silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Look at last months sales. GM did much better than Ford in fullsize trucks. Who had higher incentives to move them out in prep for the new models coming out? :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 The Chevy and GMC dealers here in Pittsburgh are drastically cutting the prices on the current half ton pick-ups. I guess to make room for the new ones. Who is going to buy the new models when the old ones are much less money. Most pick up owners drive their trucks for a few years. I don't see anyone here rushing to pay a premium price for the GMT900. Especially with gas around $3.10/gal. The F-Series may take a hit but so will the rest of the market. In addition Truck buyers tend to be more brand loyal than the rest of the market. I don't see how any of this is Mark Fields' fault. Ford has needed to increase its concentration on the car market for years. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are doing well here and I see 500/Freestyles much more often. The update needs to happen ASAP. BTW the Car Talk Guys are recommending the Freestyle as the best alternative to SUVs. It is going to take some time for all this to hash out but I am optimistic. The Edge should take up some of the Explorer slack. Ford may not sell 3 million cars this year. If they sell what they do at a profit that is better than having a fire sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman6 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 everyone seems to be concerned with fuel mileage, production numbers and all kinds of other nonsense. the problem is that this US economy has been driven by the middle class, and upper class wannabes spending the equity in their homes to live above the level that that their income will support.how else could these people afford to buy a 25-35-45k truck that will lose 20% of value as soon as the 72 month finance contrct is approved. when interest only mortgages are the fastest growing segment of the housing finance market and a large segment of what is left of the middle class are spending themselves into sub prime oblivion, ford and the others were there to take advantage of the situation as any good corporation should. do you think they were aware that after this boom there would be no more major customer base for all this shiny ego candy? hell yes they were, do we think that all that second guessing we were doing for the last 5 years wondering why we didnt have a small diesel for the f-series, why CAFE standards were forgotten about, how we all had the insight that detroit seemed to be lacking. they have a plan. 9-11 along with bush and co. played right into their plan. the timing of the uaw contract and the current administration along with bankruptcy will eliminate what henry couldnt when he was alive, the uaw. billy dont care that every day more shareholders see him as a bumbling boob. he is there to take the fall and golden parachute himself into a pile of class b, and wait while the "new ford motor company" grows as a brand manager while out-sourced labor builds the product and some salaried scab slaps the "blue oval" on this imported crap. the sad reality is that some of the few remaining survivors of this corporate gluttony will continue to purchase this crap, just as those uaw morons that are driving fusions, land rovers,vulvos and jags are asking their COMPANY-PAID union reps if they think their plant will close. hell yes its going to close and you are going to lose your ass cause you bet your future on a foundation of multiple re-fi's, company stock and the dream of being what you arent. have a nice day and kiss your ass goodby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 One factor that is being ignored here is that the GMT 900 linup across the board gets better fuel economy than Ford, GM, Toyota, Dodge or Nissan. I asw a commercial for the Chevy Suburban and it gets 21 MPG highway- not bad for a barge like that. Unfortunately for Ford, the GMT 900 SUVs outsell the Navigator/Expedition about four to one. One of the major problems here is obvious- Ford does not have things like displacement on demand with its engines to raise fuel economy like GM has. Had Junior not broken the promise he made a few years ago to raise fuel effeceincy by 25 percent for large trucks and SUVs, we would not be having this discussion. Anyway, any movement of the Silverado ahead of the F-Series will be a huge psychological blow to Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks will fly Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 . But it is al based on TRUST and BELIEF .. something I am free to have, because whoile I am a huge Ford fan, I do not work for Ford - I do not see - or experience myself - the despair of the hourly, like so many of you do, or the cynicism of the salaried, like G- reports .. But I do have tha trust. Igor Trust and belief what most hourly workers don't have lately, ask about 30,000 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 One factor that is being ignored here is that the GMT 900 linup across the board gets better fuel economy than Ford, GM, Toyota, Dodge or Nissan. I asw a commercial for the Chevy Suburban and it gets 21 MPG highway- not bad for a barge like that. Unfortunately for Ford, the GMT 900 SUVs outsell the Navigator/Expedition about four to one. But the problem is that in the Real world, the new GMT900 don't do any better then the outgoing models if not worse. Never trust the EPA MPG ratings, because they are "best case" scenario. Plus if your buying this type of vechicle, is the difference between 14/15 19/21 vs the new Expedition going to really change your mind? It works out to roughly $200 bucks extra over the course of the year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 But the problem is that in the Real world, the new GMT900 don't do any better then the outgoing models if not worse. Never trust the EPA MPG ratings, because they are "best case" scenario. Plus if your buying this type of vechicle, is the difference between 14/15 19/21 vs the new Expedition going to really change your mind? It works out to roughly $200 bucks extra over the course of the year... You have to figure that a lot of people lease. With some of the sweet lease deals out there, saving on gas may be a selling point. i think that we have to look more at the pickups too, a lot of the lower-end full-size pickups (under $25 K) are purchased/leased by budget conscious people who may be buying on price and overall cost of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 You have to figure that a lot of people lease. With some of the sweet lease deals out there, saving on gas may be a selling point. i think that we have to look more at the pickups too, a lot of the lower-end full-size pickups (under $25 K) are purchased/leased by budget conscious people who may be buying on price and overall cost of ownership. But is an extra $5 bucks a week going to kill them? Thats the price difference between the new Expedition and GMT9000 trucks in fuel costs. I'm sure the 6 speed will find its way into the F-150 also and bump up the MPG on it also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 But is an extra $5 bucks a week going to kill them? Thats the price difference between the new Expedition and GMT9000 trucks in fuel costs. I'm sure the 6 speed will find its way into the F-150 also and bump up the MPG on it also... Blue and Silver (heh) Ford figured that the only people left in the market for ful lSUV's and Trucks are CORE buyers .. not peopel that realized, that they might manager to squeeze in an Expedition, while all they need is an Explorer or Edge or even Escape. With truck, Ford sees the same trend - they believe that people who should be drivign cars or Rangers will nto be buying F150 or SD anymore ... hence their approach - The expedition is by great margin the best Full size SUV you can buy.. it outtow anything else, it has real 3rd row seats (a FOOT MORE 3rd row legrroom than Tahoe) and in both versions, more cargospace than Tahoe/Suburban. The sheetmetal is not as attractive, and they get somewhat less Fueleconomy ... but Ford's research says the buyers that are left in the market do not give a flying crap about those two things, of the truck performs to the cutting edge needs they have. GM toog a broader approach and designed a decent truck, but a truck that is also very attractive to non-core cutomers. I as a diehard car buyer love the look of the GMT900's - trucks or SUV's ... however this broader Focus teruned a truck that is not as capable as the Expedition. The sales this fall and next spring will show whose research was more accurate... In the trucks .. F150 just upped its specs andoptions, and not perfectly matches the GM trucks or outdoes them.. again .. their mileage is a litle less, but if you have a 2 year old truck model , that has proved reliable, and matches or outdoes the new kid on the block - if you are a person who really needs a workhorse truck, you will go for the F150... if you are a suburbanite that likes to have a pretty truck in the driveway, the 1-2mpg advantage, and the newness of the sheetmetal, might sway yo uto the GMT900's // again we will see this fall and next sping, whose approach was "more on the money" Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) They need a much larger loyalty cash incentive for them, several thousand dollars and not a $500 coupon or whatever crap they are doing now. Ford should spin it that the F-150 is so damn durable that they are having trouble selling new ones... Edited August 21, 2006 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Well, this is what happens when people think "Gas is cheap, who cares!" as they did back in the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96towncarcartier Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 2005Explorer... I agree with you 100%. I get sick of the constant tirade of "this is junk, that is junk" from people like bluecon. If you dont like it here, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. GM isn't doing much better and is in danger of losing it's rank as world's largest if THEY don't knuckle down too.... CEO Wagoner is at risk of losing his job, so THERE. Sales are still good, F150 sold over 901,000 last year... NO AUTOMAKER has EVER been able to come close to that, and GM won't be able to do it either. What really tickles me is that Toyoder can't too. I'm not anti-GM (since they're American made), I'm just really strong pro-Ford. But I am anti-foreign. haha. Maybe you should read the reviews. EVERY review has basically said the new Expedition is better then the new GM SUV's. OK Bluecon...we know you think the F-Series is a total piece of shit. Heck we know you think everything Ford builds is a POS...are you telling us anything new here? I'm done posting here for awhile unless things change. Sick and tired of nothing but the YEA! RAW RAW! FORD'S GOING BROKE SOON!!! WOO HOO!!! cheerleaders :cheerleader: I know...if you hate Ford it is a pretty exciting time for you. Kick em' HARD when they are down is the old saying. I am just sick and tired of the same crap everyday from the same people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 2005Explorer... I agree with you 100%. I get sick of the constant tirade of "this is junk, that is junk" from people like bluecon. If you dont like it here, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Why do you say I don't like it here? Do you think this site is only for Ford cheerleaders? Remember this is the site FMC sued to shut them up. GM isn't doing much better and is in danger of losing it's rank as world's largest if THEY don't knuckle down too.... CEO Wagoner is at risk of losing his job, so THERE. Very true. Sales are still good, F150 sold over 901,000 last year... NO AUTOMAKER has EVER been able to come close to that, and GM won't be able to do it either. What really tickles me is that Toyoder can't too. I am not going to look up the figures but if you combine Chevrolet and GMC truck sales you will find they have also sold over 900K. And outsold the F-series some years. Ford always compares the Ford sales against Chevy not the combined GM brands. compares I'm not anti-GM (since they're American made), I'm just really strong pro-Ford. But I am anti-foreign. haha. And I would like Ford to be successful but the way they were running the company is a recipe for disaster as I have been pointing out and is now my prediction are coming true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I dont' expect the new Super Duty to make much of a splash, only help to mantain Ford's hold on the market. I just recently saw the new Expedition and Navigator at the Woodward dream cruise and it's pretty clear to me that those vehicles will do nothing to help lagging sales. The GM trucks will grab all of the sales left to grab in that segment, the updated Fords are disappointing to say the least. ??? I beg to disagree here! How pray tell do you see aluminum engines in a truck ( GMT900 ) ??? How dumb is that??? I saw the extended Expedition. Now thats a very nice machine. Ford has done almost everything right on that thing. In fact, unless your a SysEng, you'd be damned hard put to find anything wrong with the Expedition. It is obviously better than the competition. So what does SysEng see that is bad? It ain't what I see, but what I don't see... specifically the specifications on that "6R" autotranny. I suspect its a 6R75 given no other data than the actual torque of the 5.4L. The 5.4L can do much better than that. It probably doesn't because a 6R75 would be right at its limits as is. Now if that were a 6R100, then the Expedition would get the strongest BUY signal from SysEng that you can get... I'd Buy the Extended model NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 (edited) Well, with the Fusion and 500 they underpriced the competition, but also the fusion and 500 while competitive aren't winning any comparos against the competition. Woulld Ford have been better to price them both around the same price as the camry and avalon and put the extra money into the cars to make them class leading? Yes and no -- because people devalue American cars because they automatically say "domestic = shitty product," Ford must fight on a price basis. Price is one of those important factors that come into play for a purchase, if the price is right. --- As for the F-150 losing sales, it's the economy. Gas prices hurt big truck sales in most locations. Not in the West (just saw a news report today on trucks sales not decreasing in Western states), but in most other places. Edited August 26, 2006 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.