The new Bronco/Ranger/MAP thread

[bzcat]

So, what will the form factor be? Similar to original 1966 Bronco, 78/79 Bronco, OJ Bronco, Bronco II?

 

Won't be like 1966 or Bronco II because tiny footprint = CAFE problem

 

Won't be like 1978 or OJ Bronco because they are not doing fullsize.

 

I think it will be size between 4 door Wrangler and Toyota 4Runner... basically, like the last BOF Explorer (or the current Everest) size.

 

Trying valiantly to get this back on topic...just saw this

 

Jeep Wrangler to stay in Toledo, Cherokee leaving, Wrangler-based pickup coming

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150901/OEM01/150909993/jeep-wrangler-to-stay-in-toledo-cherokee-leaving-wrangler-based

 

 

 

I think their 350K number is pie in the sky for just the Wrangler and Pickup Wrangler alone....

 

350k is production volume for the entire world... it's not pie in the sky.

[NLPRacing]

Is the current Troller T4, with its solid front & rear axles, based on T6? Or is it on its own, unique chassis?

 

http://www.troller.com.br/

[akirby]

Is the current Troller T4, with its solid front & rear axles, based on T6? Or is it on its own, unique chassis?

 

http://www.troller.com.br/

 

It was supposedly upgraded to T6 platform for 2014.

[rmc523]

What if the Bronco rumors are simply the next gen Troller? Like they'll be one in the same, with Bronco styling. And I still like my idea of a Bronco truck (not dissimilar from the Wrangler rumors we're now hearing.

[akirby]

What if the Bronco rumors are simply the next gen Troller? Like they'll be one in the same, with Bronco styling. And I still like my idea of a Bronco truck (not dissimilar from the Wrangler rumors we're now hearing.

 

That would make the most sense. Is it possible Lincoln is planning a version similar to the Evoque? Remember the inside tip said 2 utilities and inferred 2 different brands.

[NLPRacing]

What if the Bronco rumors are simply the next gen Troller? Like they'll be one in the same, with Bronco styling. And I still like my idea of a Bronco truck (not dissimilar from the Wrangler rumors we're now hearing.

 

I could definitely see a whole Bronco lineup including a 2 door SUV, 4 door SUV & crew cab pickup and Troller getting basically the same lineup. Similar to the H3 and H3T.

 

 

[BlackHorse]

I'm still not sure that adding the Bronco in the size and configuration that is being discussed makes good business since. Ford already has the Escape, Edge and Explorer. Would adding a Bronco that would essentially be more like the current Escape than not make good business since? Personally I would rather see a two door full size Bronco than a small unibody Bronco and by that I mean put a Bronco body on an F150 regular cab chassis. I'm no expert on tooling at the F150 factory but it seems to me that a Bronco is going to be a niche vehicle regardless not unlike the Mustang. If it's going to be a niche vehicle why not build it at the F150 facility where they clearly have enough product demand that cranking out a couple thousand Bronco's here and there won't matter? If they want to platform share it with a potential Ranger to garner enough sales to justify keeping MAP open than we have to ask ourselves "Will there be enough demand for yet another unibody SUV in the lineup?"

Edited September 1, 2015 by BlackHorse

[BlackHorse]

 

I could definitely see a whole Bronco lineup including a 2 door SUV, 4 door SUV & crew cab pickup and Troller getting basically the same lineup. Similar to the H3 and H3T.

 

 

 

 

I like this idea too. I like it a lot in fact. But it requires using the T6 Ranger platform.

[rmc523]

 

That would make the most sense. Is it possible Lincoln is planning a version similar to the Evoque? Remember the inside tip said 2 utilities and inferred 2 different brands.

 

Would this Lincoln "Evoque" then replace the MKC? Or be in addition to it (not all that dissimilar from Land Rover having the Discovery Sport and Evoque)?

 

 

I could definitely see a whole Bronco lineup including a 2 door SUV, 4 door SUV & crew cab pickup and Troller getting basically the same lineup. Similar to the H3 and H3T.

 

 

 

Yes, exactly. It also makes the most sense to me, as they can share front ends, further reducing costs of the new offerings.

 

I'm still not sure that adding the Bronco in the size and configuration that is being discussed makes good business since. Ford already has the Escape, Edge and Explorer. Would adding a Bronco that would essentially be more like the current Escape than not make good business since? Personally I would rather see a two door full size Bronco than a small unibody Bronco and by that I mean put a Bronco body on an F150 regular cab chassis. I'm no expert on tooling at the F150 factory but it seems to me that a Bronco is going to be a niche vehicle regardless not unlike the Mustang. If it's going to be a niche vehicle why not build it at the F150 facility where they clearly have enough product demand that cranking out a couple thousand Bronco's here and there won't matter? If they want to platform share it with a potential Ranger to garner enough sales to justify keeping MAP open than we have to ask ourselves "Will there be enough demand for yet another unibody SUV in the lineup?"

 

See, I personally don't think a full size 2 door model would do well (that goes for any 2-door model by itself). It's just too impractical for most buyers. And if they're going to go through the effort of making this type of vehicle, especially here in the states, it's going to have to have more of a market than the 2-door suv one would.

 

As for size of this smaller one - I think it would work because of the difference in styling and capability. Yes, it would be sized similarly to other offerings, but it would cater to a different market. Whereas the currently lineup caters to those who want a more car-like look and ride, this could be a more "masculine" offering with boxier styling and more off road capability.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I'm still not sure that adding the Bronco in the size and configuration that is being discussed makes good business since. Ford already has the Escape, Edge and Explorer. Would adding a Bronco that would essentially be more like the current Escape than not make good business since? Personally I would rather see a two door full size Bronco than a small unibody Bronco and by that I mean put a Bronco body on an F150 regular cab chassis. I'm no expert on tooling at the F150 factory but it seems to me that a Bronco is going to be a niche vehicle regardless not unlike the Mustang. If it's going to be a niche vehicle why not build it at the F150 facility where they clearly have enough product demand that cranking out a couple thousand Bronco's here and there won't matter? If they want to platform share it with a potential Ranger to garner enough sales to justify keeping MAP open than we have to ask ourselves "Will there be enough demand for yet another unibody SUV in the lineup?"

The 2 F-150 plants are having a hard enough time building products fast enough as it is. Add another product and it's going to lead to chaos. Best build Bronco somewhere else.

[BlackHorse]

 

Would this Lincoln "Evoque" then replace the MKC? Or be in addition to it (not all that dissimilar from Land Rover having the Discovery Sport and Evoque)?

 

 

Yes, exactly. It also makes the most sense to me, as they can share front ends, further reducing costs of the new offerings.

 

 

See, I personally don't think a full size 2 door model would do well (that goes for any 2-door model by itself). It's just too impractical for most buyers. And if they're going to go through the effort of making this type of vehicle, especially here in the states, it's going to have to have more of a market than the 2-door suv one would.

 

As for size of this smaller one - I think it would work because of the difference in styling and capability. Yes, it would be sized similarly to other offerings, but it would cater to a different market. Whereas the currently lineup caters to those who want a more car-like look and ride, this could be a more "masculine" offering with boxier styling and more off road capability.

 

 

Like you I would prefer to see the vehicle based on the T6 chassis. I think that makes the most sense from a broad appeal standpoint. A full size 2 door Bronco would be a strictly niche vehicle but it would be more true to the historical roots of the full size Bronco. Then again there was the Bronco II but in looking back between the Bronco and the Bronco II which one has the better customer appeal and history. Bronco II was noted for its unreliability. I just think a full size 2 door modern Bronco would be cool and I wouldn't speculate about whether or not there would be enough customer demand for such a configuration. But that is something that has to be considered even if its just an add on at the F150 line. There's really no way of knowing how well a modern full size Bronco would sell. It is clearly and iconic vehicle going back over the years but is there enough draw to bring buyers into the showroom? It's a toss up.

 

Now putting the Bronco on the T6 chassis in this modern era makes a lot of sense to me. It would have a broad appeal. You could make 2 and 4 door configurations as well as pickup truck configurations. But there are always pros and cons. It might be a smash hit but it might not. It would definitely affect CAFE but if the vehicle in question was a big enough hit Ford could probably drop something else to make up for the CAFE standards.

[rmc523]

 

 

Like you I would prefer to see the vehicle based on the T6 chassis. I think that makes the most sense from a broad appeal standpoint. A full size 2 door Bronco would be a strictly niche vehicle but it would be more true to the historical roots of the full size Bronco. Then again there was the Bronco II but in looking back between the Bronco and the Bronco II which one has the better customer appeal and history. Bronco II was noted for its unreliability. I just think a full size 2 door modern Bronco would be cool and I wouldn't speculate about whether or not there would be enough customer demand for such a configuration. But that is something that has to be considered even if its just an add on at the F150 line. There's really no way of knowing how well a modern full size Bronco would sell. It is clearly and iconic vehicle going back over the years but is there enough draw to bring buyers into the showroom? It's a toss up.

 

Now putting the Bronco on the T6 chassis in this modern era makes a lot of sense to me. It would have a broad appeal. You could make 2 and 4 door configurations as well as pickup truck configurations. But there are always pros and cons. It might be a smash hit but it might not. It would definitely affect CAFE but if the vehicle in question was a big enough hit Ford could probably drop something else to make up for the CAFE standards.

 

I guess I didn't realize the Bronco was full size for every generation except for the first gen model. I believe that Bronco concept from '04 (which I could see them using as a design direction for this new one) was more toward the original's compact size too.

[SoonerLS]

The 2 F-150 plants are having a hard enough time building products fast enough as it is. Add another product and it's going to lead to chaos. Best build Bronco somewhere else.

Unless you put it in a slot that Ford may want to de-emphasize for CAFE reasons--f'rinstance, would a Bronco have a different CAFE impact than a RCSB F150? Without the open bed it might get better mileage from the same footprint...

[fuzzymoomoo]

Unless you put it in a slot that Ford may want to de-emphasize for CAFE reasons--f'rinstance, would a Bronco have a different CAFE impact than a RCSB F150? Without the open bed it might get better mileage from the same footprint...

Maybe, but pickups are also engineered for maximum efficiency with the tailgate closed (contrary to the somewhat popular belief that removing the tailgate improves fuel efficiency). Adding a cap does the same thing so from that standpoint it's kinda redundant

[probowler]

What do people see about the Ranger though? Will she be the "Ranger", or "F-100" with a possible Ranger trimline?

 

Personally I think it would be great if they brought back some flare side styliing and called it the F100

Edited September 1, 2015 by probowler

[bzcat]

1. I don't think there will be a 2 door Bronco. The short wheel base creates too much CAFE headache and the market appear is limited.
2. I don't think there will be a Bronco truck in addition to Ranger... Not enough room for both.
3. I don't think there will be a Lincoln version of T6 SUV... Unlike Ford, Lincoln really doesn't have room for another midsize SUV, especially a BOF one that has fallen out of favor with luxury car buyers.
4. I think there will be a CUV smaller than Escape for sale at Ford dealer in the US by 2018 or so... whether or not there is a T6 SUV. "Bronco" could refer to either vehicle in my opinion.

2018 Ford US market utility line up:

 

C3 SWB "Bronco"

C3 LWB Escape

CD4 Edge

T7 Everest (or "Bronco")

CD6 Explorer

P5 SWB Expedition

P5 LWB Expedition

 

C3 LWB MKC

CD4 MKX

CD6 Aviator

P5 SWB Navigator

P5 LWB Navigator

[rmc523]

What do people see about the Ranger though? Will she be the "Ranger", or "F-100" with a possible Ranger trimline?

 

Personally I think it would be great if they brought back some flare side styliing and called it the F100

 

I don't think the name Ranger will be associated with this project at all. Anything other than the global Ranger shouldn't be called Ranger. Call it F-100, Bronco truck, Bronco T, whatever. There's no need to go back to the same name on different products around the world.

 

I also don't think you'll see any flareside styling with a Bronco associated with the program....or at least it won't be like the '97-'03 flareside anyway.

[BlackHorse]

Just to add food for thought here. It looks like Jeep is going to put a pickup body on the Wrangler chassis. It's something that Wrangler owners, including myself, have been clamoring over for years now.

 

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/jeep-wrangler-pickup-to-be-built-in-toledo-cherokee-heading-out-89549.html

[akirby]

would a Bronco have a different CAFE impact than a RCSB F150?

 

Who in their right mind would buy a RCSB F150?

[sullynd]

Isn't that what the Tremor was?

[BlackHorse]

 

Who in their right mind would buy a RCSB F150?

 

 

We are talking about the chassis, not the actual truck body. RCSB with a Bronco body on it. Also I know some people who buy regular cab trucks actually but in truth most of the regular cab stuff ends up as work trucks.

[probowler]

Ford already makes a near Bronco ready platform

 

 

 

All they need is to throw together is the proper body and interior bits.

 

Of course this isn't what Ford is likely planning, but I would think it could theoretically work.

Edited September 2, 2015 by probowler

[silvrsvt]

Some interesting comments on the Mid-sized pickup market sales this past month:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/09/best-selling-pickup-trucks-august-2015.html

 

 

Other things to note: Toyota's two-truck strategy is doing much better than GMC's three-truck strategy, and Chevrolet's three-truck strategy is getting crushed by Ford's two-truck program. Of course, Chevy sells more than double the number of pickups than Toyota, but Chevy also has more than three times the number of dealerships in the U.S. Nissan's aging Frontier continues to nose dive in sales, even though it continues to be the most value-rich choice in the segment. Nissan sold as many Frontiers in the entire month of August as Ram sold on any given Friday/Saturday/Sunday in August. Finally, full-size pickup sales continue to grow for both Chevy and GMC by solid margins, so their new midsize players — the Colorado and Canyon — do not seem to be negatively impacting full-size sales. Sales seem to coming from Frontier and the midsize crossover and SUV segment.

 

Is RMC are you still tracking the GM Mid-sized twins? Last month the Tacoma alone doubled their total monthly sales.

[rmc523]

 

1. I don't think there will be a 2 door Bronco. The short wheel base creates too much CAFE headache and the market appear is limited.
2. I don't think there will be a Bronco truck in addition to Ranger... Not enough room for both.
3. I don't think there will be a Lincoln version of T6 SUV... Unlike Ford, Lincoln really doesn't have room for another midsize SUV, especially a BOF one that has fallen out of favor with luxury car buyers.
4. I think there will be a CUV smaller than Escape for sale at Ford dealer in the US by 2018 or so... whether or not there is a T6 SUV. "Bronco" could refer to either vehicle in my opinion.

2018 Ford US market utility line up:

 

C3 SWB "Bronco"

C3 LWB Escape

CD4 Edge

T7 Everest (or "Bronco")

CD6 Explorer

P5 SWB Expedition

P5 LWB Expedition

 

C3 LWB MKC

CD4 MKX

CD6 Aviator

P5 SWB Navigator

P5 LWB Navigator

 

 

1) I could buy that, though I can also see the argument for a 2 door model (even if the take rate would be low).

2) My proposal was that this Bronco truck IS the rumored "Ranger." And that the Bronco will be the Troller replacement. Anything other than the ROW Ranger shoudn't be called Ranger.

3) I could buy that.

4) I can't see a sub Escape model being called Bronco. It's too small.

 

Another thought I had on #3 - the source mentioned 2 brands. What if instead of a Lincoln, the Bronco and next-gen Troller are one in the same and it was actually the Troller that they're going to export to South America?

[akirby]

 

 

We are talking about the chassis, not the actual truck body. RCSB with a Bronco body on it. Also I know some people who buy regular cab trucks actually but in truth most of the regular cab stuff ends up as work trucks.

 

That was a joke. SoonerLS has a RCSB.