akirby Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Seems like it was the V8 Mountaineer but I'm not 100% sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Do you see where it says: "Not recommended for use on dry pavement"? No 4wd should be used on dry pavement in lo or high, AWD is another story since it allows for slippage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yep, the V8 was available with AWD only, from the Explorer on up. IIRC, EVERY V8 Explorer/Mountaineer was AWD only (but I could be wrong on the later models). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yep, the V8 was available with AWD only, from the Explorer on up. IIRC, EVERY V8 Explorer/Mountaineer was AWD only (but I could be wrong on the later models). Really? I thought the V8 model also came with selectable 4WD, at least in the last two BOF generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 not being a Suv guy (but being a Mercury guy) I remember the Mountaineer having a different transmission than the Explorer ... think the Merc was AWD (& no remembrance of the Aviator) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Really? I thought the V8 model also came with selectable 4WD, at least in the last two BOF generations. Like I said, I could be wrong. Maybe the last two gens got the selectable 4WD, but I know for sure that when the V8 first showed up in the Explorer, it was AWD only. My mom had a '96...my sister owns it now and it still runs like a top. That 5.0 sounds awesome! My mom also had an '02 with the 4.6L V8, and I thought it was AWD only as well, but can't remember for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I remember the full time AWD came with the 5.0L because my parents had a 1996 one and that was the only one my father cared for. And I remember that was till the new generation came in. Moutaineer I believe also received same treatment, not sure if it was coupled with the 4.6L at some later point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Are you back on the sinus medication? 4A (4x4 AUTO): In this mode, electronic control four-wheel-drive power is delivered to all four wheels, as required, for increased traction. For all on-road conditions, including dry road surfaces, wet pavement, snow or gravel. Emphasis added. 4x2 is effectively AWD lockout. The reason why 4HI and 4LO are not recommended for dry pavement is because there is no center diff to prevent driveline windup. Edited October 16, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking of the last Aviator and Mountaineer. Wasn't the 4A system the only one available for those models? I seem to remember it as such. Either Cologne V6s Explorers & Mountaineers, or just the Mountaineers used a different system with a viscous coupling that functioned as a center diff. Ford *used* to have a fact sheet on their media site that explained this, but it's gone since they redid the site, and I can't find comprehensive information on the general internet. I'm sure FordTech1, or one of the other service reps that frequent the board would know. But yes, Ford *did* have a viscous coupling/fulltime AWD setup on a Mercury Mountaineer--and possibly also an Explorer--once upon a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) No 4wd should be used on dry pavement in lo or high, AWD is another story since it allows for slippage. The Ford system *does not* allow for slippage if it is locked on, as it does not have a center diff. In that respect, when the 'off' axle is engaged it is much like a conventional 4x4 system. With 4A (automatic), torque is transferred as the system's software sees fit, in 10% increments. You can run 4A on dry pavement because under all normal circumstances no power is being sent to the off axles. Edited October 16, 2014 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotdog14 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Wrong again. 2015 Expedition: Exactly what I was thinking. I have a 2008 and the system operates pretty much the same. Selectable 4 Auto, 4 High, 4 Low, 2 WD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Exactly what I was thinking. I have a 2008 and the system operates pretty much the same. Selectable 4 Auto, 4 High, 4 Low, 2 WD. Sshhhhh......don't tell Richard....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 what is going on in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 4 AUTO is NOT full time AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The Expedition's 4LO 4HI and 4AUTO should work just fine. It's the 4LO and 4HI that gives it better capability over the current Explorer part time AWD only setup. And you could make it full time AWD with a center diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can't just drop a center diff into a transfer case. It's more likely that Ford would just purchase a full time AWD system from BW or somebody. Further, I can't imagine that having a 4-HI button makes the Expy any more capable than the current Explorer. The current Explorer's software will split torque as long as conditions necessitate. The only valuable bit is the reduction gear, and you could add that to a FWD-based system as easily as to a RWD system, if customer demand necessitated it. There's just precious little interest in a 7-passenger vehicle capable of serious off-roading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can't just drop a center diff into a transfer case. It's more likely that Ford would just purchase a full time AWD system from BW or somebody. Further, I can't imagine that having a 4-HI button makes the Expy any more capable than the current Explorer. The current Explorer's software will split torque as long as conditions necessitate. The only valuable bit is the reduction gear, and you could add that to a FWD-based system as easily as to a RWD system, if customer demand necessitated it. There's just precious little interest in a 7-passenger vehicle capable of serious off-roading. The current setup can't support sending torque to the rear for any length of time. Remember the pop mechanics sand dune test? Again - if you just want to continue appealing to the same customers then the current D4 system is fine. If you're looking to compete with Range Rover, Land Cruiser, Jeep GC, etc. then you need a full time 4WD system. I realize you don't think there is value there but Ford may think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The current setup can't support sending torque to the rear for any length of time. Remember the pop mechanics sand dune test? Again - if you just want to continue appealing to the same customers then the current D4 system is fine. If you're looking to compete with Range Rover, Land Cruiser, Jeep GC, etc. then you need a full time 4WD system. I realize you don't think there is value there but Ford may think otherwise. You could overheat the Expy system the same way, they run on the same principle. I seriously doubt that Range Rover customers would ever consider buying a Ford, which leaves you with the Land Cruiser and the Jeep Grand Cherokee. And you should really check out the sales figures for the Land Cruiser..... They've sold 2,209 this year. Finally, people need to get over the obsession with the Grand Cherokee. I expect that the new Edge will sell within a thousand or so units of it on a cheaper platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Finally, people need to get over the obsession with the Grand Cherokee. I expect that the new Edge will sell within a thousand or so units of it on a cheaper platform. The audacity of some people... daring to respect a successful, well-engineered, American product... Let alone that it is being produced by the company that "wasn't worth saving" according to the cronies running the bailout. I'll take my shots at Chrysler where they're due. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a product like the GC. I think the time has come for a "Get Off My Lawn" emoticon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You build it for the Aviator - and maybe the Navigator. That pays for the platform. Using it for Ford is gravy. You think it's stupid so let's just agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 If you're going to do the Navigator & the Expedition on the same platform that means two things: - You've gone a long way to building an overall business case that is a net positive, even after you account for the added cost of doing RWD/AWD in the Explorer - You're probably not going to do a luxury sedan on the same platform. -- And regarding the Grand Cherokee, this is my point: In what way is it so much better than the Edge that Ford should imitate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You build it for the Aviator - and maybe the Navigator. That pays for the platform. Using it for Ford is gravy. You think it's stupid so let's just agree to disagree. Are 40-50k a year sales going to make it profitable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Figure 25K for Aviator at $60K+ ATPs in the U.S. plus Australia and ROW should be at least 50K. Explorer was at 178K last year - this might push it over 200K. I think it's doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 And regarding the Grand Cherokee, this is my point: In what way is it so much better than the Edge that Ford should imitate it? Ask Motor Trend, C&D, or consumer report, they will be more than happy to tell you everything about how the GC is far beyond the competition in every way but fuel economy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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