jumpercable Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 And like I said you get fired very easily and after you do you won't be coming back.Just how much time do have at Ford? Cannot be that much with your attitude. your a dingaling put your head back in the sand. I am a legacy employee so you figure it out. You my friend are a follower not a leader so keep spewing your mindless thoughts. Grow up and actually come up with your own opinion not one from UAW propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) your a dingaling put your head back in the sand. I am a legacy employee so you figure it out. You my friend are a follower not a leader so keep spewing your mindless thoughts. Grow up and actually come up with your own opinion not one from UAW propaganda You did not answer my question "LEGACY Employee.I am not spewing any propaganda.Just stating hard facts.You really think that the union really has the power it did before all these bad trade deals and sellout politicians?Do honestly think you are so skilled that Ford could not replace you?LOL.So just keep spewing your garbage how the union does nothing.Does the union have issues?Yes like I have stated time and time again but I still challenge you to produce ANY facts that we would be better off without the UAW.Grow up? You seem to be the the one who needs to grow up and have a reality check.Workers all over the world are fighting.Not just at your little world at Ford Motor.Unions are under relentless attacks from Republicans and the elite.So if you really think we have enough power and support of our politicians and the American public who by the way thinks we are overpaid and lazy to fight this massive war against working people all over the world I say test your narrow minded,flawed view of reality.And finally I form my own views with facts not opinions and that includes the opinions of the UAW.Seems like your opinion is follow the rest of the herd with the mindset I am so valuable that Ford cannot operate with me.Talk about needing a reality check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited August 20, 2015 by cecilmeyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Agreed Cecil we wayyyy better off with uaw than w/o but lotta faults like u said. As far as under attack by republicans I think u can just flat out say politicians cuz the dems ain't r friends either pal, Clinton/nafta Obama/tpp & obamacare all dems & all not good stuff thrown r way & im aint sayin repubs r the good guys there all evil out for there own good which mosta the time is not good for us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Believe me when I tell you this that there's less drama in non union shops and less lawsuits. Come on if you want to have a discussion on this at least be honest about what is really going on. I will tell you that the IUAW will make the tier "chosen" 1's pay union dues by taking over the pension fund like they did the health care and if you don't pay union dues you won't get what is left of your pension after they mismanage it like the VEBA. So come into the real world. The reason there's less drama in non-union shops is because none of the employees will stand up for themselves for fear of losing their jobs. I guarantee you without UAW you would have a much heavier work load, there wouldn't be nowhere near as many jobs available. My brother works in a non-union shop and he is an "electrician". He does all the maintanance that needs to be done in the whole shop. They have one Maintanance classification and its "electrician", they do everything that all our trades combined do. Do you know how many jobs that right there would eliminate?? That's not including all the production jobs that would disappear if we didn't have the uaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) The reason there's less drama in non-union shops is because none of the employees will stand up for themselves for fear of losing their jobs. I guarantee you without UAW you would have a much heavier work load, there wouldn't be nowhere near as many jobs available. My brother works in a non-union shop and he is an "electrician". He does all the maintanance that needs to be done in the whole shop. They have one Maintanance classification and its "electrician", they do everything that all our trades combined do. Do you know how many jobs that right there would eliminate?? That's not including all the production jobs that would disappear if we didn't have the uaw Expect only 2 trade classifications after this contract, mechanical and electrical.Also on a local level the contract is NOT equally enforced.There are so many special "deals" that the company is free to pass out to whomever and however they want!Is it too much to ask for equal enforcement of the contract in a union shop?"If they dont like you,I cant help you" Edited August 20, 2015 by Fatso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Even the current contract is open to interpretation, so many so called "gray areas". I'm not expecting us to get shit, tier 1 will get a small raise but will give up something to get that which won't be in favor them. Tier 2 will get thrown something just so the international can say that did their part by "bridging the gap". Neither one should expect much.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Agreed Cecil we wayyyy better off with uaw than w/o but lotta faults like u said. As far as under attack by republicans I think u can just flat out say politicians cuz the dems ain't r friends either pal, Clinton/nafta Obama/tpp & obamacare all dems & all not good stuff thrown r way & im aint sayin repubs r the good guys there all evil out for there own good which mosta the time is not good for us Axle you are spot on about the Dems being no friend of the working man.I am a Bernie Sanders guy but the powers that be will do any and everything to see that he does not get into power.Clinton pushed through Nafta and President Obama is pushing another garbage trade deal the TPP.This President cannot get anything to help the working class of this country,the Repubs block everything but they all line up to back him on the TPP so what does that tell you?Its no good for the working man if repubs are backing it! Goodluck on the contract Axle we are going to need it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptObvious Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 You did not answer my question "LEGACY Employee.I am not spewing any propaganda.Just stating hard facts.You really think that the union really has the power it did before all these bad trade deals and sellout politicians?Do honestly think you are so skilled that Ford could not replace you?LOL.So just keep spewing your garbage how the union does nothing.Does the union have issues?Yes like I have stated time and time again but I still challenge you to produce ANY facts that we would be better off without the UAW.Grow up? You seem to be the the one who needs to grow up and have a reality check.Workers all over the world are fighting.Not just at your little world at Ford Motor.Unions are under relentless attacks from Republicans and the elite.So if you really think we have enough power and support of our politicians and the American public who by the way thinks we are overpaid and lazy to fight this massive war against working people all over the world I say test your narrow minded,flawed view of reality.And finally I form my own views with facts not opinions and that includes the opinions of the UAW.Seems like your opinion is follow the rest of the herd with the mindset I am so valuable that Ford cannot operate with me.Talk about needing a reality check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously someone hit a nerve eh? {prolly a closet Republican they usually talk out their ass too} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptObvious Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Expect only 2 trade classifications after this contract, mechanical and electrical.Also on a local level the contract is NOT equally enforced.There are so many special "deals" that the company is free to pass out to whomever and however they want!Is it too much to ask for equal enforcement of the contract in a union shop?"If they dont like you,I cant help you" That won't happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 .Unions are under relentless attacks from Republicans and the elite. Did you read that from a union publication ? You do realize the so called rich have gotten richer under Obama and his policies ? Obamacare is NOT good for union workers, period. This from the same guy / party the unions support each and every time. Right to work laws give the individual worker a voice and the option to vote with their wallet. If members are happy then the union has nothing to fear but if those members are not satisfied with what they receive for the dues paid they can withhold funds. That is not the fault of republicans , the elite or some idiot democratic law makers, its the unions fault, period. The union is at a cross roads and has given back / away LOTS of gains made over the years past and sacrifice of others. A cornerstone of the union was equal pay for equal work. That went out the window for the lure of 2nd tier headcount added IF they pay union dies. Its a sell out of principal for quick money. I prefer to have some union over none but my plants union is 100% self serving and in bed deep with the company. No member should be forced to pay for the above crap. I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpercable Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Whiny over paid lazy crybabies shut up with the they fire everyone, don't let them go piss and overwork them to death bullshit! You must work in a third world country with a bunch of child slave laborers you idiot no sweat shops here. Such a drama queen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Whiny over paid lazy crybabies shut up with the they fire everyone, don't let them go piss and overwork them to death bullshit! You must work in a third world country with a bunch of child slave laborers you idiot no sweat shops here. Such a drama queen.American workers who refused to 'eat shit' are the reason we have it better than workers in third world nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Whiny over paid lazy crybabies shut up with the they fire everyone, don't let them go piss and overwork them to death bullshit! You must work in a third world country with a bunch of child slave laborers you idiot no sweat shops here. Such a drama queen. If it was not for unions we would still have the third world sweatshops,and child labor.So corporations and the rich share what workers produce because of the kindness of their hearts????That statement is beyond laughable.Do you live on planet Earth with the rest of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Obviously someone hit a nerve eh? {prolly a closet Republican they usually talk out their ass too} Closet Republican?How perceptive,especially after I posted I am a supporter of Bernie Sanders.Yea he is quite the Republican LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Did you read that from a union publication ? You do realize the so called rich have gotten richer under Obama and his policies ? Obamacare is NOT good for union workers, period. This from the same guy / party the unions support each and every time. Right to work laws give the individual worker a voice and the option to vote with their wallet. If members are happy then the union has nothing to fear but if those members are not satisfied with what they receive for the dues paid they can withhold funds. That is not the fault of republicans , the elite or some idiot democratic law makers, its the unions fault, period. The union is at a cross roads and has given back / away LOTS of gains made over the years past and sacrifice of others. A cornerstone of the union was equal pay for equal work. That went out the window for the lure of 2nd tier headcount added IF they pay union dies. Its a sell out of principal for quick money. I prefer to have some union over none but my plants union is 100% self serving and in bed deep with the company. No member should be forced to pay for the above crap. I Its not the politicians fault? If I am not mistaken they make the laws that the corporations have paid them to do.So Nafta has nothing to do do with the massive job losses the U.S has sustained? The only reason the Europeans unions are still doing well is because they have the backing and support of their politicians and the citizens.President Obama is a liar just like the rest of them.I am a Democratic Socialist so that is why I am a supporter of Bernie Sanders.The automakers would have never been able to force a 2nd tier if the economy was still intact.I voted against a 2nd tier knowing it would be the undoing of us autoworkers.It has worked precisely how the corporations planned.By having us all fight amongst each other.If the UAW would not have given in to the 2nd tier there would have either been a strike or massive cuts even farther than we took and there would have been no hiring of any new workers.So either way we were screwed.Its one of those lousy deals like the politicians we have"Pick your poison".The only way the working class we ever see its fair share of their labors is to have a government and citizens that support them.The U.S and its dim witted citizens have bought into the the lie that if I work hard enough I can be rich like Donald Trump even though Mr Trump has declared bankruptcy multiple times and inherited the vast majority of his wealth.Again I am for equal pay for equal work.That is what unions are all about.And the UAW has many issues that need to be dealt with and one of the things that can be done is new people running and getting elected.I tried once to run for committee man after all the concessions the UAW agreed to but I was too radical I was told.So anyone who says I did not try does not know me.If you do not have the support of the sheeple in the U.S forget it unless you are are on the other side.Then you have unlimited funding and support of the idiot masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Relax guys. Even without a union, not much will change. There are labor laws now that didn't exist when the UAW organized that offer some protection for workers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are labor laws now that didn't exist when the UAW organized that offer some protection for workers. Bingo, you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hee haw Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Relax guys. Even without a union, not much will change. There are labor laws now that didn't exist when the UAW organized that offer some protection for workers. These labor laws you speak of are mainly the result of Unions, including the UAW. Do you think that most protection that ALL workers have is because companies thought that would be a good idea? Wages in many non union plants is very close to Union wages in the area, because the companies want to keep Unions out. I remember when Freightliner was staffing a new plant they announced that they would be the highest paid assembly plant in Canada just to keep union out. I see the Japanese plants doing the same thing or paying close to in my area Unifor wages, but they still will terminate people for very weak reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 These labor laws you speak of are mainly the result of Unions, including the UAW. Do you think that most protection that ALL workers have is because companies thought that would be a good idea? Wages in many non union plants is very close to Union wages in the area, because the companies want to keep Unions out. I remember when Freightliner was staffing a new plant they announced that they would be the highest paid assembly plant in Canada just to keep union out. I see the Japanese plants doing the same thing or paying close to in my area Unifor wages, but they still will terminate people for very weak reasons. I understand that. And I also understand that unions are the reason these laws exist. Do you understand at will employment? It means you can be let go for any reason so long as it's not due to racism, sexism or any other discriminatory reasons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I don't believe we need the UAW, I just don't believe that it's all doom and gloom should something happen and the UAW no longer exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Relax guys. Even without a union, not much will change. There are labor laws now that didn't exist when the UAW organized that offer some protection for workers. Yep....you would be safe while you made $12/hr. You think the company contributes to your 401k and gives you profit share because they want to? Edited August 21, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hee haw Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I understand that. And I also understand that unions are the reason these laws exist. Do you understand at will employment? It means you can be let go for any reason so long as it's not due to racism, sexism or any other discriminatory reasons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I don't believe we need the UAW, I just don't believe that it's all doom and gloom should something happen and the UAW no longer exists. At least, when layoffs are made in a UAW shop they are by seniority, not because someone has a relative that wants your job. The recent layoffs at MAP were done by seniority and placement in new jobs were done by the same method. Where would you be working today if these rules were not in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 At least, when layoffs are made in a UAW shop they are by seniority, not because someone has a relative that wants your job. The recent layoffs at MAP were done by seniority and placement in new jobs were done by the same method. Where would you be working today if these rules were not in place? I'm working right now, but in my mind, I am for all intents and purposes unemployed. Those of us that did get "placed" only got a temporary assignment. We haven't been told shit because of the BS games and posturing by the UAW and Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecilmeyer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bingo, you get it. Bingo you are in the dark beyond reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I'm working right now, but in my mind, I am for all intents and purposes unemployed. Those of us that did get "placed" only got a temporary assignment. We haven't been told shit because of the BS games and posturing by the UAW and Ford. No different than what's happening to the tier 2's still at MAP who didn't make the cut, being told nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 No different than what's happening to the tier 2's still at MAP who didn't make the cut, being told nothing Indeed. I've been talking with friends that are still there. They're just as frustrated as I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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