Ford and IUAW want all health care in VEBA

[Slipperyelectron]

Sorry I couldn't load article. Ford and IUAW are in talks now to place all hourly and salary health care into a VEBA plan. This cannot be passed by the membership and if it does many will stop paying dues. Try looking up the article in the Detroit Free Press from a couple Sunday's ago and if you can please post it. Thanks.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Slipperyelectron

[fuzzymoomoo]

There's already a thread about it

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/59545-uaw-managed-health-care/page-1

 

Edit: fixed bad link

Edited September 3, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo

[tooltime]

Its not a veba but it is a co-op with hourly and salary combined. I appreciate the fact that healthcare costs are baked in our total wages of $58 per hour. Healthcare costs in 2011 were $7 per every hour we work, currently it is at $10.00 per hour.

 

That $3 difference could have been a $3 per raise in our pockets

 

Also the Cadillac tax is coming as we are currently under the trigger, as costs rise we may fall into a Cadillac tax scenario without the co-op.

 

I applaud the UAWs move and strategy, but it seems like a long process with many hurdles

[fuzzymoomoo]

A for effort, but I absolutely DO. NOT. WANT. the UAW controlling any part of my healthcare.

[Slipperyelectron]

O.K. Thanks, I didn't want to type this long article by hand. It came in an email but I don't know who wrote it. It's very critical of the interview with Williams. It states that for the union VEBA is a giant slush fund that it can utilize to finance bloated bureaucracy which is very important to UAW executives who expect an exodus of disgusted dues paying members at expiration of contract. The present retiree VEBA is funded by us through cola give backs the last two contracts. President Williams and the entire team negotiating the current contract, Norwood Jewell {FCA}, James Settles {Ford}, and Cindy Estrada {GM} collect $30,000.00 a year as trustees of the fund, padding their already bloated six figure salaries from the UAW and their seats on various corporate boards and corporatist programs.If a " super veba were established the UAW would have an even greater incentive to reduce our benefits Rather than fighting the companies for benefits we'd be fighting our union.Under Obamacare a special tax on "Cadillac" health plans that cost more than $10,200 for singles and $27,500 for families. Either the tax will be shifted to the workers or the UAW will cut benefits to a point where the tax no longer applies.This will translate into a drastic reduction in medications, procedures and tests available to us and our families. It will mean, in short, that we will suffer with more health problems and die sooner. Thanks Bill and Dennis. So proud to be a union represented employee and part of the "Ford Family".

[Slipperyelectron]

Thae last two paragraphs state "The plans outlined in the Free Press article make clear that the current negotians are not between two antagonistic parties. Rather, the unions function as corporate sub-contractors, dedicated to increasing the profits of the companies, while seeking to ensure their own positions and perks are preserved. The working class in the United States and internationally is being driven into a head on collision with all of those who are seeking to reduce workers to poverty and slave like conditions. Autoworkers must build new organizations of struggle, free from the control of the UAW, and begin a counter offensive to defend jobs, wages and benefits". Don't hate on me, not my words but something to ponder.

[Tier2]

Thae last two paragraphs state "The plans outlined in the Free Press article make clear that the current negotians are not between two antagonistic parties. Rather, the unions function as corporate sub-contractors, dedicated to increasing the profits of the companies, while seeking to ensure their own positions and perks are preserved. The working class in the United States and internationally is being driven into a head on collision with all of those who are seeking to reduce workers to poverty and slave like conditions. Autoworkers must build new organizations of struggle, free from the control of the UAW, and begin a counter offensive to defend jobs, wages and benefits". Don't hate on me, not my words but something to ponder.

The co-op is a good thing. Ask any financial or health care professional and they will tell you.

 

All it is doing is cutting out a third party, Anthem, that is profitting off your health care. The money saved can go directly in your pocket via a wage increase.

 

If you are smart you will vote yes and pass this.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Tier2

[Slipperyelectron]

I'm a hell of a lot smarter than you jack wagon. And I'm voting hell no. The health care will be worse than Canada's. The wage increase won't cover jack shit. My wife would be dead right now if I had a veba plan like the retirees have. We went to any specialist and hospital we needed to. Under Veba you are told where to go. And co-op is a phrase to put sugar on the real term. VEBA.

[Fatso]

Interesting,so by creating a humungous VEBA the UAW not only stays in control of hourly who leave the union but also expands control over even salaried workers?Sounds like the IUAW is going to get a terrific new contract out of "our" labor!The UAW has turned into a labor relations department working for the corporations if they want a yes vote for that then they better offer something good in return,I vote NO on a piece of scrap paper which I will fold in half and slip into a plastic bucket on the floor.Oh look,the plastic bucket has a Master Lock!Its coming so ya just gotta LAUGH,it beats crying!

Edited September 3, 2015 by Fatso

[uaintworkin]

The co-op is a good thing. Ask any financial or health care professional and they will tell you.

 

All it is doing is cutting out a third party, Anthem, that is profitting off your health care. The money saved can go directly in your pocket via a wage increase.

 

If you are smart you will vote yes and pass this.

 

Management: "We must find a way to give wage increases to hourly. I know! Let's do a health care co-op system. That way, the money saved could go directly into their pockets as a wage increase. But first, we should ask any financial or health care professional because they will have the UAW's best interest in mind!"

 

Hahaha

 

You are too naive to know that behind every decision is $ and power, and not your $ or your power!

[MTP'er]

So jack wagon how do you negotiate with the IUAW for better health care benefits?

 

Just as I thought you jack wagon you Fucking Can't!

 

You get what you get and you'll like it!

 

No soup for you!

Edited September 3, 2015 by MTP'er

[Decker]

http://www.freep.com...talks/32048489/

[Decker]

http://www.freep.com...talks/32048489/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203707504577011901934288534

 

I`m sure that between the date this was released 2011 and today the statement about being $20 "Billion" under funded IUAW administered health care isn`t the same number. Right? Also the statements about the IUAW knowing perior to becoming the trustees of the fund "not being able to cover all the health care costs of their retiree`s" and the trustee`s would have to make decisions on how to reduce costs to the fund by raising co-pays and the reduction of coverage.

 

Lets put more people in this pool?

 

Decker

[fordd]

I am wondering if anyone has an alternative idea to what it is being proposed besides the usual vote no, strike or don't change anything? It seems to me the UAW is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sure after a fight with the union they may agree to the demands but all that will do is accelerate the move to Mexico. Let's not be short sighted here.

 

As far as the retiree VEBA, my dad retired with 42 years, has multiple ailments and has had a few surgeries since he retired and has hardly paid much out of pocket. Yes it was a little bit more than if his health insurance would not have changed but he is happy to have the coverage.

[Axle72]

Nope no alternative! Leave my healthcare alone I'm happy with what I have & yes vote no or strike r great ways to tell them we ain't taken no pos coverage with hi deductibles si señor

[Tier2]

I'm a hell of a lot smarter than you jack wagon. And I'm voting hell no. The health care will be worse than Canada's. The wage increase won't cover jack shit. My wife would be dead right now if I had a veba plan like the retirees have. We went to any specialist and hospital we needed to. Under Veba you are told where to go. And co-op is a phrase to put sugar on the real term. VEBA.

I always laugh at people who use Canada as an example. They have a lower infant mortality and higher life expectancy than the USA. So tell me again how our health care is better.

[Tier2]

Nope no alternative! Leave my healthcare alone I'm happy with what I have & yes vote no or strike r great ways to tell them we ain't taken no pos coverage with hi deductibles si señor

If we go on strike, I hope the news doesn't interview you and ask why we're on strike. The public would ridicule you off the picket line.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Tier2

[cecilmeyer]

A for effort, but I absolutely DO. NOT. WANT. the UAW controlling any part of my healthcare.

You trust Ford more???????

[Downtime1]

This whole co-op health care idea was started by the IUAW, not FMC. Why is that, doesn't this sound like something a company would be pushing for?? Their pushing for this that way when they come back with raises for all tiers they can say "we fought for and got raises for both tiers just like we said we would". But what their not going to tell everyone is that they (IUAW) can't control the rising costs of health care and whatever raises we get will be offset by what we'll end up paying out of pocket for our healthcare.

[Decker]

I am wondering if anyone has an alternative idea to what it is being proposed besides the usual vote no, strike or don't change anything? It seems to me the UAW is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sure after a fight with the union they may agree to the demands but all that will do is accelerate the move to Mexico. Let's not be short sighted here.

 

As far as the retiree VEBA, my dad retired with 42 years, has multiple ailments and has had a few surgeries since he retired and has hardly paid much out of pocket. Yes it was a little bit more than if his health insurance would not have changed but he is happy to have the coverage.

Congraduations to our father for reaching that many years as a member.

 

At my current hourly rate those 12 extra years would give me $648 a month above a 30 year pention. ($54 x 12 = $648)

 

With the average co-pays in the VEBA system between $300 to $500 a month that $648 a month will come in very handy. Now with your own wording "it would have been better if his health insurance would not have changed" and "but he is happy to have the coverage", I can realize and understand that its a good thing to have any coverage, even a coverage plan that he has no choices in. I can understand that the coverage was less costly before the change to the VEBA and that is the point that many business, insurance, government and now union leaders really don`t won`t to talk about.

 

With the co-pays the first opportunities to reduce fund spending, these monthly cost will mostly go up. With the suvivor (catch it drphil?)benefit cost added in to the monthly co-pays when will a member with 42 years reach a break even point? When will a member with 30 years see more and more of their pension reduced?

 

Fordd there are many other alternatives, some given by even our past IUAW leadership. Walter said on many occations he was in the people bunisness not manufacturing business when explaining he had no thoughts of becoming apart of the business on the other side of the table. Becoming administrators of the health care for its members puts the leaders of the people business in a very different place than what union has ever been in before. Then put the people business leaders in a place where they take members and let them do the same labor as other members, for half and this to would have been looked on as a very different place to be by our leaders that said they were in the people business.

 

With the retirees the leaders of the people business had to pull some legal sneakyness to get the VEBA in place. A very different place once again to be in for the leaders of the people business... Yes by law the IUAW does not represent the retirees so yes the people business leaders had to put up some unexpecting retirees to suit the company to get the people business leaders their control over a group that they had no representational rights too.

 

So yes fordd there are alturnatives out there but this is the alturnative (drphil ) that best fits the people buiness leaders control.

 

Decker

Edited September 3, 2015 by Decker

[fuzzymoomoo]

You trust Ford more???????

Ford has shown over the last 5 years that they know how to run a business. IUAW hasn't.

 

Ford doesn't control our health care, BCBS does. Or HAP for some of the tier 2s that chose to go that route.

[focusfrank]

Ford has shown over the last 5 years that they know how to run a business. IUAW hasn't.

 

Ford doesn't control our health care, BCBS does. Or HAP for some of the tier 2s that chose to go that route.

The rising costs of health care is something that neither can control. Veba is all based on the stock market, which isn't a good thing. Sure when the economy is good, stocks are up but what happens when the economy is down and the stock market is down?? They will force us to make up the lose and tell us (there won't be a vote) we will have to have money deducted out of our checks which will offset any raise we will get.

[fuzzymoomoo]

The rising costs of health care is something that neither can control. Veba is all based on the stock market, which isn't a good thing. Sure when the economy is good, stocks are up but what happens when the economy is down and the stock market is down?? They will force us to make up the lose and tell us (there won't be a vote) we will have to have money deducted out of our checks which will offset any raise we will get.

You're absolutely right, so force them to come up with another idea.

[focusfrank]

You're absolutely right, so force them to come up with another idea.

Exactly. This is a bad deal for the members, why wouldn't FMC and GM and Chrysler agree to this, it takes all of the health care responsibilities away from them and onto the IUAW. So when were told that the fund is in the negative and they (IUAW) needs money taken out of our checks to make up for this we can't blame the company. Telling you in the long run this WON'T benefit us and we will end up losing any money we gained in a raise to make up for this. The IUAW will try and sell this idea to the members with a raise, hopefully the members see through this and vote no. But I think unfortunately the members will see a raise and vote yes on this.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Exactly. This is a bad deal for the members, why wouldn't FMC and GM and Chrysler agree to this, it takes all of the health care responsibilities away from them and onto the IUAW. So when were told that the fund is in the negative and they (IUAW) needs money taken out of our checks to make up for this we can't blame the company. Telling you in the long run this WON'T benefit us and we will end up losing any money we gained in a raise to make up for this. The IUAW will try and sell this idea to the members with a raise, hopefully the members see through this and vote no. But I think unfortunately the members will see a raise and vote yes on this.

+ signing bonus

 

that's all I hear anyone talking about is a signing bonus

 

we're screwed