pmooret Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Let's discuss COLA. In years past when our contract was negotiated the total amount of our COLA during the life of the previous contract was added to our base rate. When the first COLA raise was due on the new contract, instead of taking it we opted to give it to the retirees. I noticed in FCA & GM contracts that COLA was not reinstated and if memory serves me right we now receive an "Inflation Bonus Check". The sad part about this type of structure is that the retirees don't get a raise. That's why the company doesn't want to give back the COLA but instead give you an Inflation Bonus Check, it saves them money even though it is at the expense of the retirees. So whenever we accept a contract that doesn't include COLA with the first raise being deferred to the retirees we are the ones screwing the retirees. As Decker stated, the retirees also had their Christmas Bonus/13th payment ($500) taken away from them too. We need to demand that the COLA be reinstated along with the one time deferred raise going to the retirees. The Christmas Bonus isn't a sticking point for me but retirees should get theirs back. When you get to the pearly gates what is going to be your excuse for not taking care of the old folks? So COLA and a raise in the LIB or vote no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Let's discuss COLA. In years past when our contract was negotiated the total amount of our COLA during the life of the previous contract was added to our base rate. When the first COLA raise was due on the new contract, instead of taking it we opted to give it to the retirees. I noticed in FCA & GM contracts that COLA was not reinstated and if memory serves me right we now receive an "Inflation Bonus Check". The sad part about this type of structure is that the retirees don't get a raise. That's why the company doesn't want to give back the COLA but instead give you an Inflation Bonus Check, it saves them money even though it is at the expense of the retirees. So whenever we accept a contract that doesn't include COLA with the first raise being deferred to the retirees we are the ones screwing the retirees. As Decker stated, the retirees also had their Christmas Bonus/13th payment ($500) taken away from them too. We need to demand that the COLA be reinstated along with the one time deferred raise going to the retirees. The Christmas Bonus isn't a sticking point for me but retirees should get theirs back. When you get to the pearly gates what is going to be your excuse for not taking care of the old folks? So COLA and a raise in the LIB or vote no. Great information. The complete stoping at age 62, of the bridge benefit was never talked about very much and to this day no one wants to discuss this during negotiations. Ever wonder why Ford and IUAW agreed to a bridge benefit that dosen`t go all the way across the river? age 66? Over the years the full retirement age has and is creeping up. At one time (I think) yes 65 years put a person in line for full social secruity benefits, now it`s 66 and 6 months and going up. Why then has the bridge benefit never changed? At this point the bridge benefit is right at $1500 a month and that as you stated stops at 62 years old. Now when I asked questions of the IUAW rep`s the first thing they stated was you are not required to apply for social secruity to continue recieving your pension....? Of course that would give that average income from just the pension fund at about $1600 a month without appling for early social secruity benefits, which is reduced by close to 24% based on the fact of 62 being considered as "early" retirement. All in all check into this bottom line because most people... don`t. Then one day the letter comes and most just get on line and apply for social secruity not realizing that the bridge benefit is about $600 to $700 more a month then what they will get from "an early" social security benefit per month. Why can`t this be an issue on the table? I for one turn in this as a contract resolution every 4 years for the last 4 contracts.... and nothing? Edited October 30, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshift Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Thank you PMOORET: Most of what you stated I was already aware of, but you stated it articulately & with clear examples. We need "moore" of that around here. Please continue to post the facts for us instead of the made up junk we get from some of the posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshift Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) PMOORE: It might also be helpful to post what no cola and no raise over the past 12 years cost the average employee over the last 12 years. I think the average member knows it is significant but has no idea how much money it is we have given up. Edited October 30, 2015 by Dayshift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 One other thing that no one seems to want to discuss or talk about is the fact that the pension fund is now capped for benefit pay outs. With the end of the defined pension plan benefits for all tier 2 or "in progression employees" there is a known number of members that will receive benefits in the future. This alone was agreed to as a way to reduce the required payments to the pension fund by Ford and for that matter all 3 of the pension plans. I'm sure capping future payments was studied very deeply by all three companies. Along with the companies studying the large cost saving by the three reductions, payments to the fund, no new beneficiaries added to the fund and the inevitable reduction of members receiving benefits from the pension fund. With all three of these reductions in cost to Ford why then hasn't the IUAW brought up at least a change in the bridge benefit? If not in the bridge benefit amount but at least moving the end date to a more realistic "full retirement age". 65? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hopefully someone else will do that. My tech/research skills aren't that good. Anybody out there want to enlighten us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madime39 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The so called Strike Deadline was nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make the membership believe that a deal was not already done. Probably been done for weeks. Considering that they "voted" on Wednesday AND handed out the highlights to members (and the media) the same day, I'd say you're right - it's been done for weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Dayshift...........I did just that for a 10 year period......... check here for my other postings........... Just $1 comes to $23,000 with 500 hours of OT.......... Know one can say who big a raise or what COLA would have been but I'm sure it would be more then "a buck",,,,,,,,, for a 12 year period and using $1 it would be over $27,000.......... Remember that's $1 and nothing else......... Edited October 31, 2015 by lastmanstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) PMOORE: It might also be helpful to post what no cola and no raise over the past 12 years cost the average employee over the last 12 years. I think the average member knows it is significant but has no idea how much money it is we have given up. COLA would be hard, but not impossible to figure out because of the continuous changing in the formula. lastmanstanding did a conservative estimate of a dollar per hour for raises and this gave a good look at the money we have allowed, with the help of the IUAW, Ford to keep over the last 10 or 12 years. I posted awhile back something that will show what "my" hourly rate would have been if I would have received only 5 years of the 3% increases that would have been applied to my hourly rate. 1st year $28.48 @ .03 = .85 = $29.33 2nd year $29.33 @ .03 = .88 = $30.21 3rd year $30.21 @ .03 = .90 = $31.11 4th year $31.11 @ .03 = .93 = $32.04 5th year $32.04 @ .03 = .96 = $33.00 Just five years, being conservative, not the full ten years of no increases of 3 percent in my hourly rate would be a total of $4.52 an hour increase for a total hourly rate of $33.00. This hourly rate increase would increase such benefits as your monthly pension benefit. Almost every benefit that a member receives is calculated with our hourly rate. This would be conservative and allowing for five bad years of earnings at Ford in the last ten year with no increase to our hourly rate. A repair classified member would have went into this contract year with $33.00 an hour to start with. Then consider that the last five years have generated record profits for Ford. It would have been nice to have our business agents sit down with not only the $4.52 under our belts and having the ability to sell the facts about the actual profits that the membership helped generated. "Productivity" of the membership is what makes the record number of products that are sold to make the record profits. If you were to use the "$4.52" as a factor and multiply that by the average years worth of hours worked "2080" you will see that just last year alone that would figure out to be a $9,401.96 savings for Ford on every repair classified UAW member. This would be even more with every hour you would have worked as "overtime" last year. On every first RDO hours worked, you are missing that $4.52 and that would become $6.78 added to every hour worked. On each 12 hour first RDO we gave back, $81.36. On every third RDO hours worked, you are missing that $4.52 and that would become $9.04 added to every hour worked. On each 12 hour third RDO we gave back, $108.48. Based on the "GM" tentative agreement I would see a 3% hourly increase of .85 cents. That 3% increase would put me at a total base hourly rate of $29.33. This with a possible $8000 signing bonus. Now if one was to think about this, $29.33 is the exact same hourly rate "$29.33" that I would have been at "10" years ago. Then if one was to think about the total of just five 3% increases, and that figuring out to be $9,401.96 of money we gave back in just the last year. One would see a clearer picture of where we stand with the record breaking profit producing company, Ford. 2004 if I had received 3% = $29.33 base per hour - 2015 if I receive 3% = $29.33 base per hour 2015 signing bonus = $8000.00 - 2014 lost wages "no accumulation of the five 3% increases" = $9,401.96 IUAW believes it all balances out and its a good contract...? and you retiree`s can go to Wal-Mart and spend all of that $500 gift (<---- gift? or insult?) card.... Wait can that "gift card" be applied to the ever raising co - pays generated by the ever popular VEBA? Edited November 1, 2015 by Decker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 COLA would be hard, but not impossible to figure out because of the continuous changing in the formula. lastmanstanding did a conservative estimate of a dollar per hour for raises and this gave a good look at the money we have allowed, with the help of the IUAW, Ford to keep over the last 10 or 12 years. I posted awhile back something that will show what "my" hourly rate would have been if I would have received only 5 years of the 3% increases that would have been applied to my hourly rate. 1st year $28.48 @ .03 = .85 = $29.33 2nd year $29.33 @ .03 = .88 = $30.21 3rd year $30.21 @ .03 = .90 = $31.11 4th year $31.11 @ .03 = .93 = $32.04 5th year $32.04 @ .03 = .96 = $33.00 Just five years, being conservative, not the full ten years of no increases of 3 percent in my hourly rate would be a total of $4.52 an hour increase for a total hourly rate of $33.00. This hourly rate increase would increase such benefits as your monthly pension benefit. Almost every benefit that a member receives is calculated with our hourly rate. This would be conservative and allowing for five bad years of earnings at Ford in the last ten year with no increase to our hourly rate. A repair classified member would have went into this contract year with $33.00 an hour to start with. Then consider that the last five years have generated record profits for Ford. It would have been nice to have our business agents sit down with not only the $4.52 under our belts and having the ability to sell the facts about the actual profits that the membership helped generated. "Productivity" of the membership is what makes the record number of products that are sold to make the record profits. If you were to use the "$4.52" as a factor and multiply that by the average years worth of hours worked "2080" you will see that just last year alone that would figure out to be a $9,401.96 savings for Ford on every repair classified UAW member. This would be even more with every hour you would have worked as "overtime" last year. On every first RDO hours worked, you are missing that $4.52 and that would become $6.78 added to every hour worked. On each 12 hour first RDO we gave back, $81.36. On every third RDO hours worked, you are missing that $4.52 and that would become $9.04 added to every hour worked. On each 12 hour third RDO we gave back, $108.48. Based on the "GM" tentative agreement I would see a 3% hourly increase of .85 cents. That 3% increase would put me at a total base hourly rate of $29.33. This with a possible $8000 signing bonus. Now if one was to think about this, $29.33 is the exact same hourly rate "$29.33" that I would have been at "10" years ago. Then if one was to think about the total of just five 3% increases, and that figuring out to be $9,401.96 of money we gave back in just the last year. One would see a clearer picture of where we stand with the record breaking profit producing company, Ford. 2004 if I had received 3% = $29.33 base per hour - 2015 if I receive 3% = $29.33 base per hour 2015 signing bonus = $8000.00 - 2014 lost wages "no accumulation of the five 3% increases" = $9,401.96 IUAW believes it all balances out and its a good contract...? and you retiree`s can go to Wal-Mart and spend all of that $500 gift (<---- gift? or insult?) card.... Wait can that "gift card" be applied to the ever raising co - pays generated by the ever popular VEBA? Good job Decker.............. As you can see from this............ Lots of money involved and that's not all............ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks Decker for taking the time to do the research for the post. Our plant, LAP, is located dead across the street from the UPS central hub at the airport. The only thing that separates us is a traffic light. We have always compared our wages to the UPS drivers as they are Teamsters and our salaries have been historically comparable. According to a poster on our local website the drivers at UPS currently have a hourly rate of $35. While a lot of folks think that the new contracts with FCA and GM are good actually they are not. There should be a very large raise for legacy employees upon ratification. People say oh you'll never get it, but looking at your post folks can see how much money this company has saved over the years from all of these concessions and now they are getting use to it. That needs to change. Don't forget too that Ford cut out clean up and convoy jobs and these are now done by folks who are making pitiful wages. Plus people need to remember that our wage accounts for only 7% of the cost of a vehicle. Yet when you listen to the company at contract time they act like Chicken Little and cry the only way to keep the sky from falling is to keep our salaries stagnant. It's a poker game, they are bluffing and we need to CALL their hand. Just a feel good note: Back in the '90's UPS was on strike and was protesting all up and down the streets in front of their workplace (airport) carrying signs. We were going through a launch/model change and only worked four hours that day. It was summertime and still daylight so many of our folks loaded up in their cars and beds of trucks and drove up and down along their picket line honking our horns and waving. Needless to say they were thrilled, thanked us and even had a brew together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) You're welcome , pmooret.One other thing that seems to be forgot or not talked about much, is the fact that the IUAW is paid to represent sub tier 2 hourly rate employees doing cleanup work in our plants throughout the Ford system and have allowed for outside contracting of some of the incidental skilled trades work at sub tear 2 wages also. (house painting) I make this point because in all actuality we've lost cleanup operations and we've lost house painting operations all of which were not paid at hourly rates that were far from the higher rates earn in production or the trades but were paid at good middle class wages. Then there are the trades that we have lost at CAP, stationary engineer`s that we just let slip away.The members doing this work (clean up and house painting) are paying dues on $12 or so an hour. I can't start figuring out the savings Ford is taking to the bank on just these members wages alone. But, I won't even start to figure out the loss of dues to the IUAW from what the past members were making as a classified clean up person made compared to the sub middle class wages being paid now.The reason I can't start figuring that loss of dues is because someone in the IUAW just said to hell with those operations we will get that loss or difference in dues from everyone by raising the number of hours paid as dues across the board to all members.Our best interests first.....? Edited November 1, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) There is a number I posted back when Ford made its first record profit year..... (this was a few years back so, I can`t remember off hand exactly so bare with the old long hair) and that number was over $9750.00 that's nine thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars, not a year, not a month, not a day, not an hour, each and every (correction-->) "minute" of every day of one year... in profit. In North America. Yep, just a little figuring on the year end profit ($5.1 billion) posted by Ford, divided by some time, 365 days, 24 hours per day, 60 minutes in a hour and you will get a really clear picture of the number that got me calls from solid house and the regional play pen all with the same message "we don`t think its necessary to pass on that type of information brother Decker"... How many minutes does it take to pay a full years earnings and full benefits of one tier 1, "legacy" member? Now reduce that by close to half the number of minutes for tier 2, "in progression" members. Then think about how many minutes it takes for a full years earning of the clean up members.... how many units pass by you, before your years earning has been paid in full? This year is going to be a record of all records in profit making so, there should be a really interesting number per minute. Edited November 2, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptObvious Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 as long as our is bit better then gm's i dont have a problem with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjake Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 First go around shouldn't pass I am with downtime1. Can't trust UAW or the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) The so called Strike Deadline was nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make the membership believe that a deal was not already done. Probably been done for weeks. Quote the Free Press.... "The union has issued strike deadlines for both GM and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, but the two automakers have been able to hammer out agreements minutes before both deadlines. But apparently Ford and the union were able to come to an agreement without the threat of a strike." Surprise...... Surprise..... You couldn`t have been more correct, trailfndr. Strike vote taken after sitting at the table was a good sign along with the strike deadlines that was just some really bad acting bullshit. "It`s our time" really Dennis really? Following in the foot prints of the worst presidents of the IUAW ever, what else should we expect? I can hear big Jimmy now... use better be thankful use have a J-O-B... as he`s packing his bags and getting his retirement bonus before becoming a full time BCBS consultant. Edited November 7, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Great information. The complete stoping at age 62, of the bridge benefit was never talked about very much and to this day no one wants to discuss this during negotiations. Ever wonder why Ford and IUAW agreed to a bridge benefit that dosen`t go all the way across the river? age 66? Over the years the full retirement age has and is creeping up. At one time (I think) yes 65 years put a person in line for full social secruity benefits, now it`s 66 and 6 months and going up. Why then has the bridge benefit never changed? At this point the bridge benefit is right at $1500 a month and that as you stated stops at 62 years old. Now when I asked questions of the IUAW rep`s the first thing they stated was you are not required to apply for social secruity to continue recieving your pension....? Of course that would give that average income from just the pension fund at about $1600 a month without appling for early social secruity benefits, which is reduced by close to 24% based on the fact of 62 being considered as "early" retirement. All in all check into this bottom line because most people... don`t. Then one day the letter comes and most just get on line and apply for social secruity not realizing that the bridge benefit is about $600 to $700 more a month then what they will get from "an early" social security benefit per month. Why can`t this be an issue on the table? I for one turn in this as a contract resolution every 4 years for the last 4 contracts.... and nothing? Are you saying you believe supplemental retirement (bridge) is 600 or 700 dollars more than SS at 62? I disagree.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Are you saying you believe supplemental retirement (bridge) is 600 or 700 dollars more than SS at 62? I disagree.... No need to agree or dis agree, the numbers are in general. The point was, the average member, in general will see a reduction from the full social security monthly benefit which only comes into play when one reaches a certain set age to qualify for that full amount of the monthly benefit. When the bridge benefit ends a member has reached 62 years of age. To replace the bridge benefit amount of income that at 62 ends, most a generalization, members apply for social security benefits. At 62 the social security administration will automatically reduce (penalize you for an early retirement) by close to a quarter of your "full" social security benefit. So at 62 you will receive three quarters of your "full" social security benefit. The generalization of the numbers are only used because there are very few people with the same social security benefit and with the differences in the factors to determine a pension benefit along with the fact that pension benefits differ because of when a pension starts, the monthly benefits might be close but never the exact same. I will be reduced in my monthly income by more than I want to be. Because Ford and IUAW agree I don`t need a bridge benefit until my age reaches the government set requirement for full benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'm not sure what you are saying there but I can tell you I retired at 52 and I will get more money from SS than my Ford Supplemental is....I was surprised also...Thought retiring early would knock my SS down considerably but it didn't. Don't buy into what you've heard...retire anytime you have 30 if you think you can...if you have your debt in order, your pension should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what you are saying there but I can tell you I retired at 52 and I will get more money from SS than my Ford Supplemental is....I was surprised also...Thought retiring early would knock my SS down considerably but it didn't. Don't buy into what you've heard...retire anytime you have 30 if you think you can...if you have your debt in order, your pension should work. You stopped active employment at Ford, at 52 and you started receiving your pension benefit and bridge benefit right? Did you become employed after leaving your active employment at Ford? If you were employed did you reach the amount where they start the reduction of your monthly benefit? I can`t remember, is that reduction (Income earned above a certain amount above your monthly benefit) dollar for dollar? Will you or did you apply for early social security benefit at age 62? With no income other than your pension and bridge benefit for ten years before you apply for an early social security benefit and your social security will be more than the bridge benefit? I too, would be surprised if that could happen. Don`t hold me to the exact dollar amount, I will receive (give or take) $3140 for both pension and bridge a month. Now if I don`t work for ten years before I start an early social security benefit at 62, my social security monthly payment will be more than my bridge benefit? Do you have a survivor benefit being deducted? Do you have any co pays with med`s or doctors visit`s? Having the debt in order is a good thing but, what I keep hearing from retiree`s is all the different out of pocket costs that just keep going up, this is one of the major problems with any reductions in monthly income. Edited November 9, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 lots of questions....no real employment after retiring....make about 2000 a year goofing off at a golf course...survivor benefit yes...of course i have the normal bills that are my responsibility from our VEBA. I was told by our benefit rep that I wouldn't see much reduction in SS even with not contributing much since retiring...he was 100% correct...my SS is approx. 200 more per month than my bridge benefit....let's not be passing bad info on here...it's a big decision to retire...if you don't KNOW why comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Let me simplify this Social Security thing. I understand that your supplement (bridge benefit) and social security were within $200 of each other, that's nothing. Here's the BIG difference and I will be using estimates and rounded numbers, but I have researched this. If you retire at 62 (or before) Social Security considers that an "Early Retirement" and they reduce your benefit. It comes in somewhere around $1600-$1700. If you work another job, they also penalize you if you make over $15000-16000 year. For every year that you work PAST 62 your Social Security benefit goes up by $150 a year. Once you reach 66 there is no reduction in benefit if you work another job and no matter how much you make. So if you retire at: 62 = $1600 66 = $2,200 67 = $2,350 68 = $2,500 Everyone needs to go to the Social Security website and use the retirement estimate calculator. If you have already retired and your spouse has not, use your spouse's info for an estimate. Go to the bottom of the page and click on "Retirement Calculator" https://www.ssa.gov/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I am about 3 years away from retirement eligibility, so I need to start looking into it...but am I missing something? My understanding is when you begin to collect social security the amount that you get comes straight off your Ford pension. My father-in-law was making about $3500 month retirement and when his social security kicked in at approx. $1700 his pension was reduced that much. So instead of getting a $3500 check a month from Ford he gets a $1800 from Ford and a $1700 from Social Security. If that's the case what difference does it matter what is paid because Ford will reduce the difference. I am sure I am missing something but as I draw closer I need to start looking into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The Supplemental portion of your check before 62 is approx. $1445. That will drop off at 62. SS will begin and you will get X amount. The 2 aren't relative to each other. we all will have different amounts due us from SS...I think you will find that the supplemental is going to be less than SS....Unless you want to keep working, don't be afraid you will lose money at 62...not gonna happen...Also once you turn 62 you will get credit for any time you have over 30... Edited November 9, 2015 by longball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Pmooret...I see the numbers and know it is a tough choice to retire....If you have any hobbies or a passion for anything I would encourage you to think about taking whatever time you have left and spend that time with people you love and doing things you enjoy. I can't tell you how valuable your time is if you are active enough to enjoy it....I don't need anymore junk, so there is no need for the extra income that comes from continuing to work....To me, my freedom is worth much more than the added income...much more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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