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Ford 2015 April sales down 1%

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profit follows sales if your sales are Falling you profits will not be far behind. Niche product command a higher price than conventional mainstream products like the Fusion and the focus.

 

Toyota and Lexus sell 32 different Vehicles in the US. Ford Sells 19 different Vehicles in the US. Which company is more profitable? Toyota!

 

Explain how this works, they sell a wider variety of production from in low,medium and high volumes and are less dependent on Trucks than ford yet they are more profitable than Ford.

 

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

Study that phrase. Learn it, love it, live it! Once you figure that out, then maybe we can begin to have intelligent conversations in this area. Until then, refrain from posting drivel like this.

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Correlation does not equal causation.

 

Study that phrase. Learn it, love it, live it! Once you figure that out, then maybe we can begin to have intelligent conversations in this area. Until then, refrain from posting drivel like this.

 

Drivel?

 

Explain how Toyota does what Dean, Richard and Nick say ford shouldn't do and Toyota is more profitable than Ford? At the current rate ford could end up the #3 automaker in the US behind GM and Toyota this year.

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Drivel?

 

Explain how Toyota does what Dean, Richard and Nick say ford shouldn't do and Toyota is more profitable than Ford? At the current rate ford could end up the #3 automaker in the US behind GM and Toyota this year.

 

This is the drivel that you spewed: Brand X makes more models. Brand X makes more profit. Therefore, making more models makes you more profitable.

 

Because, you know, everything else is exactly the same across both companies. The number of models is the only difference between the two companies.

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Correlation does not equal causation.

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Drivel?

 

Explain how Toyota does what Dean, Richard and Nick say ford shouldn't do and Toyota is more profitable than Ford? At the current rate ford could end up the #3 automaker in the US behind GM and Toyota this year.

 

Ford is already number 3. Toyota+Subaru passed Ford last year.

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Drivel?

 

Explain how Toyota does what Dean, Richard and Nick say ford shouldn't do and Toyota is more profitable than Ford? At the current rate ford could end up the #3 automaker in the US behind GM and Toyota this year.

 

 

I'll take that one. I've owned five Toyota products over the years and three within the last three years and while they are good products they are not nearly as good as the hype they get. They are reliable and well built but they are also overpriced for the feature content you get by comparison to other brands such as Ford or GM or Hyundai. They can get away with charging more money for less car because a lot of people believe in the hype or believe in the perception that Toyota has worked hard to cultivate that their cars are just naturally better. In some respects it may be true but for the most part their cars really aren't any better from a quality and longevity point as anything Ford or other brands make. Now as far as Ford being 3rd place behind GM and Toyota, . . . so what. Is there some rule that says only the top two car manufacturers will stay in business and all others will go out of business? Will Ford suddenly file bankruptcy because they are 3rd place? Will Ford's employees suffer a lower standard of living? Obviously the answer is no to all of these. I personally couldn't care less if Ford is 1st or 3rd and aside from the tiny fraction of a percent of people on these forums that pay attention to such statistics neither could the rest of the world.

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Market share, profit per unit, and overall profits are all important. Of the three profit per unit can be the most variable in measuring success since you might want to just break even on entry level vehicles to get younger people into your brand. Honda willingly loses money on selling the Japanese made Fit (currency exchange, etc.) in our market to do just this. History shows us a lot of truth to the business axiom that if you aren't growing you are dying. History also shows us that if you invest too much in chasing unprofitable volume you die, or you are run for a while by a government car czar. You can slowly become unpalatably boring and wither away by chasing only the highest volume niches while minimizing investment. This worked for Mulally and was right for the time, but I worry about staying too rigid for too long with the strategy. Toyota seems to be able to do well with market share and profits, year after year. We argue about the merits of one verse the other.

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1 - how old is the Camry platform?

 

2 - how many vehicles did Ford and Toyota sell in Japan?

 

Those are the only clues you need.

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"New Explorer will not sell, it's not BOF/V8" :drop: "The D3 is a flop, just cancel all of it"

 

:happy feet: Ford is laughing on the way to the bank, getting it's money's worth from the 'flop D3 platform'. :headspin:

Explorer is doing very well, but I'm starting to wonder if building the Flex is still worth it at this point. I know it has a little "fan club" but when Explorer is selling 16,000+ units in a month and the Flex is at 1,600+ it doesn't seem to make much sense. I'm guessing if the Flex wasn't offered a good chunk of those 1,600 would end up buying an Explorer anyhow. I'm not even going to comment on the MKT because I don't see how that vehicle has a future in the new Lincoln anyhow.

 

Is there going to be a 2015 Flex and MKT? Just curious how long they will keep building them at this point.

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There is not much savings to kill them now and they do have very high ATPs. It's not like you can close a plant or a shift. I'd be very surprised if they get renewed on the new platform.

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Market share, profit per unit, and overall profits are all important. Of the three profit per unit can be the most variable in measuring success since you might want to just break even on entry level vehicles to get younger people into your brand. Honda willingly loses money on selling the Japanese made Fit (currency exchange, etc.) in our market to do just this. History shows us a lot of truth to the business axiom that if you aren't growing you are dying. History also shows us that if you invest too much in chasing unprofitable volume you die, or you are run for a while by a government car czar. You can slowly become unpalatably boring and wither away by chasing only the highest volume niches while minimizing investment. This worked for Mulally and was right for the time, but I worry about staying too rigid for too long with the strategy. Toyota seems to be able to do well with market share and profits, year after year. We argue about the merits of one verse the other.

I've pointed this out in another thread about domestics in general not present in niche markets while the foreign competition go completely unchallenged and how (at least in Lincoln's case) can use a high -volume platform to address this.

 

I get flack for even suggesting this from non-Ford employees (like i care....) about "this can't be done" and "F-series like profits" . Ford and the other domestics need to increase the got-to-Have-it factor in niche segments to protect the markshare and it can be done at profit.

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Or is it better to fill out volume products and make them even more desirable..... Ford has 23 product launches "this year" and 14 of them are in North America.

Edited by jpd80

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Or is it better to fill out volume products and make them even more desirable..... Ford has 23 product launches "this year" and 14 of them are in North America.

You need to make your mainstream products more attractive AND develop niche products that are better able to grow volume. Mainstream models are treat like a commodity where price can be used to prop up weak models and depress the prices of entire segments.

 

Toyota does it, even GM does it. Why can't Ford.

 

Product diversity is important in a competitive market as a hedge against price wars.

 

Luxury brands are attractive because those buyer are less sensitive to price and are less likely to buy a car based on price alone, with consistent margins and product diversity that makes the, more adaptable to a global market.

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Or is it better to fill out volume products and make them even more desirable..... Ford has 23 product launches "this year" and 14 of them are in North America.

Even with that you're still at square one. Lexus and Acura are now offering sporty options despite borefest volume models.

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Correlation does not equal causation.

I agree,Correlation does not equal causation, but why is Toyota more profitable than ford with more niche models?

 

1 - how old is the Camry platform?

 

2 - how many vehicles did Ford and Toyota sell in Japan?

 

Those are the only clues you need.

?

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Even with that you're still at square one. Lexus and Acura are now offering sporty options despite borefest volume models.

None of which dds that much volume.

look across most of the Luxury Marques and youll find that only about four models make all the volume,

the rest are just high end fillers.

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Not a great month - exactly!

Don't know how anyone can spin the fact that industry was up about 9% overall but Ford was down 1% as a "good" month.

And again, the real competition; Toyota +13%, Nissan +18% - we all know that GM is propped up and Fiat/Chrysler's only growth is Trucks and Jeeps.

 

I am not saying "doomsday" or "end of the world" I am simply saying what is true - substantial industry growth is going to the competition and will need to be addressed.

 

No, you have to look at how the competitors performed last April compared to how Ford performed last April. And for the 2959838948934th time, what is this obsession with sales in absolute terms? WHO CARES what Ford did this April compared to last April relative to the competitors? I know others have said they don't want to hear it, but it's profit, profit, profit. Some people don't get it and I guess that's ok, but...

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None of which dds that much volume.

look across most of the Luxury Marques and youll find that only about four models make all the volume,

the rest are just high end fillers.

That is the point I feel like ford only wants the volume end of the market, and ignores low and medium volume segments. It is those high end fillers that build that incremental volume for the brand. Look at Lexus lots of medium volume global products but anchored by a few high volume products. The concept of shared architectures spawning a wide variety of products is what ford is supposed to be doing but every platform from D3 to today has far fewer products on them than their comparable platform at Toyota or even GM.

 

They must get better at developing and producing medium volume products.

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That is the point I feel like ford only wants the volume end of the market, and ignores low and medium volume segments. It is those high end fillers that build that incremental volume for the brand. Look at Lexus lots of medium volume global products but anchored by a few high volume products. The concept of shared architectures spawning a wide variety of products is what ford is supposed to be doing but every platform from D3 to today has far fewer products on them than their comparable platform at Toyota or even GM.

 

They must get better at developing and producing medium volume products.

Be patient a little while longer, I have the feeling that we're on the cusp of change where Ford starts to actualize change with Lincoln

via MKC MKX and MKZ for a start, it's almost like a that gun shy investment resistance left over from the PAG days is starting to lift.

 

I'm betting that Fields will be a different leader, where Mulally was the great reformer- consolidator, Fields looms large as the CEO who

will use that platform as a springboard to be more expansive - Fields knows that ther are valuable/lucrative niches to be explored but

he also need to add more zest to main products too...

Edited by jpd80

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Fields knows that ther are valuable/lucrative niches to be explored but

he also need to add more zest to main products too...

Zest meaning?

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Zest meaning?

Energy, enthusiasm, excitement.

Making the owner feel like the car has been designed just for them, maybe giving the cars a more premium feel?

 

Sight, touch- feel, sensation, ambiance.

Edited by jpd80

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I have no doubt Ford will bring at least Escort and Ecosport to the Amercian lineup. There is a short article in the print edition of Automotive News this week illustrating how Alan hinted at Escort. I have always recognized that when Alan hints, it is in fact, factual.

 

The main thing to consider is Ford is currently building markets around the world: India; China; Africa. Rebuilding Europe. Rebuilding Lincoln. This takes time and it takes resources. All things can't be done overnight.

 

Also;

 

Mark Fields -

-Reinforcing Fords product passion:

 

"This is a business about product, and we will never forget that as a company. And that thats why it is so important our product pipeline remains absolutely full. But, we want to make sure our customers experience our products or services that they have a smile on their face every time they go through Ford Motor Co. This product passion is so important for us because its what attracts so many of us to the business to begin with, and these days thats a key differentiator, so we will maintain and actually accelerate that product passion as we go forward."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140502/OEM02/140509955/fords-product-pipeline-will-remain-full-fields-says

Edited by AlRozzi

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I'm guessing if the Flex wasn't offered a good chunk of those 1,600 would end up buying an Explorer anyhow. I'm not even going to comment on the MKT because I don't see how that vehicle has a future in the new Lincoln anyhow.

As akirby points out - killing the Flex wouldn't really save much. It's not like they can switch to building the explorer at OAC for free. I waited to see the Explorer before I got my Flex. Were the Flex not an option, I wouldn't have bought the Explorer. That said, I would be disappointed in Ford if they continue the Flex beyond it's current platform. I fully expect it to die with D4.

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Toyota or even GM.

 

Okay, so which company should Ford emulate?

 

The one with a protectionist home market or the one that is less profitable?

 

Should Ford imitate the company that has papered over significant flaws with its highest volume product in this market by throwing money at it, or the company that has papered over significant flaws with its highest volume product in this market by throwing money at it.

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And I remember when Ford invested heavily in niche products like the DEW98 vehicles (T-Bird, LS, S-type), and Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin----those were the good ol' days. Back when Ford was profitable, and their business was sustainable. Unlike today, when they're investing all this money in the Fusion and the F150, which are, like, totally boring.

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