jpd80 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) If you find a post offensive, report it and let the mods sort it out. That way the thread isn't pulled off topic Edited July 20, 2014 by jpd80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 And there is nothing wrong with that. At least for the time being, folks are allowed to have their own beliefs and values, and everyone should respect other peoples beliefs and values. Being judgemental, and trying to force ones ideas on everyone is where the problems start. We work very hard to try to teach our 12-year-old that people are different, and to respect everyone, even if they do not believe as you do. akirby, chevys deserved it. He came into 4d4's thread with his only idea being crapping on it. That should never be allowed. Standing up for yourself should always be allowed. Again, we have taught our son that he always has the right to defend himself, no matter what the schools say. At some point, some neanderthal is going to have a broken nose, and our son will probably be suspended.................. and he has our complete support. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 If you find a post offensive, report it and let the mods sort it out. That way the thread isn't pulled off topic thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Of course he did, but allowing it to continue back and forth would serve no good purpose and 2 wrongs don't make a right. I responded with facts and pointed our chevys did not, at least not comparable facts to my situation and let him know. 1st time I was nice and used humor, 2nd time I used humor but felt the need to be more direct. If you feel that is wrong then ban me. While I do not post often have been a member for a while and I visit usually multiple times per day and you would lose a couple of more hits. The way this board has gone down the last few years maybe you need to lose one more member. I think your suggestion my back and forth with chevys was unwarranted deserves an apology in my opinion. Seems some others agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Personal attacks are not allowed. He certainly started it and your first few responses were fine but post 21 was a personal attack. I never said it was unwarranted or undeserved, just that it needs to stop. I also did not delete any posts. If you had not responded with post 21 I would have only given chevys the warning. Nobody's getting banned. I simply asked that the personal attacks stop. I don't think that's the least bit unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Personal attacks are not allowed. He certainly started it and your first few responses were fine but post 21 was a personal attack. I never said it was unwarranted or undeserved, just that it needs to stop. I also did not delete any posts. If you had not responded with post 21 I would have only given chevys the warning. Nobody's getting banned. I simply asked that the personal attacks stop. I don't think that's the least bit unreasonable. We keep in an attached garage in winter so not really gold in southern NC most of the time, but yes, heating does hurt a couple of MPG, slightly more than AC. We are conscientious about not using any unnecessary power but we use AC as wife does not like the windows down, messes with her hair. I think winter gas is probably the biggest differentiator, more so than temp. We do drive speed limit most of the time and are averaging 47 since purchase. I believe based on our results that most who get lower MPGs are the ones who choose to drive harder than we do, my 2 cents. this is what I have for post 21, please show what is wrong with that post or explain what your are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 We keep in an attached garage in winter so not really gold in southern NC most of the time, but yes, heating does hurt a couple of MPG, slightly more than AC. We are conscientious about not using any unnecessary power but we use AC as wife does not like the windows down, messes with her hair. I think winter gas is probably the biggest differentiator, more so than temp. We do drive speed limit most of the time and are averaging 47 since purchase. I believe based on our results that most who get lower MPGs are the ones who choose to drive harder than we do, my 2 cents. this is what I have for post 21, please show what is wrong with that post or explain what your are talking about. Well you conveniently left out all of the other parts. You are not as intelligent as a strawman hahahahahahahahahahahhahahah Dam if Forest has not come back to prove to one and all how totally ignorant he is. Now why don't you go jerk off somewhere else where folk might be interested in your idiocy. Do you not understand the meaning of "personal attack"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Well you conveniently left out all of the other parts. Do you not understand the meaning of "personal attack"? that is not what I see in post 21, something amiss with that but you are correct I did post those other things but based on what chevys posted it was more than deserved and not a persona attack as much as well deserved snark. Chevys has been a smart ass for over a year and he has called me stuff but I do not mind. I do not consider what I said an attack as much as description and if he continues to bring stupid, ignorant remarks I ill continue to beat the shit out of his remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I don't know what you're seeing but this is post 21 in its entirety: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 if he continues to bring stupid, ignorant remarks I ill continue to beat the shit out of his remarks. Ok, let me make this really really simple. Do not call other members stupid or ignorant or tell them to go jerk off. Got it? If the other member makes a personal attack on you then let the mods deal with it. If you insist on going back and forth with personal attacks then both of you will get a vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ok, let me make this really really simple. Do not call other members stupid or ignorant or tell them to go jerk off. Got it? If the other member makes a personal attack on you then let the mods deal with it. If you insist on going back and forth with personal attacks then both of you will get a vacation. you do what you need to do and I will do what I need to do I have had no problems with anyone here but chevys and if he calls me out or makes stupid or ignorant comments I do not need you or anyone else to resolve the issue, I am not that kind of person. and I am also done with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1336 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Here is a question I want to ask of you liberal green energy nut jobs. I bought a 2003 Honda 750 motorcycle that gets me 50 mpg consistant. Its as reliablale as the sun coming up in the east. Tell me again why I want by buy a hybrid like the Cmax or others? Please do the math to proof it. You cant. You have a straw man argument imo. Not picking on Ford her but everybody. Green energy and hybrids are a joke when you put pen to paper. Chevys: You got a Pen and a Sheet of Paper...You do the math! I bought a 2013 Ford C-Max SE Hybrid July 31, 2013. MSRP of $26.565 including (Delivery). I used X-Plan Pricing bringing the the price down to approx. $25K (+ -). Ford offered an extra $1000 Cash Rebate along with a Special Promotional extra $750 Cash Discount Offer I received by Mail. So, subtract another $1750 from $25,000, now we are closer to say, $23,250? Ford then Mailed (apology) Checks to Buyers to compensate for EPA inflated Fuel Economy Estimates. First one arrived last Fall for $550 and one arrived last week for an additional $475. Still calculating? Add in 36 months financing at .09% through Ford Credit. Now, considering the comfort, size, and performance of the C-Max Hybrid compared to a similar Vehicle, say a Ford Escape SUV, neither one being a (true) off the road Vehicle but sharing similar practicality and use. I have got a lifetime MPG average of 38.9. I drive in constant stop and go city driving and travel at 75 MPH on both I95 and the Florida Turnpike, not exactly "hyper-miling" behavior. Frankly, I have never bothered to (learn) the correct way to achieve optimum Hybrid Fuel Economy and really don`t care to. Being able to fill up once every 2 or 3 weeks while driving a decent size vehicle that has plenty of power, brakes and handles well is all I`m interested in. Averaging a constant 39 MPG regardless of driving conditions, to me, is enough reward. Please get back after you`ve sharpen (your) pencil a few times. Edited July 21, 2014 by phil1336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I do not need you or anyone else to resolve the issue, I am not that kind of person. You can't resolve anything with name calling and this is not that kind of forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes indeed. Here's Monty's "Stupid git"; the argument piece reminds me of a few flames here . . . You can't resolve anything with name calling and this is not that kind of forum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 You can't resolve anything with name calling and this is not that kind of forum. I don't think it is name calling saying someone is ignorant. Just stating they lack facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I don't think it is name calling saying someone is ignorant. Just stating they lack facts. Depends on how its used. Not debating this any more. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I know it's hard but the best bet is to stay on topic and let the mods deal with it, Edited July 21, 2014 by jpd80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1336 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Guess (Chevy) is still searching for a Pencil,Sheet of Paper, and a Calculator to "crunch" the numbers I provided him on (my) Ford C-Max Hybrid experience. I`m still "on Topic" I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What speeds were you averaging on the interstate bits? My last open-road drive was from San Diego to Yuma, across the Imperial Valley desert. There was a horrible cross-wind, but I was averaging 34MPG out and 38MPG back at about 73MPH. And while the cross-wind makes that an unreliable example, it is not too far off my experience driving the Central Valley, where I was getting 34MPG at 78MPH, 37-40 when I dropped down to ~73MPH. For comparison (to give the sense that I'm generally a speed and fuel conscious person), my last three tanks from around town have been 46, 46, and 44 MPG, probably 44 again on the current half-empty tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Here is a question I want to ask of you liberal green energy nut jobs. I bought a 2003 Honda 750 motorcycle that gets me 50 mpg consistant. Its as reliablale as the sun coming up in the east. Tell me again why I want by buy a hybrid like the Cmax or others? Please do the math to proof it. You cant. You have a straw man argument imo. Not picking on Ford her but everybody. Green energy and hybrids are a joke when you put pen to paper. I don't want to derail things again, but I'd say your picture of "liberal green energy nut jobs" is the straw man. Why do you imagine a "liberal green energy nut jobs" would dislike motorcycles? I'd say to the contrary, nothing says more "liberal green energy nut job" more than riding a small, efficient motorcycle: It doesn't take up as much space (placing less demand on road and parking infrastructure), it's small (requiring less energy and resources to build, deliver, and drive), easier to maintain (keeping the vehicle on the road longer, obviating the need to invest the energy into building a replacement), and less maintenance waste. The only drawback green-wise is their reduced emissions control systems generally contribute more to to smog-forming pollution. By contrasts, hybrids require more materials - especially more hazardous and rare materials, and have more complex systems than normal (reducing expected lifespan, amortizing manufacturing pollution over a shorter time). There are environmental costs to that, not just greater economic costs up front. It really is an environmental sacrifice to drive a fully enclosed pleasure-wagon, rather than a motorcycle or some form of collectivist transportation. But most people don't want to invest a lot of effort in being green, and half-assed is better than no-assed. So really, you're on the vanguard of green. Welcome to the "liberal green energy nut job" family! Edited July 24, 2014 by Noah Harbinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sorry I crapped on this thread. This goes back to an argument 4d4ever and I had way back over the Cmax mpg. I dont need to remind anybody it has been lowed twice since then by Ford and by a significant amount. Im a conservative, love powerful cars like Mustangs, and I let my political beliefs slip into this thread somehow and I should not have done that. I dont believe in hybrids because I have yet to see anybody make a business case for one given the high purchase price. That does not excuse me however from messing up somebodies thread that might help somebody else down the road. Sorry about that. Wont happen again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't want to derail things again, but I'd say your picture of "liberal green energy nut jobs" is the straw man. Why do you imagine a "liberal green energy nut jobs" would dislike motorcycles? I'd say to the contrary, nothing says more "liberal green energy nut job" more than riding a small, efficient motorcycle: It doesn't take up as much space (placing less demand on road and parking infrastructure), it's small (requiring less energy and resources to build, deliver, and drive), easier to maintain (keeping the vehicle on the road longer, obviating the need to invest the energy into building a replacement), and less maintenance waste. The only drawback green-wise is their reduced emissions control systems generally contribute more to to smog-forming pollution. By contrasts, hybrids require more materials - especially more hazardous and rare materials, and have more complex systems than normal (reducing expected lifespan, amortizing manufacturing pollution over a shorter time). There are environmental costs to that, not just greater economic costs up front. It really is an environmental sacrifice to drive a fully enclosed pleasure-wagon, rather than a motorcycle or some form of collectivist transportation. But most people don't want to invest a lot of effort in being green, and half-assed is better than no-assed. So really, you're on the vanguard of green. Welcome to the "liberal green energy nut job" family! I guess I am. But I paid 2500 bucks for a motorcycle that will run the quarter mile in 12.5 flat. Cant ride it in the cold or rain but it sure is fun in the summer months. By the way, since this is an older bike it does not have cats or fuel injection so I guess Im poluting a little bit. NOt sure how many hybrids you can buy that actually get 50 mpg consistantly for 2500 and will last for tens of thousands of miles. Im pretty sure my bang for the buck is better. I dont want to get off on politics but 4.00 a gallon gas is hard for everybody and you have to do what you have to do and I took the best route for me personally. Your results may vary and I love motorcycles anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Sorry I crapped on this thread. This goes back to an argument 4d4ever and I had way back over the Cmax mpg. I dont need to remind anybody it has been lowed twice since then by Ford and by a significant amount. Im a conservative, love powerful cars like Mustangs, and I let my political beliefs slip into this thread somehow and I should not have done that. [cutting sentence quoted below] That does not excuse me however from messing up somebodies thread that might help somebody else down the road. Sorry about that. Wont happen again. I've been away a while. I spent far more time reading BON before I bought my Ford than after! I'm definitely lacking context, and skipped most of the back and forth in this thread anyway. I hope I didn't get too political in my response either. I dont believe in hybrids because I have yet to see anybody make a business case for one given the high purchase price. I don't think there's any purely monetary case for a new car, period. It's a money sink. When I think of how much more I could have saved by staying in my old car another year... The only way you could ever justify it financially is to assume you want a new car, and thus to compare a new hybrid against a similar new non-hybrid. If you want to see what the worm eats, you compare an apple with a worm to an apple without one. You'd never learn anything about the worm by comparing an apple to a motorcycle. Frankly, I would have bought a C-Max even if it were offered in a conventional engine for a few grand less. Mostly I got it because I like the overall package and think it's one of the best vehicles Ford or anyone has ever put together in my price range, given my wants. Sure, I have fun gaming my commute for MPGs, but that's as much distraction as anything else. Because I don't care that much about the hybrid aspect, I've never actually done the math about whether a hypothetical conventional C-Max would save money compared to my actual C-Max. If you assume the Fusion, with an identical hybrid drivetrain as the C-Max, is a good stand-in to guess how much the hybrid adds to the price, I would expect a $4000 difference between hybrid and non-hybrid (based on the S model). That would have saved $70/month on my 5-year, 2% loan. I average pretty low mileage 1000 miles a month; my previous car averaged 26MPG, I am getting 44MPG on my C-Max. That's a decrease from 38.46 gallons/month to 21.74 gallons/month, or $66.88 /month at $4/gallon. It's probably more fair to again compare standard Fusion (26MPG combined rated) against its Hybrid (42MPG), 23.8 gallons/month, or $58/month. (Looking again, the difference between the hybrid and conventional Titanium trims is only $1600. If that more closely represents the marginal cost of the hybrid drivetrain, then the change to the loan price is only $28/month, which is pretty modest.) I actually feel a bit better now about the hybrid than I did before I started writing this reply! Edited July 25, 2014 by Noah Harbinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 7Guess (Chevy) is still searching for a Pencil,Sheet of Paper, and a Calculator to "crunch" the numbers I provided him on (my) Ford C-Max Hybrid experience. I`m still "on Topic" I hope? Not at all. Phil, from the math I did you need to drive 40K to break even on what you overpaid for a hybrid to begin with. Thats good. Then you come out on the good side of things and God help you if you need a repair on a hybrid. Thats going to get expensive. Still, impressed on the deal you made sir. Drive them long? I have a *96 GMC that is worn out that I keep driving. INsurance, taxes are dirt cheap. Still runs. * Run your liberal math on that one. Gets about 17 mpg on a good day and paid for long long ago. Never the less Phil, you have finally made a case and I applaud you. I will follow but dont hold your breath for me to b y a hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 My god, the pissing matches! No wonder I stopped coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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