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Falloff in F-series Trouble for Ford


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Ford is very dependent on the F-Series and large swings in the market will hurt them the most. This was going to happen either way, that's why Ford is building its non-truck products to offset decline. The F-Series will probably be outsold by the new GM units, perhaps for the first time in its history, largely due to Ford's unwillingness to give cars away. The F-Series has an excellent reputation so its downfall will probably be tied to its over-popularity. Meaning that it may make people more eager to seek out the alternatives to get something that stands out. The new GM trucks will provide that for a good year or two so I would expect a sizable percentage of F-Series sales to empty into Chevy dealerships until Ford does something new with the F-Series. I'm not sure Ford will respond by offering deep discounts.

 

I dont' expect the new Super Duty to make much of a splash, only help to mantain Ford's hold on the market.

 

I just recently saw the new Expedition and Navigator at the Woodward dream cruise and it's pretty clear to me that those vehicles will do nothing to help lagging sales. The GM trucks will grab all of the sales left to grab in that segment, the updated Fords are disappointing to say the least.

Edited by Edgey
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GM's new trucks will have two or three months of strong sales (first-one-on-the-block-syndrome) before dropping off to sub-2005 levels. High gas prices are affecting ALL full-size trucks, not just the F-series.

 

Gas prices are falling again ;)

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"Ford is very dependent on the F-Series and large swings in the market will hurt them the most. This was going to happen either way, that's why Ford is building its non-truck products to offset decline. "

 

From the Wall Street Journal yesterday:

 

"But Ford's problem isn't just that its SUVs and pickups aren't selling as they used to. It's that the cars and crossovers it sells aren't reaping competitive - or in some cases any - profits."

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I just recently saw the new Expedition and Navigator at the Woodward dream cruise and it's pretty clear to me that those vehicles will do nothing to help lagging sales. The GM trucks will grab all of the sales left to grab in that segment, the updated Fords are disappointing to say the least.

 

Maybe you should read the reviews. EVERY review has basically said the new Expedition is better then the new GM SUV's.

 

OK Bluecon...we know you think the F-Series is a total piece of shit. Heck we know you think everything Ford builds is a POS...are you telling us anything new here?

 

I'm done posting here for awhile unless things change. Sick and tired of nothing but the YEA! RAW RAW! FORD'S GOING BROKE SOON!!! WOO HOO!!! cheerleaders :cheerleader: I know...if you hate Ford it is a pretty exciting time for you. Kick em' HARD when they are down is the old saying. I am just sick and tired of the same crap everyday from the same people.

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Maybe you should read the reviews. EVERY review has basically said the new Expedition is better then the new GM SUV's.

 

OK Bluecon...we know you think the F-Series is a total piece of shit. Heck we know you think everything Ford builds is a POS...are you telling us anything new here?

 

I'm done posting here for awhile unless things change. Sick and tired of nothing but the YEA! RAW RAW! FORD'S GOING BROKE SOON!!! WOO HOO!!! cheerleaders :cheerleader: I know...if you hate Ford it is a pretty exciting time for you. Kick em' HARD when they are down is the old saying. I am just sick and tired of the same crap everyday from the same people.

Bye Bye!

 

Ford is very dependent on the F-Series and large swings in the market will hurt them the most. This was going to happen either way, that's why Ford is building its non-truck products to offset decline. The F-Series will probably be outsold by the new GM units, perhaps for the first time in its history, largely due to Ford's unwillingness to give cars away. The F-Series has an excellent reputation so its downfall will probably be tied to its over-popularity. Meaning that it may make people more eager to seek out the alternatives to get something that stands out. The new GM trucks will provide that for a good year or two so I would expect a sizable percentage of F-Series sales to empty into Chevy dealerships until Ford does something new with the F-Series. I'm not sure Ford will respond by offering deep discounts.

 

I dont' expect the new Super Duty to make much of a splash, only help to mantain Ford's hold on the market.

 

I just recently saw the new Expedition and Navigator at the Woodward dream cruise and it's pretty clear to me that those vehicles will do nothing to help lagging sales. The GM trucks will grab all of the sales left to grab in that segment, the updated Fords are disappointing to say the least.

The F-series has been outsold by GM many times. Ford compares sales to Chevy and claims the NO.1 spot.

If Chevy outsells the F-series that is news.

 

Gas prices are falling again ;)

Some are predicting oil at $40 barrel next year.

Probably depends on some semblance of peace in the Middle East.

 

 

"Yet, the history of the oil industry is replete with exaggerated demand forecasts, pessimistic supply limitations and sky-high prices. The median forecast of experts polled by the International Energy Workshop in January 1986 was for crude oil prices of $240 by 2005 (in today’s dollars). Four years earlier, the median forecast for 2000 was $400."

 

http://www.mises.org/story/1892

 

All the more reason to get the 4.0 litre version of the new Duratec V6s in production ASAP.

The F-150 is to heavy for a V6.

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This is devastating for Fords future and will be worse with GM launching there new trucks.

 

I don't agree with the argument that GM launching new trucks should cause Ford lost share at all. Remember the fanfare with which GM's new SUV's were launched at the beginning of the year? AND NOW THEY ARE SLOWING THE LINES: http://transport.seekingalpha.com/article/15409

 

So I think a reasonable argument can be made that GM might gain a few early conquest sales, but by the middle of next year (at the latest) Ford will retain its customary position in terms of market share. Ford seems convinced that the market for trucks has permanently shrunk, and they are in a better position than GM to match production capacity to sales. Toyota must be dropping bricks in their drawers, with a new truck plant coming onstream (eventually - they keep postponing the intro date of the truck), and the market size falling. It will be fun to watch them scramble if the market embraces the Tundra they way it embraced the Titan. I guess they'll build a lot more Siennas than planned (I think that product will share the plant, just like the Nissan minivan shares the Titan plant).

Edited by Harley Lover
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Bye Bye!

The F-series has been outsold by GM many times. Ford compares sales to Chevy and claims the NO.1 spot.

If Chevy outsells the F-series that is news.

Some are predicting oil at $40 barrel next year.

Probably depends on some semblance of peace in the Middle East.

"Yet, the history of the oil industry is replete with exaggerated demand forecasts, pessimistic supply limitations and sky-high prices. The median forecast of experts polled by the International Energy Workshop in January 1986 was for crude oil prices of $240 by 2005 (in today’s dollars). Four years earlier, the median forecast for 2000 was $400."

 

http://www.mises.org/story/1892

The F-150 is to heavy for a V6.

 

Did they stop offering the 4.2 SEFI V-6 in the F-150?

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Did they stop offering the 4.2 SEFI V-6 in the F-150?

 

No and it just goes t osay how much Mr. Bluecon knows about Ford ...

 

SEFI V6 is still the base engine on the F150..

 

As I said before ... Ford is in trouble because of the failling Truck and SUV sales .... However again... Fseries is still gaining marketshare.. but the salesare down.

 

However .. in the light of this ... Ford adds downtime to the truck plants, to align supply with the newly low demand ... and NO .. that BAD .. that is a MISTAKE .... Hey Fitch Lower the rating again ...and bluecon .. start a few new threads ..Ford is going down the crapper, because THEY REPLY TO THE CUSTOMER DEMAND!!!!..

 

This is ridiculous.

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I love how the GM fans think that the Silvy/Sierra are somehow invulnerable to rising gas prices. I remember all the talk a while back about how the Tahoe would save GM and everybody was excited over the early sales jumps, and look at it now. I like GM and I do like the Tahoe, but the attitudes of some of its fans are nothing but blind arrogance. Ford's not going anywhere, GM's not going anywhere...enough of the doom-and-gloom crap already.

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I love how the GM fans think that the Silvy/Sierra are somehow invulnerable to rising gas prices. I remember all the talk a while back about how the Tahoe would save GM and everybody was excited over the early sales jumps, and look at it now. I like GM and I do like the Tahoe, but the attitudes of some of its fans are nothing but blind arrogance. Ford's not going anywhere, GM's not going anywhere...enough of the doom-and-gloom crap already.

 

I can understand GM fans ... what scares me is the attitude of many Ford employees on this board .. they should know better ...

 

Igor

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^^^ I undesrant the gloom of the last years ... but having our own experiences, we should know that the GMT900 will do nothing more, than protect GM's marketshare in the ashrinking segment - they will nto save the company, theu will help it some - at best.

 

I guess my response was not clearly formulated ... however one thing I believe Ford and Fields have bee nsaying that they are not shrinking the company tpo profitability - they are simply making sure they can survive until the product comes here - and for that, they have to cut costs, becuase the revenues will not go up next year .. only the year after. I know people like DCK will come and say it is excuses, but I believe it .. I lived through Ford EO resurrection - I drive the baby of Mazda resurrection.

 

But it is al based on TRUST and BELIEF .. something I am free to have, because whoile I am a huge Ford fan, I do not work for Ford - I do not see - or experience myself - the despair of the hourly, like so many of you do, or the cynicism of the salaried, like G- reports ..

 

But I do have tha trust.

 

Igor

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What kind of attitude do you expect us to have? I have been from Ford to Visteon, and now back to Ford. My plant is almost sure to close, and there is no word if anybody in ACH will be able to transfer to a Ford plant. I have been hearing nothing but doom and gloom for 6 years. Now, if Bill Ford would come onto TV and tell us all how he is trying to save the company, how he is trying to figure out how we can produce MORE cars people actually want to buy so we can have some job security, that would be a different story. You cannot shrink a company to prosperity. You have to produce something people want to buy. Do you see anything to get excited about? The triplets? Made in Mexico...Edge? Made in Canada. What else is there?

 

Put yourself in that situation, and tell me what type of attitude YOU would have.

 

Unfortunately times are volatile. We have seen twice what happens when Bill Ford makes declarations. They end up being retracted and add fuel to the fire. Ford cannot afford to be forthcoming with too much. There are too many like yourself that have been burned and only need a reason to attack.

 

Ford Jr, Fields and team are trying their best to communicate as much as possible while not pre-committing to plans that are constantly being modified because of the externals. I think the way forward cascades and Septembers announcements are managemenst way of addressing those concerns that you raise. I know that much of that stuff sounds like marketing material and does not address most of the issues but the plan is 6 months old and still developing. They have shown some changes to product to make them more bold...maybe your frustrated at the ACH/Visteon situation then anything else. Just be lucky you don't work for Delphi.

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"Ford is very dependent on the F-Series and large swings in the market will hurt them the most. This was going to happen either way, that's why Ford is building its non-truck products to offset decline. "

 

From the Wall Street Journal yesterday:

 

"But Ford's problem isn't just that its SUVs and pickups aren't selling as they used to. It's that the cars and crossovers it sells aren't reaping competitive - or in some cases any - profits."

Well, with the Fusion and 500 they underpriced the competition, but also the fusion and 500 while competitive aren't winning any comparos against the competition. Woulld Ford have been better to price them both around the same price as the camry and avalon and put the extra money into the cars to make them class leading?

 

Maybe you should read the reviews. EVERY review has basically said the new Expedition is better then the new GM SUV's.

 

OK Bluecon...we know you think the F-Series is a total piece of shit. Heck we know you think everything Ford builds is a POS...are you telling us anything new here?

 

I'm done posting here for awhile unless things change. Sick and tired of nothing but the YEA! RAW RAW! FORD'S GOING BROKE SOON!!! WOO HOO!!! cheerleaders :cheerleader: I know...if you hate Ford it is a pretty exciting time for you. Kick em' HARD when they are down is the old saying. I am just sick and tired of the same crap everyday from the same people.

No one is cheerleading, just coming to the senses of what is wrong with ford and what they need to fix. The New expedition is better than the Tahoe, but which one looks outdated like itwas launched 5 years ago because the company was too damn cheap to invest in new sheetmetal? Oh yeah they ford, like always. That is the problem, Ford might actually be able to give the Tahoe a run for its money in sales if they invested in the sheetmetal, but it is typical ford, just like the explorer and upcoming escape. Now Fields said those won't happen again and i believe him, but for now we still have 1 more year of lazy suv redesign launches wherfe Fields must swallow his pride and become amazed on just how much Ford didn't get it before he took over.

 

I don't agree with the argument that GM launching new trucks should cause Ford lost share at all. Remember the fanfare with which GM's new SUV's were launched at the beginning of the year? AND NOW THEY ARE SLOWING THE LINES: http://transport.seekingalpha.com/article/15409

 

So I think a reasonable argument can be made that GM might gain a few early conquest sales, but by the middle of next year (at the latest) Ford will retain its customary position in terms of market share. Ford seems convinced that the market for trucks has permanently shrunk, and they are in a better position than GM to match production capacity to sales. Toyota must be dropping bricks in their drawers, with a new truck plant coming onstream (eventually - they keep postponing the intro date of the truck), and the market size falling. It will be fun to watch them scramble if the market embraces the Tundra they way it embraced the Titan. I guess they'll build a lot more Siennas than planned (I think that product will share the plant, just like the Nissan minivan shares the Titan plant).

That doesn't make sense, the tahoe will be slowing production but it has gained a lot of marketshare in this declining market that the expedition will never see again. The same thing could happen to the Pick-up line.

 

The market may be deminishing and GM may sell less of the gmt900's than the previous models but their may very well increase meaning ford would bee declining a ton.

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You have to produce something people want to buy. Do you see anything to get excited about? The triplets? Made in Mexico...Edge? Made in Canada. What else is there?

 

Put yourself in that situation, and tell me what type of attitude YOU would have.

Maybe a Mazda like Igor drives. BONs second biggest Ford cheerleader wont even buy a Ford.

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I love how the GM fans think that the Silvy/Sierra are somehow invulnerable to rising gas prices. I remember all the talk a while back about how the Tahoe would save GM and everybody was excited over the early sales jumps, and look at it now. I like GM and I do like the Tahoe, but the attitudes of some of its fans are nothing but blind arrogance. Ford's not going anywhere, GM's not going anywhere...enough of the doom-and-gloom crap already.

The gmt900's are probably going to decline in sale numbers but it is has absolutely nothing to do with market share. The market for these vehicles are declining.

 

Lets look at it with simple math:

 

say today the market for full size pick up is 200 units a year. ford sells 100 and gm sells 100, market share is 50/50 for them.

 

Now with gas prices the market tumbles to only 150 this year even while gm released new pick-ups

 

Now it should look like 75 and 75 for each of them but because gm released new pick-ups they declined but not that much and sold 85 units, Ford only sold 65. Which Means GM's market share rose from 50% to 57% while ford took a big on both acounts and is only at 43% market share. This is like what happened to the Full size SUV market, the new GM's declined in sales but gained a lot of market share, this could very well happen to the full-size pickup market as well.

Edited by DCK
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No and it just goes t osay how much Mr. Bluecon knows about Ford ...

 

SEFI V6 is still the base engine on the F150..

 

As I said before ... Ford is in trouble because of the failling Truck and SUV sales .... However again... Fseries is still gaining marketshare.. but the salesare down.

 

However .. in the light of this ... Ford adds downtime to the truck plants, to align supply with the newly low demand ... and NO .. that BAD .. that is a MISTAKE .... Hey Fitch Lower the rating again ...and bluecon .. start a few new threads ..Ford is going down the crapper, because THEY REPLY TO THE CUSTOMER DEMAND!!!!..

 

This is ridiculous.

I know you can buy a V6 and I know very few people do because of the weight of the F-150.

Buy the 4.6 and you will have a better more powerful engine with the same mileage.

And the 4.6 is actually underpowered for the F-150. That truck should have the 5.4.

 

If you look at the July sales figures you will realize F-series is not "still gaining marketshare".

 

I never wrote the stories. Apparently unaware to Igor these stories were first published in major newspapers. I am only the messenger. Don't shoot me.

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I know you can buy a V6 and I know very few people do because of the weight of the F-150.

Buy the 4.6 and you will have a better more powerful engine with the same mileage.

And the 4.6 is actually underpowered for the F-150. That truck should have the 5.4.

 

If you look at the July sales figures you will realize F-series is not "still gaining marketshare".

 

I never wrote the stories. Apparently unaware to Igor these stories were first published in major newspapers. I am only the messenger. Don't shoot me.

 

My brother's 2005 F150 Supercab with the 4.6L moves just fine. Probably can't tow 10K lbs, but that's not why he bought it. The 4.6L just has to rev a little to get moving, and for anyone that needs more power there's always the 5.4L. As for the 4.2L, I can't say I would buy one if it wasn't just for price, but it isn't like people are rushing to the Chevy dealer to buy the antiquated 4.3L V6 or to any fullsize truck to get a V6. But if I was buying a cheap work truck that just needed the bed space to carry stuff and wasn't going to tow much any of the V6's would do that job and save some money on the purchase price.

 

Are you saying that Ford is losing fullsize truck marketshare? If so, who is gaining? What is happening is that all fullsize trucks and SUV's are losing sales due to high gas prices, but I certainly haven't seen any sign that Ford is losing sales any faster than any other fullsize truck.

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I'm sure GM's hopes are increased marketshare but they may very well do good just to maintain what they have. Tundra may have some effect on Dodge and Nissan but its likely just a dismal fourth quarter for truck sales. Most half-ton owners are probably happy to keep what they have or buy used right now. There doesn't seem to be that much gain from buying right now because at least with Ford, Dodge and Nissan, their trucks haven't progressed that far from their last substantial upgrade or introduction as is the case with Nissan. Toyota and GM may have loyalists interested in buying, but I would imagine that even their truck buyers have been relatively happy with what they've bought in recent years. Ford and GM's competition for fleet business will probably be pretty fierce but the individual sales soft for awhile.

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My brother's 2005 F150 Supercab with the 4.6L moves just fine. Probably can't tow 10K lbs, but that's not why he bought it. The 4.6L just has to rev a little to get moving, and for anyone that needs more power there's always the 5.4L. As for the 4.2L, I can't say I would buy one if it wasn't just for price, but it isn't like people are rushing to the Chevy dealer to buy the antiquated 4.3L V6 or to any fullsize truck to get a V6. But if I was buying a cheap work truck that just needed the bed space to carry stuff and wasn't going to tow much any of the V6's would do that job and save some money on the purchase price.

 

Are you saying that Ford is losing fullsize truck marketshare? If so, who is gaining? What is happening is that all fullsize trucks and SUV's are losing sales due to high gas prices, but I certainly haven't seen any sign that Ford is losing sales any faster than any other fullsize truck.

All as I am saying is very few people buy a V6 in a full size truck. Their is no advantage to putting the new 4.0l in the F-150. The 4.6l is probably no more expensive to build and should have more torque than the V6.

I wouldn't buy the F-150 without the 5.4l.

 

Look at last months sales. GM did much better than Ford in fullsize trucks.

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