Why Ford can't do what Carroll Shelby can.

[wescoent]

I brought up this idea shortly before this new episode of Bold Moves came out. Obviously, Ford is having issues getting performance cars on the street, be it from complexity, engineering shortcomings, or just from a lack of willpower from executives. So now, Shelby American is getting an order to build 1,000 or so Ford Mustang Shelby GT's, with stock parts from the Ford Racing bin, and selling them through Ford dealers with a full warranty. That's damned cool if you ask me.

 

Now, what they need to do, is start farming out other models to Shelby, specifically, the Ford Focus. Much of the hype surrounding the hottest small cars today is from their performance variants. Saleen built a version of the Focus not too long ago, and Shelby recently expressed an interest in hopping up a small car.

 

I also agree with an idea I heard here that SVT needs its own facility to build these things in. If its such a pain in the ass to put these cars on the assembly line, just ship out completed and tagged models to an SVT facility somwhere in the Michigan area where final assembly will take place, and the extra parts will be sent back to the original point of assembly. We'll say this facility will be able to turn out 10,000 vehicles per year, and since they'll all be hand-built, very flexible. Each model year with have 4 SVT models, and they'll alternate year after year. That way, every Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln car will get an SVT model every 3 years or so, and all using standard SVT engines, like maybe a hotted-up 3.5L V6 with 300hp, or a twin-turbo model with 360hp.

 

What I've noticed with a lot of hi-po models, is that they tend to sell well their first year, and then sales will slack off after everyone gets one in the initial rush. If they build one SVT model every 3 years for each individual car line, then demand will always be high, and no rebates will be needed.

[NickF1011]

I brought up this idea shortly before this new episode of Bold Moves came out. Obviously, Ford is having issues getting performance cars on the street, be it from complexity, engineering shortcomings, or just from a lack of willpower from executives. So now, Shelby American is getting an order to build 1,000 or so Ford Mustang Shelby GT's, with stock parts from the Ford Racing bin, and selling them through Ford dealers with a full warranty. That's damned cool if you ask me.

 

Now, what they need to do, is start farming out other models to Shelby, specifically, the Ford Focus. Much of the hype surrounding the hottest small cars today is from their performance variants. Saleen built a version of the Focus not too long ago, and Shelby recently expressed an interest in hopping up a small car.

 

I also agree with an idea I heard here that SVT needs its own facility to build these things in. If its such a pain in the ass to put these cars on the assembly line, just ship out completed and tagged models to an SVT facility somwhere in the Michigan area where final assembly will take place, and the extra parts will be sent back to the original point of assembly. We'll say this facility will be able to turn out 10,000 vehicles per year, and since they'll all be hand-built, very flexible. Each model year with have 4 SVT models, and they'll alternate year after year. That way, every Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln car will get an SVT model every 3 years or so, and all using standard SVT engines, like maybe a hotted-up 3.5L V6 with 300hp, or a twin-turbo model with 360hp.

 

What I've noticed with a lot of hi-po models, is that they tend to sell well their first year, and then sales will slack off after everyone gets one in the initial rush. If they build one SVT model every 3 years for each individual car line, then demand will always be high, and no rebates will be needed.

 

Not a bad idea, but it better be able to churn out more than 10K units a year. Heck, Ford's planning 9000 GT500's a year alone. :shrug:

 

I'm not so sure they need to alternate the models so much either. Back when they had the Lightning and Cobra, things seemed pretty good for SVT. Perhaps adding a Focus and Fusion to the lineup would be more than enough. I'd rather see some model sustainability instead of erratic variety for the sake of erratic variety.

[silvrsvt]

Perhaps adding a Focus and Fusion to the lineup would be more than enough. I'd rather see some model sustainability instead of erratic variety for the sake of erratic variety.

 

I dunno about that...when the SVT Focus came out, I remember Ford throwing out a figure of 12K per year sale of them, when in fact from 2002-2004 they only sold a total of 14K over that period of time. I'm not sure what the sales numbers where on the SVT Contour, but I'll assume they weren't great either.

 

As someone pointed out before and quite possibily this was one of the SVT Foci problems was Ford was trying to sell a limilted production/dealership car that wasn't anything really super special or worth the SVT name, since SVT mission detracted what the typical Focus buyer would buy...they would have been far better off calling it GT or something and selling along side other Focus at all the dealerships, instead of making the car so exculsive at first. The Mustang has a hertiage behind it and its a "performance car" and well with the Lightning..it had a History and I'm sure out of 800-900K F-series buyers, Ford can find 10K of them that would pay extra for a performance model. I have to admit the only reason I got an SVT Focus was because of the SVT name and that Ford quit making the SVT Contour too. Unfortinatly for me I winded up buying total POS that I was lucky to keep running for 4 years before dumping it.

 

Make performance verison of the Focus and Fusion, but don't lump them in with SVT, since that seems like it would casue more damage then good for their brands...

[RichardJensen]

I'm just trying to think here.....who is building the GT500? Salleen? Shelby?....must be Roush. I guess there must not be any special parts on this car... I still say it's BS

GT 500 is two years in planning. Specs on it were known a year ago.

[NickF1011]

I dunno about that...when the SVT Focus came out, I remember Ford throwing out a figure of 12K per year sale of them, when in fact from 2002-2004 they only sold a total of 14K over that period of time. I'm not sure what the sales numbers where on the SVT Contour, but I'll assume they weren't great either.

 

As someone pointed out before and quite possibily this was one of the SVT Foci problems was Ford was trying to sell a limilted production/dealership car that wasn't anything really super special or worth the SVT name, since SVT mission detracted what the typical Focus buyer would buy...they would have been far better off calling it GT or something and selling along side other Focus at all the dealerships, instead of making the car so exculsive at first. The Mustang has a hertiage behind it and its a "performance car" and well with the Lightning..it had a History and I'm sure out of 800-900K F-series buyers, Ford can find 10K of them that would pay extra for a performance model. I have to admit the only reason I got an SVT Focus was because of the SVT name and that Ford quit making the SVT Contour too. Unfortinatly for me I winded up buying total POS that I was lucky to keep running for 4 years before dumping it.

 

Make performance verison of the Focus and Fusion, but don't lump them in with SVT, since that seems like it would casue more damage then good for their brands...

 

Well, the problems with the SVT Focus and Contour was that they were decent, but not great compared to their base stablemates, whereas the Cobra and Lightning were truly a big step up. Had the Focus and Contours been engineered to a higher standard like the Cobra and Lightning, their takes would have been much greater.

 

So it's not really that the market for such cars is too small, it's that the products Ford entered into that market weren't so outstanding.

[Guest Sixcav]

Additionally the GT500 is pretty much off the shelf parts. Even the parts that were developed for it are now just off the shelf parts from SVT. There wasn't a major rework to create the GT500. It's just a Mustang with a different motor, tranny, suspension parts and a nosecap. I'm not sure about the rear axle gearing, could be stock, but I'm not sure on that. But don't take my word for it. You can watch the very first GT500 get its motor put in at the link. I think it's a lot more educational than anything you'll learn on this thread thus far about the issue.

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/07/18/for...t500-the-build/

[RichardJensen]

Additionally the GT500 is pretty much off the shelf parts. Even the parts that were developed for it are now just off the shelf parts from SVT. There wasn't a major rework to create the GT500. It's just a Mustang with a different motor, tranny, suspension parts and a nosecap. I'm not sure about the rear axle gearing, could be stock, but I'm not sure on that. But don't take my word for it. You can watch the very first GT500 get its motor put in at the link. I think it's a lot more educational than anything you'll learn on this thread thus far about the issue.

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/07/18/for...t500-the-build/

The Shelby GT is even more parts-bin than the GT 500.

[silvrsvt]

Well, the problems with the SVT Focus and Contour was that they were decent, but not great compared to their base stablemates, whereas the Cobra and Lightning were truly a big step up. Had the Focus and Contours been engineered to a higher standard like the Cobra and Lightning, their takes would have been much greater.

 

I dunno, I know both products won a lot of praise from the automotive press when they came out. The point with the Focus is that it was poorly marketed and the SVT motto of exclusivity and most SVT dealers being assholes when selling product, kept younger people (who the primary market would be for this car) away. Not to mention the ADM's that popped up on them at First too!

[Guest Sixcav]

The Shelby GT is even more parts-bin than the GT 500.

 

It's purely parts bin with the exception of the aftermarket hood I believe. Not 100% sure on that. But no doubt the Shelby GT is a parts bin car with a fancy sticker kit. Nothing your average owner couldn't do themselves with their own Mustang GT.

[NickF1011]

It's purely parts bin with the exception of the aftermarket hood I believe. Not 100% sure on that. But no doubt the Shelby GT is a parts bin car with a fancy sticker kit. Nothing your average owner couldn't do themselves with their own Mustang GT.

 

But then it wouldn't really be a SHELBY and nobody would make a stupidest remake of a stupider remake of a stupid movie about stealing one!!

[retro-man]

Well, the problems with the SVT Focus and Contour was that they were decent, but not great compared to their base stablemates, whereas the Cobra and Lightning were truly a big step up. Had the Focus and Contours been engineered to a higher standard like the Cobra and Lightning, their takes would have been much greater.

 

So it's not really that the market for such cars is too small, it's that the products Ford entered into that market weren't so outstanding.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you never had the experience of driving an SVT Contour.

[NickF1011]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you never had the experience of driving an SVT Contour.

 

I've driven a great many SVT Contours. While it was a pretty good driver's car, it still had the same shortcomings as the rest of the Contour lineup - shoddy fit & finish, miniscule back seat, and not-so-super reliability.

 

If a vehicle isn't good enough in base trim to garner decent reviews, I don't really think an SVT version should even be considered. The term "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind. :pig:

[g48150]

Allright, I'll end this right now, th reason Ford can't do what Carroll Shelby can, balls. Pure and simple.

[Guest Sixcav]

Allright, I'll end this right now, th reason Ford can't do what Carroll Shelby can, balls. Pure and simple.

 

Oh horseshit. Shelby just happened to be in the right place at the right time. In 1960 he had to quit racing because of heart problems. He decided then that he wanted to introduce a small nimble european car to the American market that was powered by American powertrains. It wasn't the first time this idea had been tried in the US either. Shelby just happen to contact AC cars who just happened to be looking for such an opportunity. An AC in point of fact is really just based off an MG as most of already know. But none of what Carroll Shelby did would have gone anywhere if Ford had not provided him with the then lightweight 260 ci motor to put in the early versions of the car. You see at the time Ford, yes the ball lacking Ford, was interested in attracting younger buyers and the sporty AC car fit their plans perfectly. None of what Shelby did would have gone anywhere if Ford had not backed him, given him motors and AC the cars. The rest is history. Now rest assured, if Ford can get behind something like that back then, they can do it now.

[Edstock]

"An AC in point of fact is really just based off an MG as most of already know."

 

No. The vehicles have nothing in common. Zip. Nada. Prior to the advent of the Cobra, IIRC, the common engine in the AC 2-seater was a Bristol I-6 of around 2-3 liters.

 

Wikipedia has a history.

[g48150]

Oh horseshit. Shelby just happened to be in the right place at the right time. In 1960 he had to quit racing because of heart problems. He decided then that he wanted to introduce a small nimble european car to the American market that was powered by American powertrains. It wasn't the first time this idea had been tried in the US either. Shelby just happen to contact AC cars who just happened to be looking for such an opportunity. An AC in point of fact is really just based off an MG as most of already know. But none of what Carroll Shelby did would have gone anywhere if Ford had not provided him with the then lightweight 260 ci motor to put in the early versions of the car. You see at the time Ford, yes the ball lacking Ford, was interested in attracting younger buyers and the sporty AC car fit their plans perfectly. None of what Shelby did would have gone anywhere if Ford had not backed him, given him motors and AC the cars. The rest is history. Now rest assured, if Ford can get behind something like that back then, they can do it now.

 

 

If Ford even had the closest inkling of balls, yes balls, they wouldn't be where they are today, history is a wonderful thing yes, but they dug the hole, THROUGH history.

 

I'll say it again, this conversation is over, one word, balls.

 

Ford's lack of balls.

[Slithering_Joe]

Sounds like Ford needs to hire some new engineers and can the ones holding up production.