New Ford 7.0 L....?

[jpd80]

First test engines were expected at the end of the year, production of the 10R140 gearbox is still more than 6 months away

[Stray Kat]

Well the designs are locked in, would it hurt to let a little more information out?

[fuzzymoomoo]

Well the designs are locked in, would it hurt to let a little more information out?

Yes. It will bankrupt the company. They are already on the verge of going out of business /s

[Sevensecondsuv]

Here you go:

 

Common specs:

120mm bore spacing

270mm deck height

Cam-in-block, separate intake and exhaust cams with ti-vct

Aluminum heads, 2 valves / cylinder

PFDI fuel system

 

Engine #1, optional on F250/350, E Series, Raptor, and Navigator, standard on F450/550

Block: CGI

Displacement: 7.3L / 447 cubic inches

Bore: 108mm

Stroke: 100mm

Power: 485 hp at 5250 rpm

Torque: 525 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm, 90% of peak available from 1500 rpm

 

Engine #2, optional on F550, standard on F650/750

Displacement: 8.5L / 519 cubic inches

Block: CGI

Bore: 108mm

Stroke: 116mm

Power: 450 hp @ 4000 rpm

Torque: 600 ft-lb @ 2300 rpm, 90% of peak available from 1500 rpm

 

Engine #3, available in special edition of Mustang and a new F-150 Lightning

Displacement: 7.0L / 427 cubic inches

Block: Aluminum

Bore: 112mm

Stroke: 88.8mm

Power: 700 hp @ 7250 rpm

Torque: 585 ft-lb @ 4600 rpm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, you wanted actual specs and not my personal wish list? I can't help with that...

Edited November 2, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv

[fuzzymoomoo]

Dammit you had me going there with that special edition mustang and F-150 Lightning

[Bob Rosadini]

Hah-and I saw option 2 and said.."Not only do Ford medium duty trucks survive, they will increase market share by a huge amount.-The 534 is Back!"

[7Mary3]

Looks like GM is a little further along with their large displacement V-8:

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/11/new-gm-engine-coming-to-wide-range-of-heavy-trucks/

 

This is a surprise to me, 7X was officially announced back in March of 2017, and the rumors went back even further than that. GM's big V-8 has only been the subject of sketchy rumors for the last year or so, and this is the first solid information about it. It could very will be that GM's new V-8 isn't really 'all new' and may borrow heavily from the Gen. 5 LS family. That would explain a quick development compared to Ford's engine which I believe really is all new, and not related to existing engines.

[Sevensecondsuv]

I still can't believe GM only has their sights set on benchmarking the current Ford V10. 6.6L just isn't that much displacement for medium duty. Yeah it'll be class-leading (barely) for a few months, but this is going to be blown out of the water by an all-new 7.3L Ford.

 

I understand GM had the biggest need to do something, anything about their gas engine offering since the ancient 6.0L just doesn't stack up against what's currently available from Ford and RAM, but this seems awful short sighted. The only thing I can think is it's just a cheap fix based on taking the LSx to its displacement limit while maintaining enough strength to survive medium duty service. Going less than 7.0L doesn't make sense otherwise.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Seems that the mantra at GM lately is good enough. I would classify a lot of their current products as good enough.

[jpd80]

I still can't believe GM only has their sights set on benchmarking the current Ford V10. 6.6L just isn't that much displacement for medium duty. Yeah it'll be class-leading (barely) for a few months, but this is going to be blown out of the water by an all-new 7.3L Ford.

 

I understand GM had the biggest need to do something, anything about their gas engine offering since the ancient 6.0L just doesn't stack up against what's currently available from Ford and RAM, but this seems awful short sighted. The only thing I can think is it's just a cheap fix based on taking the LSx to its displacement limit while maintaining enough strength to survive medium duty service. Going less than 7.0L doesn't make sense otherwise.

Sounds like a tall deck LS, maybe 4" bore and 4" stroke, nice square engine that has plenty of bottom end torque

probably perfect engine for Class 3, 4, 5, and perhaps a reach for 6 but indeed, a bit light on for Class 7.

 

Current engines

GM 6.0 V8........360 Hp @ 5,400.......380 lb ft @ 4,200

Ford 6.2 V8.......380 Hp @ 5,750.......430 lb ft @ 3,800

 

Ford 6.8 V10....362 Hp @ 4,750.......457 lb ft @ 3,250

 

Notice what the 6.8 V10 brings, stronger power and torque in the lower end where a truck needs it

I suspect the GM 6.6 will do similar, perhaps a little better with 400 Hp @ 5,000 and 450 lb ft at 3200

Edited November 2, 2018 by jpd80

[Sevensecondsuv]

probably perfect engine for Class 3, 4, 5, and perhaps a reach for 6 but indeed, a bit light on for Class 7.

 

I think it's in that strange middle of the road category much like Ford's current 6.2: a little excessive for class 2/3 fleet trucks that spend most of their time putzing around jobsites with nothing more than tools and a water cooler in the bed but not really enough for the retail buyer who actually wants to utilize the 12k lb tow rating without the hassle and expense of the diesel option. That's why there always used to be a standard 5.x litre gas engine, a bigger gas engine optional for about $1000 extra and then of course the $10,000 turbo diesel option of for those guys who pull day in and day out.

 

 

I really hope Ford goes back to the three engine lineup in F250/350. The base engine could be a de-stroked 6.2 or possibly even the f-150 version of the coyote. Heck the 300 six served admirably as the base engine in F250 fleet trucks for all those years. There's probably plenty of fleets that wouldn't bat an eye at a six in lower model fleet F250s nowadays, although I'm not sure the 3.3/5/7L corporate V6 would pass duty cycle muster.

[7Mary3]

We will have to see, but from what I am hearing GM's 6.6L will produce very respectable H.P. and torque numbers while giving decent fuel economy. These engines are aimed at fleets, so fuel economy is an important factor. It also looks like they will be keeping the 6.0L around for the full size vans and other OEM's.

[jpd80]

.

I think there's an interaction between 3.5EB/5.0 V8 F150 sales and 6.2 V8 F250 sales, an engine that doesn't fit under CAFE.

If anything Ford will add a larger gas engine to F350 to F650 in the hopes of picking up easy sales.

 

 

Those fleet buyers who really want the 6.7 Powerstroke will not be swayed by the bigger gas engine

so those sales are probably safe.

Edited November 2, 2018 by jpd80

[twintornados]

Still no word on the beastie....

[Bob Rosadini]

On 11/2/2018 at 6:16 PM, jpd80 said:

.

I think there's an interaction between 3.5EB/5.0 V8 F150 sales and 6.2 V8 F250 sales, an engine that doesn't fit under CAFE.

If anything Ford will add a larger gas engine to F350 to F650 in the hopes of picking up easy sales.

 

 

Those fleet buyers who really want the 6.7 Powerstroke will not be swayed by the bigger gas engine

so those sales are probably safe.

Well you might be correct on your last statement, but If you believe that aside from a MPG savings for the operator who runs a lot of annual miles, there are a good number of operators who DON"T run high annual miles but need the 6.7's power because they have a high GVW or GVCW.   The big gasser will satisfy them at a lot less first cost.

[jpd80]

Yeah, at the moment Ford is pretty much all diesel in some truck segments, so adding a gas engine may draw some sales but maybe pick up a lot more Gas sales on the other side of that.....I just hope higher fuel prices don't put operators off big gas engines and reverse some buying decisions.

Edited November 10, 2018 by jpd80
correct grammar

[tbone]

AAA is predicting lower gas prices this fall and potentially going lower beyond that time period so hopefully gas prices hold up for the foreseeable future. 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, tbone said:

AAA is predicting lower gas prices this fall and potentially going lower beyond that time period so hopefully gas prices hold up for the foreseeable future. 

Gas has gone down about  .15-20 cents in the past three weeks or so. 

[fordmantpw]

Gas has fallen quite a bit here.  Of course, diesel has gone up going into winter like it always does. 

[7Mary3]

Fuel prices are not the half of it.  Factor in purchase price, poor fuel economy, expensive repairs, and reduced longevity these new diesel are rapidly loosing their ownership cost advantages over spark-ignition engines.  7X is a good move, I can see it eventually outselling the Powerstroke if trends continue.

[snooter]

38 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Fuel prices are not the half of it.  Factor in purchase price, poor fuel economy, expensive repairs, and reduced longevity these new diesel are rapidly loosing their ownership cost advantages over spark-ignition engines.  7X is a good move, I can see it eventually outselling the Powerstroke if trends continue.

Agreed...unless you really have need for a diesel its best to get the gas burner.....

[Stray Kat]

So this is top secret to the very end. Not a sliver of real information except for the displacement, where it will be built and rumors of its intended purpose. 

This better be good after all the wait time. If I recall correctly there was scant information about the Coyote except for name and intended purpose. Look how well that turned out. 

This can’t come soon enough. 

[blksn8k2]

Yep, typical Ford paranoia.

[Sevensecondsuv]

As a counter point, remember the lead up to the "all-new, groundbreaking" Explorer in 2011 which ended up being Freestyle 3.0, which has admittedly sold well. 3rd time's the charm I guess.

[twintornados]

17 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

As a counter point, remember the lead up to the "all-new, groundbreaking" Explorer in 2011 which ended up being Freestyle 3.0, which has admittedly sold well. 3rd time's the charm I guess.

...along with all the cobbled up mules in spy photos that fueled the speculations.