To those who still have faith in the union way

[fuzzymoomoo]

Please explain something to me. How am I supposed to have faith in the system, when the system has repeatedly failed me (and a few hundred others) over the past year?

 

It was around this time a year ago (give or take a few weeks) when 675 of us found out that we would no longer be employed at the Ford Michigan Assembly Plant. A few months later through means still unknown to us that number was whittled down to about 275 by the time the drop dead date of June 21, 2015 hit. It's a day that I won't forget for a while because me, like the 275 or so others and later a few hundred more have had my life literally on hold since then.

 

Now I, like many others, signed up for a temporary assignment at another plant, knowing that it wouldn't be permanent, but being a chance that it could be. I don't know what those at other plants were told at their makeshift orientation sessions, but the 40 or so of us at FRAP were told that the assignment would end on September 6th. That day came and went and what did we hear from the union? Crickets. Nothing. Not even so much as a see you Monday. Christmas came and went and same thing. We were supposed to be laid off going into the holiday shutdown (what a kick in the crotch of a Christmas gift that would have been eh?) and again from our union, nothing.

 

Now again I've heard that we are going to be laid off again in March. Nothing on a specific date, just March. This being after we were told to just wait for the new contract, then after we got crickets when that was ratified, we were told wait for retirement buyouts, then we will learn more. Well contract came and went and apparently some of those eligible for buyout have started receiving the information in the mail. Yet somehow we are still stuck in pergatory.

 

This situation is particularly infuriating to me since I've been doing a job of a guy who literally showed up for 3 days and 1 hour throughout the entire month of January, yet he's still employed, but by all means, lay me off at the absolute first possibility after never missing a day that wasn't scheduled (going back to May 2013 when I first started at MAP) and being late twice, one time due to flat tire and the other due to sleeping through an alarm. Obviously the former I couldn't really control.

 

So once again, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in a system that has repeatedly let me down, and continues to do so? It's getting more and more difficult every day.

 

/rant. Long winded I know but I need to get that off my chest.

[BigDeal]

Welcome to the life of a low seniority autoworker..thats how it is sometimes, it will all work out, at least your making $$ and not on layoff you should be thankful there was a temporary opportunity for you to keep working.

[cecilmeyer]

Please explain something to me. How am I supposed to have faith in the system, when the system has repeatedly failed me (and a few hundred others) over the past year?

 

It was around this time a year ago (give or take a few weeks) when 675 of us found out that we would no longer be employed at the Ford Michigan Assembly Plant. A few months later through means still unknown to us that number was whittled down to about 275 by the time the drop dead date of June 21, 2015 hit. It's a day that I won't forget for a while because me, like the 275 or so others and later a few hundred more have had my life literally on hold since then.

 

Now I, like many others, signed up for a temporary assignment at another plant, knowing that it wouldn't be permanent, but being a chance that it could be. I don't know what those at other plants were told at their makeshift orientation sessions, but the 40 or so of us at FRAP were told that the assignment would end on September 6th. That day came and went and what did we hear from the union? Crickets. Nothing. Not even so much as a see you Monday. Christmas came and went and same thing. We were supposed to be laid off going into the holiday shutdown (what a kick in the crotch of a Christmas gift that would have been eh?) and again from our union, nothing.

 

Now again I've heard that we are going to be laid off again in March. Nothing on a specific date, just March. This being after we were told to just wait for the new contract, then after we got crickets when that was ratified, we were told wait for retirement buyouts, then we will learn more. Well contract came and went and apparently some of those eligible for buyout have started receiving the information in the mail. Yet somehow we are still stuck in pergatory.

 

This situation is particularly infuriating to me since I've been doing a job of a guy who literally showed up for 3 days and 1 hour throughout the entire month of January, yet he's still employed, but by all means, lay me off at the absolute first possibility after never missing a day that wasn't scheduled (going back to May 2013 when I first started at MAP) and being late twice, one time due to flat tire and the other due to sleeping through an alarm. Obviously the former I couldn't really control.

 

So once again, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in a system that has repeatedly let me down, and continues to do so? It's getting more and more difficult every day.

 

/rant. Long winded I know but I need to get that off my chest.

Like another poster said that is the bad part of being a low seniority worker.Once you get a few years in that should stabilize you a bit.Seniority is one one the many benefits of being a Union member.At least in a Union shop if there are layoffs they have to go by seniority instead of I am the bosses son or I am a first class butt kisser.I have been at Ford almost 28 years and have worked at non union places.I will take the Union any day over anything non Union.Is the Union perfect? No it is not but it is still the best deal around for a blue collar working man hands down.So it is not the union letting you down it is the union doing its job of protecting higher seniority workers.Hang in there it will get better the more time you have in.Stay positive and talk to your union officials.Bashing them and yelling at them will accomplish nothing trust me I know LOL.

Edited February 9, 2016 by cecilmeyer

[Dayshift]

fuzzymoomoo, I am sorry you are going through all this. I know its does not make it any better but understand we all went through similar situations when we hired in.

 

I have a friend who has worked at 7, yes S E V E N Ford plants in 20 years. I know another guy who work for 89 day 7 times with layoffs in between before he became a permanent worker. I know several others who went to school for 3 years and trained as an apprentice to be laid off and returned to production. I know its not fair but it is what it is.

 

Could our union do better, YES. Will they do better, I sure hope so. They could do many things better but scrapping the union is not the answer. The people I know who work in no union auto suppliers have it much worse. Those workers who were spun off to Visteon all came back to Ford because of the Union. The signing bonus and raises were because of the Union. The profit sharing check are because of our hard work but also because of collective bargaining done by the union. Should you be unhappy with the service you have gotten from your union? Yes You should but throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the answer.

 

We need to stick together and demand more from those we elect to represent us both in Washington and at Solidarity House in Detroit. Does any one out there have any info for fuzzymoomoo or know where they can get some?

[J-150]

What you have now isn't the union way. It's now a business entity that sells you a service. Solidarity has moved out of the way for profit.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I understand that's how it is as a low seniority worker, and I'm cool with that part. It is what it is. I'm frustrated with the complete and total lack of communication on every level. Every single person I've asked with the union about what's going on has given me the now trademarked response of "I'll find out and let you know" only to never hear back from them. I've even tried sending a message to the UAW/Ford Facebook account only to be met with (surprise surprise) crickets. What should I do next, march downtown and knock on Jimmy Settles office door?

[dingman1]

you get crickets, , because they don't know, HALF OF WHAT THEY DO IS DONE OFF THE CUFF AND ON THE FLY, they negotiate things once every 4 years and act like what is achieved is a total surprise, instead of forward thinking and saying I am asking for this and that, not sure what is going to be, but I can do some on paper planning to help with transition for what becomes a reality.instead those powers do what you see as an end result, piss poor communication, zero planning. With mass media and the internet their disregard for us becomes more and more evident not every day, but every minute, and also remember the internet scares them, it takes away their ultimate power, knowledge, if they don't share with you , they don't have to answer to you

[cal50]

Welcome to the life of a low seniority autoworker..thats how it is sometimes,

 

 

Like another poster said that is the bad part of being a low seniority worker.

 

 

 

Seniority has jack shit to do with the communication or keeping people informed.

( We pay for it )

 

It's really too bad with the millions of dollars the UAW takes in from all of its members they do not have a real interactive web site or forum to post questions and see real answers but everyone knows that will never happen. Try finding a real phone number or email contact for UAW "executives" directly....

 

The IUAW stresses "chain of command" but when the chain is broken it does not work and the people at the top really do not give a crap IMHO.

[cecilmeyer]

 

 

 

 

 

Seniority has jack shit to do with the communication or keeping people informed.

( We pay for it )

 

It's really too bad with the millions of dollars the UAW takes in from all of its members they do not have a real interactive web site or forum to post questions and see real answers but everyone knows that will never happen. Try finding a real phone number or email contact for UAW "executives" directly....

 

The IUAW stresses "chain of command" but when the chain is broken it does not work and the people at the top really do not give a crap IMHO.

Seniority has everything to do with being laid off,being transferred etc.The lack of communication is another matter.My advice to fuzzy is too keep on your officials.Do not let up till you have an answer.Many of them have so much going on they forget unless you remind them.That being said there are some bad ones who are just do not care.But again KEEP on them do not stop until you have an answer.

Edited February 11, 2016 by cecilmeyer

[cal50]

Seniority has everything to do with being laid off,being transferred etc.The lack of communication is another matter.

 

 

(no shit)

[JT32]

Please explain something to me. How am I supposed to have faith in the system, when the system has repeatedly failed me (and a few hundred others) over the past year?

 

It was around this time a year ago (give or take a few weeks) when 675 of us found out that we would no longer be employed at the Ford Michigan Assembly Plant. A few months later through means still unknown to us that number was whittled down to about 275 by the time the drop dead date of June 21, 2015 hit. It's a day that I won't forget for a while because me, like the 275 or so others and later a few hundred more have had my life literally on hold since then.

 

Now I, like many others, signed up for a temporary assignment at another plant, knowing that it wouldn't be permanent, but being a chance that it could be. I don't know what those at other plants were told at their makeshift orientation sessions, but the 40 or so of us at FRAP were told that the assignment would end on September 6th. That day came and went and what did we hear from the union? Crickets. Nothing. Not even so much as a see you Monday. Christmas came and went and same thing. We were supposed to be laid off going into the holiday shutdown (what a kick in the crotch of a Christmas gift that would have been eh?) and again from our union, nothing.

 

Now again I've heard that we are going to be laid off again in March. Nothing on a specific date, just March. This being after we were told to just wait for the new contract, then after we got crickets when that was ratified, we were told wait for retirement buyouts, then we will learn more. Well contract came and went and apparently some of those eligible for buyout have started receiving the information in the mail. Yet somehow we are still stuck in pergatory.

 

This situation is particularly infuriating to me since I've been doing a job of a guy who literally showed up for 3 days and 1 hour throughout the entire month of January, yet he's still employed, but by all means, lay me off at the absolute first possibility after never missing a day that wasn't scheduled (going back to May 2013 when I first started at MAP) and being late twice, one time due to flat tire and the other due to sleeping through an alarm. Obviously the former I couldn't really control.

 

So once again, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in a system that has repeatedly let me down, and continues to do so? It's getting more and more difficult every day.

 

/rant. Long winded I know but I need to get that off my chest.

When and from whom did you hear layoff in March? I heard MAP might be getting one, would that stil affect us that are at other plants on assignment?

[fuzzymoomoo]

We were supposed to be laid off going into X-mas shutdown but were given a 3 month extension, hence. ILO in March

[JT32]

Right but we've also had two extensions already, why do you think we won't be extended again

[cecilmeyer]

 

 

(no shit)

You Sir have a real attitude problem with the UAW.Are you going to be one of those individuals who opt out because you think the Union has done nothing for you? Do you have anything good to say about the UAW at all?

[Decker]

Cecil, what makes you such a defender of the IUAW? Is it that you still believe in the union ideology that was once the driving force for the unions very being?

 

Have you looked around lately? Who of the membership receives the most work by or attention of our elected representatives? Have you ever wonder how so many people get discharged for attendance and get called back? Ever work around those members that just don`t have to do any operational task, because of who they are? Have you ever been told (asked) to pick up for another member because they won`t do the operation? Cecil, you have to realize that the membership as a whole pays in one way or another for this complete disregard of contract language and the very union ideology.

 

I respect your steadfast defense of the IUAW but, do you realize that putting any group of the membership above another or using any group of the membership as the pawn to secure unwarranted benefits for another group is what has put the union in the situation it`s in today.

 

Or is your defensive stance based on all the factual information being communicated so readily and timely from the IUAW?

 

I find it interesting that we have those members still defending the IUAW actions, in a blind, no questions manner.

 

I`ll save you the question, "yes" I have an attitude problem with all the "great and wonderful" and "we all should be happy campers talk". Especially when members (friends) can`t get a straight answer on where they might be working in a few months or friends that might not be going home as it was suggested or insinuated in a timely manner as it was communicated.

 

I`m wondering if any down time in Michigan might slow any transfers or the returning home process?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Decker

[fuzzymoomoo]

Right but we've also had two extensions already, why do you think we won't be extended again

Because I haven't heard a single thing from anyone that's even remotely close to indicating that might happen.

[stampman]

Please explain something to me. How am I supposed to have faith in the system, when the system has repeatedly failed me (and a few hundred others) over the past year?

It was around this time a year ago (give or take a few weeks) when 675 of us found out that we would no longer be employed at the Ford Michigan Assembly Plant. A few months later through means still unknown to us that number was whittled down to about 275 by the time the drop dead date of June 21, 2015 hit. It's a day that I won't forget for a while because me, like the 275 or so others and later a few hundred more have had my life literally on hold since then.

Now I, like many others, signed up for a temporary assignment at another plant, knowing that it wouldn't be permanent, but being a chance that it could be. I don't know what those at other plants were told at their makeshift orientation sessions, but the 40 or so of us at FRAP were told that the assignment would end on September 6th. That day came and went and what did we hear from the union? Crickets. Nothing. Not even so much as a see you Monday. Christmas came and went and same thing. We were supposed to be laid off going into the holiday shutdown (what a kick in the crotch of a Christmas gift that would have been eh?) and again from our union, nothing.

Now again I've heard that we are going to be laid off again in March. Nothing on a specific date, just March. This being after we were told to just wait for the new contract, then after we got crickets when that was ratified, we were told wait for retirement buyouts, then we will learn more. Well contract came and went and apparently some of those eligible for buyout have started receiving the information in the mail. Yet somehow we are still stuck in pergatory.

This situation is particularly infuriating to me since I've been doing a job of a guy who literally showed up for 3 days and 1 hour throughout the entire month of January, yet he's still employed, but by all means, lay me off at the absolute first possibility after never missing a day that wasn't scheduled (going back to May 2013 when I first started at MAP) and being late twice, one time due to flat tire and the other due to sleeping through an alarm. Obviously the former I couldn't really control.

So once again, how in the hell am I supposed to have faith in a system that has repeatedly let me down, and continues to do so? It's getting more and more difficult every day.

/rant. Long winded I know but I need to get that off my chest.

So you are upset that you are still working??? If you don't like the uncertainty, look for another job. When you get some seniority, things may get better. There are many of us that got laid off with ten plus years back in 2008.

[fuzzymoomoo]

So you are upset that you are still working??? If you don't like the uncertainty, look for another job. When you get some seniority, things may get better. There are many of us that got laid off with ten plus years back in 2008.

You clearly don't get it. Yes I'm still working, no I don't have a permanent job. None of us have been told what's going on. I can promise you that you were told more in 2008 than we have been. That's the issue. Perhaps you should read through that again.

[JT32]

You clearly don't get it. Yes I'm still working, no I don't have a permanent job. None of us have been told what's going on. I can promise you that you were told more in 2008 than we have been. That's the issue. Perhaps you should read through that again.

I wasn't told anything about the last extension other than it "might get approved" by a bargaining rep at FRAP. Never heard another thing, it's mid February and I've still never been told that we got extended in December...

[fuzzymoomoo]

I wasn't told anything about the last extension other than it "might get approved" by a bargaining rep at FRAP. Never heard another thing, it's mid February and I've still never been told that we got extended in December...

Then you and I are on the same page

[tooltime]

Get used to the ups and downs of the auto industry.

 

I was laid off more than I worked for the first 5 years of employment.

 

The UAW does a pretty good job now a days with keeping us working. I know many trades that were laid off starting with the 2008 bush economic meltdown through 2011. The UAW was able to keep most trades working temporary in different units until they could be placed permanently.

 

Buckle up for a bumpy ride if you are low seniority....................... we are in the 6th year of economic expansion and history shows every 7 years a recession boils up and shifts get laid off.

 

Hold on tight and be thankful the UAW can negotiate voluntary employment in different units until permanent placement.

 

Back in the "old days" we had "sub credits" and no opportunity for voluntary temporary assignment,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, basically ran out of sub credits and unemployment in 6 months and no income or benefits.

 

Temporary UAW negotiated opportunities are a blessing to keep employment and benefits.

Edited February 18, 2016 by tooltime

[cecilmeyer]

Cecil, what makes you such a defender of the IUAW? Is it that you still believe in the union ideology that was once the driving force for the unions very being?

 

Have you looked around lately? Who of the membership receives the most work by or attention of our elected representatives? Have you ever wonder how so many people get discharged for attendance and get called back? Ever work around those members that just don`t have to do any operational task, because of who they are? Have you ever been told (asked) to pick up for another member because they won`t do the operation? Cecil, you have to realize that the membership as a whole pays in one way or another for this complete disregard of contract language and the very union ideology.

 

I respect your steadfast defense of the IUAW but, do you realize that putting any group of the membership above another or using any group of the membership as the pawn to secure unwarranted benefits for another group is what has put the union in the situation it`s in today.

 

Or is your defensive stance based on all the factual information being communicated so readily and timely from the IUAW?

 

I find it interesting that we have those members still defending the IUAW actions, in a blind, no questions manner.

 

I`ll save you the question, "yes" I have an attitude problem with all the "great and wonderful" and "we all should be happy campers talk". Especially when members (friends) can`t get a straight answer on where they might be working in a few months or friends that might not be going home as it was suggested or insinuated in a timely manner as it was communicated.

 

I`m wondering if any down time in Michigan might slow any transfers or the returning home process?

Never once have I stated the the UAW is without flaw.What I am saying and will continue to do is this.I do not know how the UAW managed to save our jobs with our pensions when the the big 3 could have just shut down all operations in the U.S but they did and yes I know it was government money too.There have been so many unions busted in the last decade it is a wonder the UAW is still around.So all you guys do is look at all the bad and the small picture.I look at all the good and the bigger picture.Can the union be improved yes it can. My question to you and all others with your attitudes towards the union.Would you be better off without the UAW? Happy camper no just not a continual complainer who can find no good in anything the UAW does.And you speak of Union ideology?Ever ask many of your fellow Union members how they feel about unity?I have heard more than once "Well if it does not effect me I do not care" or I am voting republican.The Union is just a reflection of the people it.People complain and cast stones at the union but exhibit the same behavior that they criticize the Union for.I have had very few problems over my almost 28 years that I could not get resolved.And no I am no union pet ,I come to work and have been out on medical once for 6 weeks in almost 28 years.As far as getting workers back that will not work is that something new??????????They have been doing that since I hired in and they usually end up getting fired again permanently.

[Decker]

You know Cecil, you are right, way to much negativity on my part.

 

I`m sure that it`s my failure to comprehend the benefit`s and the reasoning behind the last two or three contracts. Concessions to secure employment, yeah I can comprehend that and understood the reasoning behind it, based on the information given by the IUAW prior to ratification. But then the truth came out about regaining those concessions. I`m sure we would agree that persuading members to ratify an agreement that would allow for members to work years as TPT, LTS and etc. without gaining full time status or seniority was just less then favorable. Then persuading members that it would be in their best interest to allow for members to do the same operations for half of what others were being paid, was not the best signal to be sending the world when referencing the value of our labor, would you agree?

 

To look at the bright side, as you make the point that I should, we just received a contract with all the benefits. I like you will see two increases in our hourly rates. We see members being brought up to very respectable hourly rates. Then there are the lump`s that we will receive over the next four years. All bright spot`s in any members sky.

 

Let`s just say the melt down started in 2006, the other two did a great job of whining and received the tax payers (members) money to float their boat. Ford on the other hand (great business minds) said naaa we good. Pretty much from that point on it`s been a continuous deposit in the Ford profit column. Now I know you`ll say, your back siding Decker.... we got raises, we didn`t lose anything and look at the lump`s. Ok, Ok... bright spot.

 

You like me will be at an hourly rate at the end of this current contract, equal to that of an hourly rate of what we would have been at in, lets be conservative, 2010. (Ford`s non stop yearly profits started second quarter 2009) Sept. 2018 we will be at the hourly rate we would have reached if we had received just two 3% increases in that year after Ford said, naaa we good. Now as far as the wage increases for the entry level, even at the respectable wages they currently receive they like us will never be able to build back any of the years earnings that we didn`t receive hourly increases or they didn`t receive when you and I were making twice what they were while doing the same labor. As far as benefits, well those "new traditional" (nice ring to it but. really still tier 2) will never see what you and I receive.

 

Ok....OK.... BRIGHT SPOT..... We get our lumps and the thankfulness that Ford will keep us employed. I`ve got sessions set up to work on the negativity.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Decker

[cal50]

 

The UAW does a pretty good job now a days with keeping us working.

 

 

Really ?

Please explain.

 

Work is proportionate to vehicle design and sales of a retail product to the consumer / public.

How exactly does the UAW "do a pretty good job" with vehicle sales or anything else that impacts inventory?

 

The UAW is great at keeping it staff working including weekends even when there is no one in the plant*

 

 

 

 

 

*except contractors while many trades are not permitted to do available work because it was sourced out.

[cal50]

You Sir have a real attitude problem with the UAW.Are you going to be one of those individuals who opt out because you think the Union has done nothing for you? Do you have anything good to say about the UAW at all?

 

 

No, I have a opinion (strong) based on facts, experience, and what I see daily that spans decades.

I am entitled to my opinion , especially when I am paying for something.

 

Opting out is not an option available but if or when it is its a consideration.

 

"Anything good to say about the UAW ?"

Nada, zip, zero today.

 

The UAW is now a self serving organization that collects dues and has its own agenda with the focus not on its members.

(Opinion)

 

Face it if the only way you can get and keep members is by forced membership its a sad statement of affairs.

 

With the millions of our dollars spent on "organizing " what really is to show for it ? Organizing is great for the UAW bottom line but we all pay more now because they decided so.

How about the millions spent on politics to try to sway laws to eliminate worker choice ( see forced membership above ). Pretty sad.

 

The UAW is responsible for its own public image and reputation, not anyone else especially the people funding them.