jpd80 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'd be more concerned about panel fit and finish, Deanh must be having kittens trying to keep customers happy at the moment, hopefully, there's a speedy end in sight to these rough builds and the normalcy of settled production tolerances arrives soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 An occasional misalignment is understandable An occasional misalignment is probably human error. Consistent misalignment indicates a machine that isn't performing as expected. And THAT is probably why Ford hasn't authorized repairs yet. They want to know why it's happening before they do anything to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This reminds me of thousands of Taurus sitting on CAP yards that were screwed up (in one way or another) because of needing to make production run numbers. Ahhh Corp. Leadership, an oxymoron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This reminds me of thousands of Taurus sitting on CAP yards that were screwed up (in one way or another) because of needing to make production run numbers. Ahhh Corp. Leadership, an oxymoron... Would it be ideal to fix the problem before any more trucks get out the door? Absolutely! Is that what management wants? You darn right it is! However, especially with automation and computers, you don't always know what the problem is, or how to fix it. You may have to shut the entire plant down for 2, 3, 4 or more weeks as you figure out the solution to the problem. That just isn't feasible. You have to have trucks to sell, and if you need to have them fixed at the dealer or after the truck is produced, then that's what you have to do. I'm sure if they knew exactly how to fix it, it would be fixed by now. It's not like these are severe issues like grenading trannies or blown engines. These are minor cosmetic issues that can be resolved after the fact. Granted, it doesn't look good, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Would it be ideal to fix the problem before any more trucks get out the door? Absolutely! Is that what management wants? You darn right it is! However, especially with automation and computers, you don't always know what the problem is, or how to fix it. You may have to shut the entire plant down for 2, 3, 4 or more weeks as you figure out the solution to the problem. That just isn't feasible. You have to have trucks to sell, and if you need to have them fixed at the dealer or after the truck is produced, then that's what you have to do. I'm sure if they knew exactly how to fix it, it would be fixed by now. It's not like these are severe issues like grenading trannies or blown engines. These are minor cosmetic issues that can be resolved after the fact. Granted, it doesn't look good, but you gotta do what you gotta do. All these problems should have been caught at pre-production. No excuses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Don't forget too that it's likely not a safety issue or they would order a stop sale Edited February 20, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 meanwhile............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 All these problems should have been caught at pre-production. No excuses! Should they have? Probably, but at times things get missed. Last time I checked, they weren't running 20k trucks/month down the line in pre-production. It's also quite possible that it was caught during pre-pro, they just don't have a fix yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 All these problems should have been caught at pre-production. No excuses! Yes and no. There's so many moving parts to the assembly process, with every tweak of the process, there's hundreds more that need to be made. So, yes they probably caught it early, determined it's not a safety issue and are still working on a solution that has a minimal disruption to the process as a whole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 you would think a bumper alignment would be relatively simple no? Derek?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dean, I can't speak to that, I've never worked at DTP, I don't know their exact process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) are the bumpers mounted to brackets or the frame itself?....I have no idea, and crawling underneath in a dress shirt and tie isn't on the books... Edited February 20, 2015 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 People who think this is an easy fix clearly do not understand manufacturing processes--especially highly mechanized manufacturing. If the solution were trivial, the implication is that Ford managers are too incompetent to implement a minor change that is causing real-world issues for the company: Issues that have a direct impact on their bonuses. Since this is not occurring universally, Ford needs to determine when it's happening. This is not a trivial matter, given that Ford is building one F150 per minute. I could see this as a reason why Ford does not want these trucks repaired. Ford should know, to the minute, when each one of these trucks rolled off the line. So they can evaluate when these issues are occurring based on data they obtain. In short: Until you've had to debug a system as complex as the assembly of a vehicle with 10,000+ parts, don't declare that the *cause* can be easily determined based by the ease with which you can observe the *effect*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 99% sure they're mounted on brackets. I have no idea exactly how adjustable those brackets are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thank you Richard, I wanted to get that detailed, but I can only respond when the line stops right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thank you Richard, I wanted to get that detailed, but I can only respond when the line stops right now Now that's multi-tasking right there. If you were at DTP, we'd know why the bumpers were crooked! I'm kidding, BTW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 you would think a bumper alignment would be relatively simple no? Derek?.... If it was a manual process, then yes. An automated process, not so much, especially if it isn't happening on every single vehicle, as RJ mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 WATCH THE "FIX BE A SHIM....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Now that's multi-tasking right there. If you were at DTP, we'd know why the bumpers were crooked! I'm kidding, BTW... Lol. Makes it easy to multitask when you do the same thing 600 times a day, 4 days a week for 1.5 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 WATCH THE "FIX BE A SHIM....... Oh, I'm sure that they already know what the fix is going to be--they're not holding up repairs in order to determine the fix. I expect they're holding up the repairs while they investigate the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Or arrange for the dealers to get shims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 are the bumpers mounted to brackets or the frame itself?....I have no idea, and crawling underneath in a dress shirt and tie isn't on the books... The bumpers are mounted on brackets that are welded to the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 And the bumpers can be adjusted without shims correct? Seems like a simple fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Unless the brackets are misaligned, which might explain why it's not a simple quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) meanwhile............. LOL, love the kittens mate, I'm really feeling for you and your situation at the moment, beautiful product with glaring mistakes...yikes. It looks like DTP really started hitting the go button last month with over 20,000 builds. is there any way to identify when the vehicles in question were built? could they be early builds? or is this a drift in production performance from later builds, going to fast too soon? Edited February 20, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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