LincolnV Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Must be a regional thing. I've seen maybe one MB Wagon in the last year. Thousands of utilities though. They already make them for Europe so it's not hard to bring them over. The market is tiny and the folks that are already buying German or Swedish wagons would probably not buy a Ford or Lincoln wagon anyway. Yeah - I'm close to the U.S. Northeast. I'm not sure how these things sell there. The only thing I've heard is that Subaru is quite popular across the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Volvo has pondered getting out of the wagon market, Subaru has all but abandoned it. (The Forester and Outback are Crossovers) MB has the E-class at 60K and BMW has the 3 series, Audi left the wagon market in the US a few years ago. Cadillac and Acura both tried the wagon here and failed. As much as the internet loves wagons, there is NOT a market large enough for them here. The only market where wagons still matter at all is in Europe and the SUV/Crossover boom there is cutting into wagon market share there as well. Wagons don't sell in China or the US, Ford would sell more Galaxy Minivans at a higher profit margin than they would wagons.Like the BOF RWD car, Wagons are dead in the US. Move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Volvo has pondered getting out of the wagon market, Subaru has all but abandoned it. (The Forester and Outback are Crossovers) MB has the E-class at 60K and BMW has the 3 series, Audi left the wagon market in the US a few years ago. Cadillac and Acura both tried the wagon here and failed. As much as the internet loves wagons, there is NOT a market large enough for them here. The only market where wagons still matter at all is in Europe and the SUV/Crossover boom there is cutting into wagon market share there as well. Wagons don't sell in China or the US, Ford would sell more Galaxy Minivans at a higher profit margin than they would wagons. Like the BOF RWD car, Wagons are dead in the US. Move on. Don't forget the Dodge Magnum! Oh wait, maybe we should be forgetting it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt in blue Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think wagon popularity has a lot to do with where you live. In the US, most houses are multi car (three drivers and three cars at my house, for example). When you have access to multiple vehicles, you tend to end up with purpose specific vehicles - the person with the longest commute drives the most fuel efficient, someone with a shorter commute drives a truck or a big SUV, etc. You can cover all your needs with separate vehicles. Among urban dwellers who are "car light" - one car in the house, I see more hatchbacks and small wagons. You don't want something large if you're constantly going for small spots and tight garages but you also want a car that can do it all. You want something big enough that you can move a piece of furniture if needed - you don't want to take a mattress on the bus like these guys). I know plenty of people who live closer in who own a car, but use it for shopping and hauling, not commuting. Around the rapidly urbanizing area of my office, more and more of the cars I see are becoming more wagon like. Forrester and Outback may technically be crossovers, but they both ride and drive more wagon like than SUV like. I would have seriously considered the Forrester if it weren't for the archaic transmission it had in 2012 when I was shopping and the Outback if it had a higher towing capacity. Of course, I'm also on record here that I will trade in my Escape sight unseen for a Focus wagon - preferrably with the 2.0 diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Like the BOF RWD car, Wagons are dead in the US. Move on. Forrester and Outback may technically be crossovers, but they both ride and drive more wagon like than SUV like. The term "wagon" is close to dead. However, so many choose to call what is clearly a wagon, a crossover. Maybe Lincoln could do a derivative of the Focus wagon, raise it 4 inches, put the RS engine and AWD into it, even offer it with a manual yet call it....a CUV. Just like so many others. That will make all the people who hate the term "wagon" feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Nobody cares about the term "wagon". The difference beween a wagon and a crossover is seating height. My wife refuses to own anything that sits as low as my Fusion. She likes to sit up higher and crossovers do that but with more car-like ride and handling. Outside of that it's simply a styling preference for the utility look over the wagon look. I'm so sick of people who think there is some kind of stigma associated with a wagon or some kind of prestige associated with a utility/crossover that makes people like or hate them. It's a simple matter of styling and seating position preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm so sick of people who think there is some kind of stigma associated with a wagon or some kind of prestige associated with a utility/crossover that makes people like or hate them. It's a simple matter of styling and seating position preference. Um.......it's an internet forum. There are thousands like it. No need to take it so seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Um.......it's an internet forum. There are thousands like it. No need to take it so seriously. Not serious. I just get tired of reading it over and over and over..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Not serious. I just get tired of reading it over and over and over..... It's not a life and death topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's not a life and death topic. I didn't say it was. I just said I was sick of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Another take on wagons and minivans and CUV's. From Autoblog http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/05/mazda5-may-not-be-long-for-this-world/ Mazda5 may not be long for this world Autocar from the UK reports that company officials confirm the Mazda5 is being discontinued there, with no replacement planned. Autoblog reached out to Mazda North America, but the company would not verify future product changes in this region.Though, the model's cancellation would hardly be a surprise to follow in North America, as well. The minivan market is a tough place these days, and dealers tend to prefer more expensive models for their high margins. Even FCA US is abandoning the inexpensive portion of the segment for the next-gen Chrysler Town & Country.The Mazda5 isn't exactly a sales standout, either. Mazda sold 11,613 of them in all of 2014, which was a 16.4 percent drop from 13,884 in 2013. http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/05/mazda5-may-not-be-long-for-this-world/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The reason I put ( Europe ) next to the C-Max is that with the introduction of Ford's "Prius fighter" I think it is less likely that North America will get the next-gen C-Max. However...there are other possibilities. Noooo don't orphan my baby! :-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Nobody cares about the term "wagon". The difference beween a wagon and a crossover is seating height. My wife refuses to own anything that sits as low as my Fusion. She likes to sit up higher and crossovers do that but with more car-like ride and handling. Outside of that it's simply a styling preference for the utility look over the wagon look. I'm so sick of people who think there is some kind of stigma associated with a wagon or some kind of prestige associated with a utility/crossover that makes people like or hate them. It's a simple matter of styling and seating position preference. Certain products do have stigmas that come with them, and Minivans and Wagons do have them. Most people hate minivans till they own one. I know my wife will never be seen in one..she tells me that all the time. If I had to get a family truckster for a lack of a better term as my own car, I'd get a Ecoboost Flex for the family...or even a Fusion wagon if it was ever offered. But we'd made do with a CUV otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Certain products do have stigmas that come with them, and Minivans and Wagons do have them. Most people hate minivans till they own one. I know my wife will never be seen in one..she tells me that all the time. If I had to get a family truckster for a lack of a better term as my own car, I'd get a Ecoboost Flex for the family...or even a Fusion wagon if it was ever offered. But we'd made do with a CUV otherwise... This is where I have an issue with the term "stigma". You know why most people don't like minivans? Styling. They're just not attractive. My wife refuses to drive one. She also refuses to drive a Flex and a MKC for the same reason - she simply doesn't like the styling. It has nothing to do with soccer moms or any other perception of who drives what. Same for wagons. Or any other vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 This is where I have an issue with the term "stigma". You know why most people don't like minivans? Styling. They're just not attractive. My wife refuses to drive one. She also refuses to drive a Flex and a MKC for the same reason - she simply doesn't like the styling. It has nothing to do with soccer moms or any other perception of who drives what. Same for wagons. Or any other vehicle. Would she drive an Explorer? My wife would. But after the test drive she did not like it. I suggested she drive the Flex as it would also meet our needs. She said she didn't like the looks of the Flex and did not want to. I told her it would not hurt just to take it on a quick drive..... That was all it took. She was sold. Now she rarely lets me drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 She owned 2 Explorers, an Expedition and an Aviator prior to the Edge so yes. She refuses to drive anything that she doesn't like to look at. Can't say I blame her. My point was she hates minivans because they're ugly, not because they have some stigma attached to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Would she drive an Explorer? My wife would. But after the test drive she did not like it. I suggested she drive the Flex as it would also meet our needs. She said she didn't like the looks of the Flex and did not want to. I told her it would not hurt just to take it on a quick drive..... That was all it took. She was sold. Now she rarely lets me drive it. Ha! That's exactly how we came to own a Flex. When the concept was released, I showed her a pic and said 'here's your next vehicle'. She laughed and said 'no, it's ugly.' Well, it just so happened that we were expecting child #3 the time the Flex was released (a couple years after the concept). We want to drive an Explorer since that is what she always wanted, and she just didn't like the way it drove. They had a Flex on the lot and she commented on how ugly it is. Once she sat in it, though, she (and I) was blown away with how nice the interior was. It drove great and fit our needs perfectly. With the second row bucket seats, there's plenty of room for one kid to walk through to the back while the other two sit in the middle row. The second-row leg room is a HUGE plus. Since all of our kids will be out of child seats when we buy our next vehicle, we may just go with a 2-row CUV instead of a 3-row if the Flex is no longer around. Maybe an Edge or MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 She owned 2 Explorers, an Expedition and an Aviator prior to the Edge so yes. She refuses to drive anything that she doesn't like to look at. Can't say I blame her. My point was she hates minivans because they're ugly, not because they have some stigma attached to them. My point was that the Flex would be a much better seller if people actually took the time to overcome their initial reaction and drive one. Wouldn't hurt if Ford actually tried to sell them. I haven't even tried the ecoboost version either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Would she drive an Explorer? My wife would. But after the test drive she did not like it. I suggested she drive the Flex as it would also meet our needs. She said she didn't like the looks of the Flex and did not want to. I told her it would not hurt just to take it on a quick drive..... That was all it took. She was sold. Now she rarely lets me drive it. My mom also hated the exterior of the Flex, but loved the interior and the EcoBoost sealed the deal for her to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 My point was that the Flex would be a much better seller if people actually took the time to overcome their initial reaction and drive one. Wouldn't hurt if Ford actually tried to sell them. I haven't even tried the ecoboost version either. I have always thought that the Flex had a lot of good attributes and success could be salvaged without too major of a restyle. This vehicle wasn't nearly as broke as the Aztek and other notoriously unloved cars. We didn't buy one, but my wife also warmed up to the Flex after getting in the drivers seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I didn't know the Flex was one of Ford's "small cars"? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I didn't know the Flex was one of Ford's "small cars"? ;-) Didn't you know? It's Flexible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I tried that with the MKC. Just drive it I said, you might like it. No joy. We have an Escape Titanium instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I tried that with the MKC. Just drive it I said, you might like it. No joy. We have an Escape Titanium instead. Wait, she liked the Escape but not the MKC? Oh well, saved the extra coin for your track time I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yep. I didn't mind the $7K savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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