other bus fleets have had. They like propane, but no one offers a turn key option. They are seriously considering battery electric with inductive charging at transfer stations and high rate DC charging at the bus barn, as this looks to be the lowest cost option considering initial cost and cost of operation over 15 years.

Also, a friend who works for a nationwide outfit with large fleets of class 8 trucks is learning about CNG fueled trucks, as the company is building a new facility to handle a changeover from diesel to CNG in his region. There are more than a few horror stories from other regions, but they are proceeding because of increasing maintenance issues (and operating costs) with the latest tech diesels, and the anticipation of future issues as GHG standards get tighter.

 

These are some of the drivers that are behind gas engines in classes 5 through 8.

[lfeg]

Oh, and a question that The Old Wizard may weigh in on. Is there a modern equivalent for the old "1000 hour test"? That test is one reason many old heavy duty gas engines were rated as low in HP as they were, as being run at full power put extraodinary loads on all systems.

[SoonerLS]

Anyone want to know how to find the first derivative of a polynomial ?

I didn't want to know how to do that when I took Calc, and I've successfully forgotten it, so, thanks, but no thanks.

Let me see if I remember this right.

 

If you're looking at:

 

f(x) = 5x²​ + ​6x - 12, you end up with f'(x) = 10x + 6

 

Right?

Dammit.

[SoonerLS]

My first Calc professor was the toughest prof on campus. I got my first calc test back with a big ole 46% across the front of it. I was devastated. I thought that maybe I was in the wrong place and was wondering why my high school days had taught me nothing.

My dad told me about one math class he took with a visiting professor who was certain that American students were stupid and lazy, and he was determined to prove it. After the first exam, my dad checked the grades (this was back when they posted the entire class's grades), and he got a 38 out of 100--and he had the highest grade in the class. He said that was the most worthless class he ever took.

 

The worst class I recall taking...well, it would be a toss-up between Physics I for Science and Engineering Majors and Calc III. Physics I was a knowledge-negative class for me--I actually knew less physics than I did before I took the class. The thing that really got me PO'd was that they had an incredible physics professor, but they had him teaching Physics for Truck Drivers (officially, Physics for Non-Science Majors) while the people who would actually be using physics were saddled with a guy whose screeching chalk was only outdone by his screeching voice.

 

Actually, Calc III wasn't so bad, but the GA they had teaching the class was fresh off the boat from Korea and wasn't so hot at teh Englishes. It's hard enough to follow some of the terminology when you can understand the professor...

[SoonerLS]

They are seriously considering battery electric with inductive charging at transfer stations and high rate DC charging at the bus barn, as this looks to be the lowest cost option considering initial cost and cost of operation over 15 years.

The thing I don't understand is why there's not much of a push into hybrids if they're looking at electrics. The railroads have been running diesel-electric hybrids for about a century now, so it seems like a logical extension to move that down into class 6 and up.

[RichardJensen]

Actually, Calc III wasn't so bad, but the GA they had teaching the class was fresh off the boat from Korea and wasn't so hot at teh Englishes. It's hard enough to follow some of the terminology when you can understand the professor...

 

Holy crap. You shouldn't be able to keep your accreditation if you're having a GA teach Calc III. You might as well just give kids the text book and tell them to watch YouTube videos if they come across something they can't figure out.

Edited April 20, 2017 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

The market is changing, and the rate of change is increasing.

 

It'll be interesting to see what ends up being the most cost-effective option going forward. Just about any option besides gasoline is going to have, I suspect, some unanticipated consequences.

[lfeg]

The thing I don't understand is why there's not much of a push into hybrids if they're looking at electrics. The railroads have been running diesel-electric hybrids for about a century now, so it seems like a logical extension to move that down into class 6 and up.

Problem with hybrids on that scale is cost and complexity. Adding batteries to a diesel electric locomotive is easier said than done - just ask GE as they had a few demonstration units on the rails about 10 years ago. And on an electric bus, adding a combustion engine just adds more complexity and maintenance cost.

 

One place that diesel electric hybrids seem to be gaining some traction is in tugboats. I have been involved in that area, and there are two things that make it commercially viable - the strict emissions regs for the harbors on the left coast, and being able to replace ballast with something useful - the batteries.

[theoldwizard]

Oh, and a question that The Old Wizard may weigh in on. Is there a modern equivalent for the old "1000 hour test"? That test is one reason many old heavy duty gas engines were rated as low in HP as they were, as being run at full power put extraodinary loads on all systems.

There is still something like this. That was what I was told (5-7 years ago) that the 6.2L failed.

[theoldwizard]

My dad told me about one math class he took with a visiting professor who was certain that American students were stupid and lazy, and he was determined to prove it. After the first exam, my dad checked the grades (this was back when they posted the entire class's grades), and he got a 38 out of 100--and he had the highest grade in the class. He said that was the most worthless class he ever took.

The university I attended had a policy requiring student feedback before a prof could get tenure. We had a prof that none of the students like. She did so poorly on her feedback, not only did she NOT get tenure, but was terminated.

 

Physics I was a knowledge-negative class for me--I actually knew less physics than I did before I took the class.

I had the same prof for Physics I and II. He did not like the "standard" Physics text by Haliday & Resnick, so he wrote his own ! Volume I showed up in the university bookstore a couple of days after classes started. Soft cover copy machine printed about 2" thick. First semester was easy (I had most of it in high school). The second semester was a problem. He had only finished a few chapters by the time the semester started. After a few weeks, wee would get a new chapter every week or 2.

 

Yes, it is still being printed !

 

It's hard enough to follow some of the terminology when you can understand the professor...

That was my prof for electronics ! We actually had to stop him one day to ask what a "rec-i-propal" was. "You know one over X !"

Edited April 20, 2017 by theoldwizard

[theoldwizard]

 

Let me see if I remember this right.

 

If you're looking at:

 

f(x) = 5x²​ + ​6x - 12, you end up with f'(x) = 10x + 6

 

Right?

CORRECT ! (I think !!)

 

When my oldest was a high school senior, he wanted to take Calculus but could not fit it in his schedule. I suggest that he take it as an independent study if he could get a teacher to approve it. He did, but the teacher said, "Don't expect me to help ! I have forgotten everything about Calculus !!"

 

So about 25 years after I had taken the class, I was "teaching" it to 2 students (he had a buddy join him). Thank God we never got into integrals !

[fordmantpw]

Actually, Calc III wasn't so bad, but the GA they had teaching the class was fresh off the boat from Korea and wasn't so hot at teh Englishes. It's hard enough to follow some of the terminology when you can understand the professor...

 

My GA for my C++ classes were the same way (I don't remember the nationality, but Asian of some sort). We had to piece everything he said together, understanding about 1 out of every 5 or 6 words. I'm surprised I went on to be a programmer after that, thought I still despise C++ to this day. C# is where it's at!

 

 

Holy crap. You shouldn't be able to keep your accreditation if you're having a GA teach Calc III. You might as well just give kids the text book and tell them to watch YouTube videos if they come across something they can't figure out.

 

I had the same for Calc II and I think Calc III. They were pretty decent though.

[RichardJensen]

Thank God we never got into integrals !

 

Ugh. Yes. 'Please memorize these 20-odd equations that can be symbolically integrated' Got that? Good. Now I'm going to throw the most bizarre equations at you I can think of, and your sole task in life is to see if they can be reduced to an equation that can be symbolically integrated. You want to learn something about the theory of integrals? BAH! That's not why you're here. I have no idea why the trig functions are related the way they are, so I sure as heck ain't gonna explain that!'

 

I pulled an all-nighter before my Calc II final, did every fourth exercise in the text for the whole semester, and still didn't finish the test.

[RichardJensen]

There is still something like this. That was what I was told (5-7 years ago) that the 6.2L failed.

 

See, what I'm curious about is why this would happen?

 

So, here's where I'm coming from:

 

Assumptions

 

1) That the 6.2 was intended to be a 'family' with multiple displacements/uses (why would you develop a brand new engine for just one displacement and one use?)

 

2) That if it was conceived as a replacement for the Mods, it would have to replace the 6.8, and even if it wasn't intended to replace the Mods, the 6.8L is the oldest engine in use and the 6.2 is within 10% of the 6.8's displacement

 

So, either way, it seems almost a given that they intended to replace the 6.8 with some variant of the 6.2

 

With that in mind, why would they design an engine that would fail the 1000 hour test? I mean, certainly they have a rough idea what the design parameters would have to be to pass the test?

 

I mean, was the 6.2L someone's shoestring pet project that never got the engineering resources necessary to do it right?

[fordmantpw]

 

Ugh. Yes. 'Please memorize these 20-odd equations that can be symbolically integrated' Got that? Good. Now I'm going to throw the most bizarre equations at you I can think of, and your sole task in life is to see if they can be reduced to an equation that can be symbolically integrated. You want to learn something about the theory of integrals? BAH! That's not why you're here. I have no idea why the trig functions are related the way they are, so I sure as heck ain't gonna explain that!'

 

I pulled an all-nighter before my Calc II final, did every fourth exercise in the text for the whole semester, and still didn't finish the test.

 

Calc II was the most difficult I thought. The concepts were more 'out there' and more difficult to grasp.

 

I think the reason I enjoyed my engineering classes was because I got to see what could be done with all that math. The real purpose of it came out. Even though I can't tell you much of that anymore since I haven't used a bit of it since graduation. As the interviewer for my first real job (the one I still have nearly 20 years later) said: "We recruit engineers not for what they know, but for their ability to solve problems. We're going to teach you what you need to know for us, so we just look for the problem solving ability." Even being a software consulting firm, they heavily recruited engineers from the University of MO - Rolla, one of the best public engineering schools around.