Ford Plans New Hybrid Series To Compete With Prius

[akirby]

It's just an observation, don't read too much into it.

Exactly. Geez. When 85% of a specific high profile vehicle are being purchased by an ethnic group that is a small percentage of the general population it stands out.

 

And nowhere did I say or imply anything negative about it. I was more curious as to why it was happening.

[akirby]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using hybrid or EV tax credits towards lowering lease payments,

that's one of the big drivers for making electrification affordable to people who can benefit most form it.

 

There is something wrong with it. If it makes the vehicles cheap enough that people only buy them because of price then they'll only keep them for the initial lease period then get the next cheap vehicle.

 

I don't like the tax credit to begin with. But if you're going to do it then give it to folks who purchase and intend to keep them for 5+ years.

 

What's going to happen when all of those leafs hit the used car market in 3 years with no more subsidies?

 

It's only encouraging short term sales, not long term ownership.

[akirby]

Look akirby, me and my wife are Indian and we own the C-Max Energy. What the hell do you got against Indians you bastard!

 

Gary

Go ahead Gary. Do it one more time so I can suspend you. I dare you.

[GaryG]

It's just an observation, don't read too much into it.

 

Look Rick, you've made this site a Tea Party right wing wack job. Nick was a moderate, and I welcomed his post.

 

Gary

[fordmantpw]

 

Look Rick, you've made this site a Tea Party right wing wack job. Nick was a moderate, and I welcomed his post.

 

Gary

 

Call a mod a name and what do you expect? He didn't say anything against Indians, just an observation. Geez, lighten up!

[SoonerLS]

Look akirby, me and my wife are Indian and we own the C-Max Energy. What the hell do you got against Indians you bastard!

I thought this was satire when I first read it, but I guess not. The fact that you inferred insult where it was neither expressed nor implied says a lot more about you than it does about akirby. If he'd said that 85% of the people he'd seen driving Leafs were women, would you think he was making a derogatory statement about women?

[RichardJensen]

 

Look Rick, you've made this site a Tea Party right wing wack job. Nick was a moderate, and I welcomed his post.

 

Gary

 

 

Please do not make me take your posts seriously. It's not likely to end well.

[jpd80]

There is something wrong with it. If it makes the vehicles cheap enough that people only buy them because of price then they'll only keep them for the initial lease period then get the next cheap vehicle.

 

I don't like the tax credit to begin with. But if you're going to do it then give it to folks who purchase and intend to keep them for 5+ years.

 

What's going to happen when all of those leafs hit the used car market in 3 years with no more subsidies?

 

It's only encouraging short term sales, not long term ownership.

The 2015 Leaf S can be had at even lower lease rate...$199/mth @ 36 months but excludes taxes title and silence.

I think the important thing is the $29,000 price before discounts, that's what's slicing and dicing the competition.

 

And lets be real here, amortization on a 3 year old EV will be just as bad as an ICE, the things wil barely pull $14K

because buyers will have unassisted leasing but hey, it gets new tech into the used market where effects are felt.

[MadManMoon]

The 2015 Leaf S can be had at even lower lease rate...$199/mth @ 36 months but excludes taxes title and silence.

 

What's the going rate for silence these days?

[fordmantpw]

 

What's the going rate for silence these days?

 

As a parent of 3 kids (5, 9, 11), I'd pay a small fortune for a little silence! If I could get that in my car...even better!

[Edstock]

Well, with digital electronics, IMHO, there's no reason they couldn't offer Active Cabin Digital Noise Cancellation around the digital music. It wouldn't necessarily be perfect, but it could be a handy exercise tool if any of 'em ever want to play the tuba, bagpipes or a sackbut.

 

This is a sackbut:

 

[630land]

Makes sense since the average Joe/Joanne still thinks Ford makes only "gas hogging trucks" and "only a Prius gets good gas MPG."

Need to attack that misconception.

Edited August 26, 2014 by 630land

[bzcat]

I suspect that by 2019 model year, most new cars will have hybrid drivetrain option(s) so the next gen Focus will be designed to handle the battery pack much better.

 

As for making a specific Prius like hybrid-only model, I think that well has been tapped and not much more sales can be mined. I have argued before that Ford should make a Focus hybrid now with C-Max drivetrain and start building the Focus name as the hybrid brand since it is a volume product and in a form factor that Americans can accept. C-Max had a major strike against it - it is a wagon and Americans are just not interested in a wagon.

 

People buy Prius because it is a "prius", not necessarily because it is a hybrid. The persuadable hybrid buyers (the one using their right brain to make car purchase decisions instead of left brain) are already buying C-Max and Volt because they are demonstrably better electrified hybrid cars. The people who trade in one Prius after another are not the kind of buyers that will decide to buy a Ford [something] just because it is also an unique hybrid.

[2b2]

I suspect that by 2019 model year, most new cars will have hybrid drivetrain option(s)

 

so the next gen Focus will be designed to handle the battery pack much better...

Totally Agree about better battery packaging

tho

maybe?

they'll also make the exteriors of this collection more about aerodynamics than anything else?

 

afaik, it was the Max's height that mainly caused mpg to suffer in comparison to the Fusion's (64" vs 58")

which is also why I doubt ANY hybridCuvs until

as you said

EVERYthing has a variously-electrified version

[Fgts]

All i know this new system needs to be in the Explorer yesterday, i hope that's in Ford's plan to rollout this system in mass in it's fwd mainstreamers.

[jpd80]

Not really, the main competition would be diesel powered Grand Cherokee - the diesel option is around 8-10% take rate.

[Hemiman]

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/ford-vs-toyota--who-will-win-the-hybrid-war-212026755.html

 

Interesting

[jpd80]

It's hard to follow the trailblazer Prius, it's so engrained now that those who want one would probably pick it over a new competitor.

What Ford should be doing is making its current hybrids and energi vehicles better and more affordable.

 

I think this is more about California's legislation than anything, Ford needs a brilianf hybrid PHEV family to sell there,

that market will reward car makers who make the right moves there and punish those who don't change.

[Hemiman]

Not sure. . . . Your first sentence applies more to CA than any other state. Very much a "me-too" status conscious population.

[Harley Lover]

Ford need to have a unique selling point for this product line that will resonate with the market - producing a me too product will not work. IMO, Ford should offer a family of CUV- type products (the hottest product type) that eschew the 4 door hatch style of the Prius. I envision a line with the C-Max at the bottom, with perhaps an Escape next up the size chain, perhaps the Grand C-Max as an offering (or Transit Connect), and to stretch things to the limit, the Explorer at the top of the size chain. The only one of these products that don't currently ride on a variant of the C chassis is the Explorer, and of course it might very well move to the C's close cousin, CD.

 

IMO the market would respond to a variety of larger vehicles that are more in the CUV vein. Just one idea.

[jpd80]

And that's maybe why a "me too" product line is not the best approach, Fusion demonstrates how hybrid and electrification

can be blended with a mainstream vehicle, the result is a broad all-rounder that pleases many people including Ford's accountants.

 

I think this announcement may be more in the lines of C2 transferring European diesel buyers onto hybrid/EV,

at some point Ford has to decide which way to go and I think this is the hint of things to come...

[silvrsvt]

I think this is more about California's legislation than anything, Ford needs a brilianf hybrid PHEV family to sell there,

that market will reward car makers who make the right moves there and punish those who don't change.

 

Not sure. . . . Your first sentence applies more to CA than any other state. Very much a "me-too" status conscious population.

 

Its just not that...there are several other states (10 or so) that use the California emissions rules for cars also...its just not about California when it comes to that.

 

The other issue is this...Going from a 15 MPG SUV to a 30 MPG Smaller SUV has a nice improvement in saving money on gas, but going from that 30 MPG SUV to a 45 MPG Hybrid car has a much smaller improvement in savings...and I'd assume going higher then this is starting to get into the realm of diminishing returns.

 

http://www.datagenetics.com/blog/april12014/index.html

[jpd80]

 

 

Its just not that...there are several other states (10 or so) that use the California emissions rules for cars also...its just not about California when it comes to that.

 

The other issue is this...Going from a 15 MPG SUV to a 30 MPG Smaller SUV has a nice improvement in saving money on gas, but going from that 30 MPG SUV to a 45 MPG Hybrid car has a much smaller improvement in savings...and I'd assume going higher then this is starting to get into the realm of diminishing returns.

 

http://www.datagenetics.com/blog/april12014/index.html

Precisely. Government legislation looks at broad brush improvement with huge wow factor but increasingly unrealistic but

those gains may come at a heck of a cost when really, all we need to do is encourage people to buy more efficient vehicles.

 

CAFE does not consider the fuel used in stop - go city cycle driving, improvements in this area needs to be recognized.

Edited August 30, 2014 by jpd80

[rmc523]

Precisely. Government legislation looks at broad brush improvement with huge wow factor but increasingly unrealistic but

those gains may come at a heck of a cost when really, all we need to do is encourage people to buy more efficient vehicles.

 

CAFE does not consider the fuel used in stop - go city cycle driving, improvements in this area needs to be recognized.

What needs to be looked at is traffic signal coordination/timing.....meaning they need to coordinate the lights on major roads with each other. I can't tell you how many times the light you're at will turn green, just for the next one a block down turns red, so you only get a block before you're sitting and waiting/idling again. I just think there could be a better setup for the timing of lights to avoid that type of stop and go, or at the very least, lessen it.

[Hugh]

This is a sackbut:

 

That looks a little rusty...