the bottom line?

[BT]

It's not just gas prices. sales have been declining for the last few years. Bofore gas started to skyrocket? Why can't they sell anything? Is Fords reputation so F@#KED UP that customers won't even go into a Ford dealership? It not about boring designs either Ford has vehicles that compete in every segment yet ALL are in the shitter, WHY? There has to be a reason and gas prices aren't it.

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

It's not just gas prices. sales have been declining for the last few years. Bofore gas started to skyrocket? Why can't they sell anything? Is Fords reputation so F@#KED UP that customers won't even go into a Ford dealership? It not about boring designs either Ford has vehicles that compete in every segment yet ALL are in the shitter, WHY? There has to be a reason and gas prices aren't it.

 

Gas prices are the #1 reason trucks and SUVs aren't selling.

 

As for cars (besides Fusion, Milan, and Zepher) the boring design is killing them.

[DCK]

Gas prices are the #1 reason trucks and SUVs aren't selling.

 

As for cars (besides Fusion, Milan, and Zepher) the boring design is killing them.

Also for cars you can add in their very well earned reputation for being crap, they have not shaken off that image yet. Also they have inly three competitive cars the fusion, mustang and 500 with the focus and cv being uncompetitive crap.

Edited August 19, 2006 by DCK

[Hemiman]

Also for cars you can add in their very well earned reputation for being crap, they have not shaken off that image yet. Also they have inly three competitive cars the fusion, mustang and 500 with the focus and cv being uncompetitive crap.

 

 

I'm not quite sure that is the problem. Ford had a reputation for screwing toghther the tightest cars in NA up through the 1990's. Believe it or not, the old "Quality is Job One" campaign did work.

 

I talk cars all day long and most folks will say Ford has the best quality of the big 2.5. When asked if they would buy a Ford, the answer is yes! But, only a truck or a Mustang. NOTHING else that Ford offers is of any interest to them. I hear this time & time again.

 

I think the real problem is product.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Hemiman

[SMOKE]

I'm not quite sure that is the problem. Ford had a reputation for screwing toghther the tightest cars in NA up through the 1990's. Believe it or not, the old "Quality is Job One" campaign did work.

 

I talk cars all day long and most folks will say Ford has the best quality of the big 2.5. When asked if would buy a Ford, the answer is yes! But, only a truck or a Mustang. NOTHING else that Ford offers, is of any interest to them. I hear this time & time again.

 

I have to echo those comments.

Among non-industry friends, that is the overwhelming sentiment.

TRUCK or MUSTANG.

[Ron W.]

Believe it or not, the old "Quality is Job One" campaign did work.

 

 

And needs to be brought back

[Noah Harbinger]

And needs to be brought back

 

No, they just need to bring back quality :P

 

But seriously, people won't believe it now. It'll take years of anecdotal evidence before people trust Ford again -- a decade of high scores on JD Powers and Consumer Reports reliability surveys, a decade of "my cousin got a hand-me-down Ford Focus with 150,000 miles and it hasn't had a single problem" stories -- by the time people hear that stuff enough that they're not surprised -- that's what builds a reputation for quality, not ad slogans.

[Traveler]

Take a look on a general use forum like Car & Driver and see the sentiment over there toward Ford automobiles. I feel that Ford needs not only cash back incentives to trade in competitive automobiles but Ford needs to repeat Ford loyalty with cash incentives, free options or better finance rates.

 

Would someone getting ready to trade in their old Altima be interested in a brand new Fusion if they received an addition cash bonus to trade in the Nissan? If you're a loyal Ford buyer, wouldn't you feel more appreciated if they pretty much said, "Since you're trading in that Ford Taurus for a new Five-Hundred instead of buying an Accord or Camry, we're going to give a lower finance rate."

 

IMO, Ford is too passive and needs to be more aggressive in their marketing and sales tactics. Nothing shady or dishonest...but Ford needs to spin the sales pitch to their favor. Have you noticed that Chevy is directly going after Honda Accord with the Impala??

[bravestar]

When people think of Ford cars, they think of Taurus and Crown Victoria not of the new offerings like Fusion and the secret Five Hundred. The car side of business will not improve vastly until all of the old Program Taurus and Fleet Crown Victoria and over priced Town Cars are not on dealers lots at fire sale pricing.

 

The Freestyle is a great vehicle that could use some minor tweaking that no one knows about. They all think it is a minivan...which leads you to the Windstar that was, in the last model years of it, well liked into that joke of a name Freestar and less interior room.

 

I want to see Ford be on the agressive as far as defending great products like the Mustang, F-150 and promote other strong vehicles like the unknown Five Hundred and Freestyle. Saftey and comfort sells and the need to leverage their Volvo heritage, who gives a shit if it doesn't fit in with the Bold Moves campagne. Not every vehicle needs to make a bold statement.

[Ron W.]

No, they just need to bring back quality :P

 

 

Ummmm, thats pretty much what i meant.

[SysEng]

No, they just need to bring back quality :P

 

Umm, NO, quality isn't the only problem. I think Dubya summed it up nicely when he said Detroit has problems 'cuz they aren't selling what people want to buy. FYI, Dubya drives a Mercury GM and has a SD. Warren Buffet, a guy so rich he could buy a new limo daily, drives a'02 TC, Focus buyers await a new Focus after how many years , and the list goes on.

 

A strategy of decontenting, minimal or no updates on mainstream products, and introducing "new products" that no market exists for ( like the 500 ) ar pretty much a formula for trouble. The Fusion is on its way to becoming a huge disaster for Ford. Why? Improper market position. Why didn't they call that and price it as a replacement for the Focus??? At least it would have looked like Ford was still alive to most customers.

 

Meanwhile, the latest grand plan involves redesigning Ford cars to better accomodate fat slobs. Now theres a market image we really want to build on :tease:

[Noah Harbinger]

Umm, NO, quality isn't the only problem. I think Dubya summed it up nicely when he said Detroit has problems 'cuz they aren't selling what people want to buy.

 

First, to correct myself: I and others often misspeak and say Quality when we mean Reliability.

 

Back to my regularly scheduled rants.

 

I know what you're gonna say: An all-new RWD BOF sedan would ignite Ford and bring about a new renaissance of American cars. But guess what: People care a lot more about reliability than about whether a car is rear or front wheel drive, or whether a car is unibody or BOF. When people say "Detroit ain't selling what people want to buy", reliability is #1 on the list of what they're talking about.

 

FYI, Dubya drives a Mercury GM and has a SD. Warren Buffet, a guy so rich he could buy a new limo daily, drives a'02 TC

I can believe Buffet drives one -- he's notoriously cheap, and a used TC is pretty cheap car -- but Dubya's ass probably hasn't seen the driver's seat of a car in a decade. No doubt they drive the armored versions, anyway -- hardly a feature I can order at the dealer (or maybe it is, I dunno).

 

A strategy of decontenting, minimal or no updates on mainstream products, and introducing "new products" that no market exists for ( like the 500 ) ar pretty much a formula for trouble. The Fusion is on its way to becoming a huge disaster for Ford. Why? Improper market position. Why didn't they call that and price it as a replacement for the Focus??? At least it would have looked like Ford was still alive to most customers.

 

The Fusion is running its factory at full speed. Only a Panther Mafia hitman could call that a failure. The 500 -- well, it's paying its own way, and is paving the way to future successes like the MkS and the Fairlane -- and once the reskin comes out with the 3.5L, it'll probably keep the factory humming at a fast enough clip.

 

Meanwhile, the latest grand plan involves redesigning Ford cars to better accomodate fat slobs. Now theres a market image we really want to build on :tease:

 

Heck other than the geriatric crowd, fat people are the only ones buying Panthers retail.

[Traveler]

I think Ford needs:

 

1. New Focus, new Ranger, updated Panthers.

2. Diesel for the F-150 and better fuel efficiency with the gassers

3. 3.5L for the Fusion and Five-Hundred

4. continue plans for the MKS with 3.5/4.4 options

5. better looking crossover vehicles

 

(1). Ford needs a new Focus or suitable replacement and I think a variant of the Mazda3 is the best opportunity. Ford needs a smaller truck than the F-150 but Ranger is too small. I know Ranger lovers like the size of the truck now, but Ford needs an in-between truck with a usable bed and a larger interior with at least a extended cab as an option. The Sport Trac can fill the void for the 4 door as most people want care for a long bed when more interior cargo/passenger room is needed on a vehicle of this size. Panthers should be kept for all the reasons already stated over and over.

 

(2) Ford trucks are still the back bone of the company and they needs more fuel efficiency. Again, Ford needs a smaller mid-size (about the size of the Dakota or Tacoma) to address the need. Expedition can perhaps benefit from the same things the F-150 can. Explorer really is about as good as can be expected for a BOF mid-size SUV. Escape needs updating and refreshening.

 

(3) The 3.5L is needed for the competitiveness in the tough market they are in. Fusion needs a manual tranny. Fusion needs both a economy-minded four cylinder and the 3.5L as option. Five-Hundred needs the 3.5L standard and whatever is coming down the pike for more power...either turbo'ed 3.5 or a 4.4 V8.

 

(4) I think the MKS is a good move for Lincoln. I still do not like the alpha designations but its a good look, solid car...Get this one right the first time, Ford. You bring it out underpowered and problematic, you can keep it on the shelf!

 

(5) What is with this Edge and MKX stuff? These look like blow fish on wheels? Am I the only one that doesn't get these things? They look like Ford's own version of the Pacifica which I'm not really sure is needed. You want a look at the best crossover on the market? Look at Infiniti's FX35 and FX45!!!!! Now, those are nice-looking crossovers. Both my wife and I like the looks of them...plus my mother (who is 63) admires them as well. She's asked me several times about them upon seeing one on the road. They are car-like and SUV-like. In fact, I had a wild notion one time that perhaps this would be a great Crown Vic replacement. Crazy...maybe just a passing notion.

 

I'm not really sure who's steering the ship at Ford but when I saw on the news about how they were showing these computer generated images of obese drivers behind the wheel, I couldn't help but smirk and shake my head. People who are fat don't want you telling them they are. Have you ever noticed how many fat people try to squeeze themselves in the smallest possible car they can? Its bad marketing and to publicize it??? There is something wrong with elements of Ford management.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Traveler

[Edstock]

"Look at Infiniti's FX35 and FX45!!!!! Now, those are nice-looking crossovers."

 

 

The back end alone defies description in its achievement of disharmony. Babboon-butt. Too bad, because mechanically, they are very impressive.

[silvrsvt]

IMO, Ford is too passive and needs to be more aggressive in their marketing and sales tactics. Nothing shady or dishonest...but Ford needs to spin the sales pitch to their favor. Have you noticed that Chevy is directly going after Honda Accord with the Impala??

 

LOL the Impala is a D sized car...WTF

 

Thats as good as compairing the Equinox with the RX300 :lol:

 

Please try again Chevy

[mesg]

There`s an old saying....A satisfied customer will tell any one who asks....

An UNHAPPY customer will tell anyone who will listen!!!!!!!!!! As an ex-owner of more than 30 new ford vehicles, we became the later after having thie misfortune of owning 3 superduty 6.0 LEMON`S FROM HELL.

It was not so much as the truck had and are still having grievous mechanical and sensor failures, but that when you dish out that much coin for a supposedly superior product and a HIGH end luxury truck, you should not have to nor expect to leave that product in a repair shop for 70 + days in the first 8 months of ownership!!!! As the Company is well aware of the problems, and has been working with I.H. to correct them, little if anything has been done to appease the masses of unahppy fleet and retail customers stuck with these problem vehicles. These truck are advertised as being tough, and built for work!!! tough work. But when in less than 20k kms, over $30.000.00 cdn in warranty work is required. it does leave a lasting impression on folks. And yes word of this DOES TRAVEL!!!! Not with standing the responses from the customer non-service departments don`t exactly elicit any form of customer loyalty. With cases like this, the F>M>C> should maybe??? (naw).... step back and say...hmmmm, how?? would we stem the loss of customers? and maybe?? attempt ( if at all possible) , to win back a few of the thousands?? tens?? hundreds??? we have mis-led and pissed off in the past few years.? At this point, i was looking for a few older threads about the diesel problems, but alas...they seemed to have dis-appearred. New and exciting products, that actually have the features/ TORQUE and HORSEPOWER that are advertised and are printed in the sales brouchures , give anywhere close to the fuel rating that is on the window sticker (in real world conditions), built to NOT have to returned to the dealer for ANYTHING!!! other than regularly scheduled maintenace!!!! in the first 30-36 months!!(which is asking alot..) .

 

It may take an act of god.. but to design and build vehicles and trucks too.. without letting the numbers crunchers at the design... for the most part they pare down the unit being built to see where they can save 10 cents here and there..to keep the profit line high enough to justify the share holder equity in the product line. Not with the buying public. Who------ if they don`t like what they see, will shop elsewhere for their hard earned after tax dollar.. vehicle purchase. ( As we Have). ( and yes.. I do work--for now--at Ford).

 

The small things, like eliminating footwell lighting, glove box lights, lighted key forbs, cigarette lighters, inner wheel well linings, sound deading layers,( under hood and firewall/flooring) illuminated vanity mirrors, double or sliding sun visors, adding mp3 capability to the (should be standard!), premium sound systems.. hint hint!! When you are shopping for a high end luxury car/suv/truck..or even the most basic Focus, these few items.. better interior /underhood /trunk lighting, should be standard with a Ford product. hmmm some of them were standard at one time..but saved the company a few dollars here and there..but..WHAT THE HECK>> NO ONE WILL NOTICE THEM GONE..

 

 

Add the strengtheng to the body and door systems, so that when you close your door or hood, the sheet metal doesn`t flap in the breeze for 30 seconds after you close it. The site of a door skin reflecting light off it`s orange peeled paint for 30 or more seconds doesn`t give one the feeling of true strength to a 4 x 4 pickup as being rugged.

 

 

HERE~S A BIG ONE!!!!! when a customer oreders a $65.000.00 truck, or a $75.000.00 excursion, and orders genuine leather seat coverings, (as shown in the brochures) GIVE THEM GENUINE LEATHER SEATING SURFACES), not the PLEATHER A>K>A VINYL. W>T>F> ?????? Talk about driving customers with cash away in droves.!!

 

 

I could go on and on.. but i hope that the fine folks from the F>M>C> who actually read these forums do step back and look at this company from a consumers point of view and blend that with an EXPANDED long term view of the company and its current and future pruduct line, ( ahem diesels come to mind here). Don`tfreakin pare down the units in quality, or options. let the vendors who supply the parts build them to BETTER specs!!!! at reasonably prices. Warranty costs will and ARE bank-rupting this company! Look back at when the cars where actually selling, and what has been eliminated/ traded off for increased technology in the newer styled units, and maybe??? add the small things back into the retail cars, trucks.(like your comepetitors have as standard).

[Paul Selby]

I think the real problem is product.

 

I agree Hemiman. I must add that poor dealer service is another big problem. It has turned many people I know away from Ford. Many dealers seem unable to fix problems or even admit there is a problem. Calling the Ford Customer Service Center is a total waste of time. Ford needs quality service after the sale.

[sept68]

I agree Hemiman. I must add that poor dealer service is another big problem. It has turned many people I know away from Ford. Many dealers seem unable to fix problems or even admit there is a problem. Calling the Ford Customer Service Center is a total waste of time. Ford needs quality service after the sale.

 

 

We need to keep the vehicle out of the shop in the first place. Its a money grab. Dealers take advangtage of warranty for thier own profit. Its not their fault we are making junk. High priced junk at that. The domestics need to get back to true craftsmenship.

[DCK]

I'm not quite sure that is the problem. Ford had a reputation for screwing toghther the tightest cars in NA up through the 1990's. Believe it or not, the old "Quality is Job One" campaign did work.

 

I talk cars all day long and most folks will say Ford has the best quality of the big 2.5. When asked if they would buy a Ford, the answer is yes! But, only a truck or a Mustang. NOTHING else that Ford offers is of any interest to them. I hear this time & time again.

 

I think the real problem is product.

People my age atg school, work and also people at non-automotive forums i visit simply say Ford sucks. Can you blame them? It has been hammered down their throats all growing up through the media, it isn't case yet the perception is about as strong as toyota's quality perception.

[ilovemoney]

nd don't you love when Bill Ford et al says we were taken off guard by higher gas prices! BSx 10

[Edgey]

Ford is not having a hard time selling cars to people, they are just not selling many cars to fleet buyers anymore. In reality, their retail customers have increased substantially in recent times even if their overall sales are lagging.

 

Ford lacks positive buzz and part of that is poor marketing of their new products. Ford design is also extremely lackluster and un-emotional so there is a sense of disappointment and dispassion in everything Ford is doing. It's all very cold, calm, and calculating...no excitement...no big change...just a slow and systmatic and nearly unnoticeable rennovation.

 

Ford's turn around strategy has probably failed to win the public relations war, but that's probably going to happen until they start earning money and sales start increasing. Everything before and until that point is too academic for the media to treat positively.

Edited August 20, 2006 by Edgey

[RichardJensen]

The small things, like eliminating footwell lighting, glove box lights, lighted key forbs, cigarette lighters, inner wheel well linings, sound deading layers,( under hood and firewall/flooring) illuminated vanity mirrors, double or sliding sun visors, adding mp3 capability to the (should be standard!), premium sound systems.. hint hint!! When you are shopping for a high end luxury car/suv/truck..or even the most basic Focus, these few items.. better interior /underhood /trunk lighting, should be standard with a Ford product. hmmm some of them were standard at one time..but saved the company a few dollars here and there..but..WHAT THE HECK>> NO ONE WILL NOTICE THEM GONE..

Add the strengtheng to the body and door systems, so that when you close your door or hood, the sheet metal doesn`t flap in the breeze for 30 seconds after you close it. The site of a door skin reflecting light off it`s orange peeled paint for 30 or more seconds doesn`t give one the feeling of true strength to a 4 x 4 pickup as being rugged.

1) As near as I've heard from anyone, the Powerstroke problems were design flaws, not chepo parts.

 

2) I don't think I've ever owned a Ford with a lighted key-fob, and would not count the absence of one as any kind of decontenting. Ford's trucks and cars actually have more sound deadening than before (just not where you can see it--e.g. the stuffing that used to be stuck to the hood & trunk). Fords have gotten quieter over the last decade, not noisier, this is not because sound deadening has been taken out.

 

3) I believe for this year every Ford except the fleet queens comes with MP3 capable CD players, and over half have the audio input jack. Early next year, the TripTunes--which offers full control of an iPod--will be a dealer add for every Ford (except the fleet queens), and this is only going to be available on mainstream Ford and GM products.

 

4) I don't know what you're talking about with the 'strengthening body and door systems' either.

 

Finally, so Ford had the PS problems. We all know it. The only question is, 'What could Ford possibly do to make things right?', if you don't have an answer, then why should Ford even bother with you, regardless of how many trucks you've bought. If you can't be appeased, should Ford spend thousands of dollars trying to win you back? This is the crux with the Powerstroke issue: What more could Ford have done? By your account you went through THREE trucks. What more could Ford do? If you're pissed, you're pissed. Nothing Ford can do about that. It's spilled milk. It's history. The only thing you can do is make sure it doesn't happen again.

[RangeRover]

nd don't you love when Bill Ford et al says we were taken off guard by higher gas prices! BSx 10

 

The nerve of them not foreseeing Oil refineries shutting down for non-routine repairs and war between Lebanon and Israel. I mean who did not see that coming. The fact is that Trucks were selling well up until June. All trends showed that full sized pickup owners had tremendous resilience to gas prices.

 

The truth of the matter is that people are now realizing that these prices are here to stay. Constant unrest in the middle east without stopping...constant refinery problems....This is a shift that has been accelerated by current events. You don't foresee current events, you foresee trends and up until June the trend looked a lot more positive.

[SysEng]

The only thing you can do is make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

 

Correct me here, but does seem THATS EXACTLY what he did.

 

And that is precisely the problem.

 

 

Back to my regularly scheduled rants.

 

I know what you're gonna say: An all-new RWD BOF sedan would ignite Ford and bring about a new renaissance of American cars.

 

 

Umm, NO.... the issue is constant quality improvement, which means working up your existing products and evolving them to current market trends. NOT taking a flier on something like the 500/Fusion unless its your specific intent to price and call them replacements for the Taurus/Focus. Which by the way, is the modern definition of quality. And your right, that does include reliability.

 

And therein lies Fords curent problems. The definition of "quality" is way too narrow,

 

 

 

 

I mean who did not see that coming. The fact is that Trucks were selling well up until June. All trends showed that full sized pickup owners had tremendous resilience to gas prices.

 

The truth of the matter is that people are now realizing that these prices are here to stay.

 

Actually, many people knew the market trend to higher commodity prices had started back in 2000 :shrug: . For all the todo about Fords presumable over exposure to their "bean counters", these "bean counters" must be either truly incompetent not to know what a mere SysEng knew about the markets , or maybe they are less listened to that we think.

[DCK]

The nerve of them not foreseeing Oil refineries shutting down for non-routine repairs and war between Lebanon and Israel. I mean who did not see that coming. The fact is that Trucks were selling well up until June. All trends showed that full sized pickup owners had tremendous resilience to gas prices.

 

The truth of the matter is that people are now realizing that these prices are here to stay. Constant unrest in the middle east without stopping...constant refinery problems....This is a shift that has been accelerated by current events. You don't foresee current events, you foresee trends and up until June the trend looked a lot more positive.

Bullshit, and you know it 100%. All these excuses people make. Gas prices started rising heavily 4 years ago so don't say it was unforseen. Ford dropped the ball big time and a bunch of excuses won't fix the problem especiallhy when every other manufacturer(other than DCX) knew the problem years ago and now have products to combat the issue, whether it be from turcks that jumped greatly ikn fuel economy or the introduction of b-segment cars. Right now Ford has niether. Your first paragraph is such propaganda it is sickning. The market doesn't' care about ford's ability to conjure up excuse after excuse like this is a day care they care about products and ford has done a down right terrible job of giving the people what they want. The fusion and edge are their first decent offerings for the market.