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Why Ford can't do what Carroll Shelby can.


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I don't mean to be negative in any way, but have you even seen the way engineers try to place simple components or updates on the assembly line just for a model change over?

From my veiw most of them appear clueless. most of the time the person in charge doesn't even have an idea or clue as to why things don't work out so easy. everything they do is based off of a modapht program. All they seem to know is where the part goes, not How or in What sequence it should go or be applied.

 

No one seems to troubleshoot anything either. As if everything should go perfect with nothing braking or coming loose. You should see how they do trial runs of new components at our plant. they don't let the operators put the parts on, ( therefore getting an idea of how things look/go )they just let some person that has nothing to do with assembly yet along belong to the department or team try to place the parts on.

I can go on and on with the way things happen in my plant and how disorganized everything and everyone is. But that's another Topic.

 

This is why I feel that it's best for Ford to outsource these types of assembly to Carrol Shelby and Others.

Edited by J2D
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I agree with the blog, particularly because Ford NEEDS the ability to create low-volume niche models constantly to support the long periods between refreshes and updates on existing models. The Shelby and upcoming BOSS Mustangs are great examples of keeping something going (as the Adrenalin should be, dammit).

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Once upon a time (1950s-60s) cars could be optioned in so many different ways that no two were identical. That may have been nice for consumers to have plenty of options but it was no way to run a production line. The Japanese limited the number of options to specific packages limited color and interior choices and combinations and simplified the production. This had a two fold benefit, first, less parts to carry in inventory and second simplified build led to better quality. I remember buying my mom's 1987 Nissan Maxima. There were two interior choices, cloth and leather. Each exterior color had one cloth color and one leather color. All of the cars had power windows, A/C power seats. Package 1 had the sunroof. If you wanted a manual trans you had to get the monochrome paint and rear spoiler.

 

A small outfit like Shelby can crank out 7,000 specialty cars without requiring changes to the line and can actually be more efficient in the long run. SVT's biggest problem was lack of product. While DCX spread SRT across the line, SVT was always limited to a few thousand cars total. It just can't be done efficiently in a modern plant.

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I don't mean to be negative in any way, but have you even seen the way engineers try to place simple components or updates on the assembly line just for a model change over?

From my veiw most of them appear clueless. most of the time the person in charge doesn't even have an idea or clue as to why things don't work out so easy. everything they do is based off of a modapht program. All they seem to know is where the part goes, not How or in What sequence it should go or be applied.

 

I remember years ago, AT&T (Bell Labs) had a program where new engineers would be sent out to the field, working at one of their local phone companies, for a year. They wanted their new engineers to have some first-hand experience of what the people in the field did, before they started to try to design new things and new methods.

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A small outfit like Shelby can crank out 7,000 specialty cars without requiring changes to the line and can actually be more efficient in the long run. SVT's biggest problem was lack of product. While DCX spread SRT across the line, SVT was always limited to a few thousand cars total. It just can't be done efficiently in a modern plant.

 

 

That thing about Shelby's ability to crank out 7,000 specialty cars: I think you should check out Shelby's ability to ooze out significantly fewer than 100 specialty cars a year; namely their continuation series of Cobras. Even given complete bodies mounted on frames provided by Kirkham, they were falling behind on production vs accepted orders, lead times were stretching into years. And the repro Cobra is by no stretch of the imagination a complicated vehicle.

 

It wasn't until they outsourced production of their Cobras to SuperPerformance that the backlog started to come down, a little bit.

 

Has Ford really thought this through? Have they done the due diligence?

Edited by Sizzler
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How hard would it be to mix in the special parts into production?? Really?? All of the lines are set up to accept the parts in particular order of the VIN and its options. All you have to do is put these into the mix. They build GTs, the regular, and how many different interior colors and wheel options and even convertibles. Please. If the engineers cannot handle this, get them the hell out of there.

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I would imagine there are specifical things about the particular pieces canged that would make it difficult...

 

Maybe the new intake does not slide in as well as the regular intake ... maybe the Exhaust needs some special backet, that is different fom production ..

 

The Shelby GT is simple Mustang GT with Ford racing INtake, tune exhaust suspension and then some ...

 

the aftermarket nature of these parts might make them difficult to install in the factory.

 

Igor

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That thing about Shelby's ability to crank out 7,000 specialty cars: I think you should check out Shelby's ability to ooze out significantly fewer than 100 specialty cars a year; namely their continuation series of Cobras. Even given complete bodies mounted on frames provided by Kirkham, they were falling behind on production vs accepted orders, lead times were stretching into years. And the repro Cobra is by no stretch of the imagination a complicated vehicle.

 

It wasn't until they outsourced production of their Cobras to SuperPerformance that the backlog started to come down, a little bit.

 

Has Ford really thought this through? Have they done the due diligence?

There is a huge difference between building an entire car, from the ground up, and bolting on parts-bin items. The alternate side of the blog would be, "Why Shelby can't do what Ford Motor can", and would focus on the incredibly difficult undertaking of building an entire car from scratch.

 

How hard would it be to mix in the special parts into production?? Really?? All of the lines are set up to accept the parts in particular order of the VIN and its options. All you have to do is put these into the mix. They build GTs, the regular, and how many different interior colors and wheel options and even convertibles. Please. If the engineers cannot handle this, get them the hell out of there.

Yeah. And all this stuff is set up well ahead of time. Ford probably has inventory scheduled for delivery at Flat Rock for the next 6-8 months, and production scheduled for that far ahead too.

 

The problem is not WHETHER Ford can do small volume production on an assembly line, but the amount of complexity involved in designing it and scheduling it. Far better to turn the bolting on of custom bits over to someone who can easily accomodate the bolting on of custom bits, than to try and schedule the bolting on of custom bits into production that is already scheduled.

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There is a huge difference between building an entire car, from the ground up, and bolting on parts-bin items. The alternate side of the blog would be, "Why Shelby can't do what Ford Motor can", and would focus on the incredibly difficult undertaking of building an entire car from scratch.

 

Shelby gets COMPLETE, ROLLING, body on frame, on WHEELS from Kirkham.

 

They need to install interior (simple), and wiring (miniscule).

 

NO ENGINE. The ultimate purchaser is responsible for getting an engine/transmission installed.

 

Then paint/finish buff and fluff.

 

How hard is that?

 

Shelby takes (literally) YEARS to do it for each order.

 

Not feeling a lot of faith here...

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Shelby gets COMPLETE, ROLLING, body on frame, on WHEELS from Kirkham.

 

They need to install interior (simple), and wiring (miniscule).

 

NO ENGINE. The ultimate purchaser is responsible for getting an engine/transmission installed.

 

Then paint/finish buff and fluff.

 

How hard is that?

 

Shelby takes (literally) YEARS to do it for each order.

 

Not feeling a lot of faith here...

They have less to do with the Shelby GTs (replace springs, roll bars, PCM, intake, exhaust system, seats--I think). Oh, and they have to glue on some metal plates. I would imagine that the whole process would take less than a few hours per vehicle.

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Still no reason that any of these items cannot be put into the production mix. Any scoops are already being done...any interior has to be put in anyway...and exhaust. How hard is it to put in hood pins??? right!! Air filter assembly would be about the only challenge. That could be designed to use existing holes for mounting. Springs.....they have to be installed anyway....I think it's a bunch of BS they're feeding us. What a put on!!

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Still no reason that any of these items cannot be put into the production mix. Any scoops are already being done...any interior has to be put in anyway...and exhaust. How hard is it to put in hood pins??? right!! Air filter assembly would be about the only challenge. That could be designed to use existing holes for mounting. Springs.....they have to be installed anyway....I think it's a bunch of BS they're feeding us. What a put on!!

Look, it's like I said, it's NOT a question of IF they can route this stuff into the production line, it's a question of HOW LONG it would take to do so.

 

Sheesh.

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This is what Ford is going to do get around the problem of "infrastructure not handling this".

 

Imagine hundreds of these shops doing 1000 - 5000 units per year, all different models of pimped Fords, Lincolns, and Mercurys. Plants run 110% to pump base models to these "little shops" that add the premium price to the car, at $12 an hour. That sound about right?

 

When I worked in the detail body shop, that's what they paid me, and I wasn't union.

 

Hell, Shelby's shop should be the next Pimp My Ride locale.

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hundreds of these shops

There's not enough managerial expertise outside Detroit (regardless of your opinion of what's inside Detroit) to make this work. Not on this scale. Not in this lifetime.

 

I can see Ford partnering with a few shops that will meet fairly strict standards for assembly, and that will 'sign on the line', taking responsibility for the work output.

 

But Ford's management would be ill-advised to put their reputation in the hands of dozens, let alone hundreds, of shops that have their own bottom line to look after as well.

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Look, it's like I said, it's NOT a question of IF they can route this stuff into the production line, it's a question of HOW LONG it would take to do so.

 

Sheesh.

 

 

think of it like this, FOrd ROW is moving towards shorter assembly lines to increase line flexibiliy

 

Ford's lines are too long to allow for simple changes without having to review the entire process.

 

the assembly line is laregest most complex piece of non flexible tooling an auto maker has.

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Guest Sixcav

If you want a truly unique and collectible car don't look to auto manfacturers to make it. They aren't in that business. It's cost prohibitive. Ford is in the business of making cars for the masses, not making one of a kind or even 50 of a kind rare and collectible types. Your best bet for this is to get hooked up with a local hot rod and custom shop and create your own truly unique car. You take these GT-H cars that have been sold to Hertz for instance. They are just factory Mustang GT's with a few aftermarket parts and some off the shelf Ford racing parts and a sticker kit to denote it as a Shelby. It's a net gain of 25 horsepower over a factory GT. Big whoop. But in a couple years the ones that haven't been totaled will be auctioned off to Ford dealers as per the plans right now. Then the dealers will turn around and sell them to the public and of course you will get ripped off if you buy one. But you can say "I got a Shelby". Big deal. It's not like the Shelbys of yesteryear. It's off the shelf parts put on by some guy that works at Shelby and Carroll Shelby himself never had anything to do with your car. Likely by the time they auction off these GT-H cars a standard Mustang GT will be getting 325 horse from the factory anyway so you truly are just paying for a sticker. IMO the best way to make your car truly unique is like I said, get with a local custom shop that can do that and make it a truly unique car. Mass producers just aren't in that business and we shouldn't be looking to them to do it.

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I remember years ago, AT&T (Bell Labs) had a program where new engineers would be sent out to the field, working at one of their local phone companies, for a year. They wanted their new engineers to have some first-hand experience of what the people in the field did, before they started to try to design new things and new methods.

 

You know who else sent their engineers to work in the fields? The Soviet Union... and look what happened to them.

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Once upon a time (1950s-60s) cars could be optioned in so many different ways that no two were identical.

 

Yes, one of many reasons the world was a better place when I was young. (That's the other reason: I was young.) Aren't things supposed to get better? Or are they just supposed to get more "efficient"? And why do so many people fail to distinguish between the two?

 

I remember Leno talking on the tonight show once, how he talked his parents into checking such and such a box when they were ordering their '64 Galaxie (a package that had the triple-carbureted 427 and high performance rear end) - and how hilariously off-guard his dad was the first time he really got on the gas.

 

Latest issue of motor trend had a feature on a guy who ordered his Mustang, because the dealer didn't have one he wanted. He got a GT with no spoiler, with a manual transmission, and in the particular color combination he wanted. Anybody can do this.

 

When I got my T-Bird it was a similar drill: I selected from among the (far too few in the case of the T-Bird) choices and options available, and was assigned an order number. On one of the Thunderbird forums, which I used to frequent before they all went to hell in a handbasket, someone at Wixom told me when a build date and serial number had been assigned to the order number. Someone else told me when it reached the rail-head in Kansas City, and so-on. It was quite an exciting process.

 

Speaking of buzz-phrases from the not-too-distant past, anybody remember the notion of "mass-customization" - the idea that automation, CAD/CAM, and robots, were going to make it possible to machine produce products with infinite variety? Whatever happened to that one? Went the way of the picture-phone and the 32 hour work-week, didn't it?

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I have a '68 Mercury Cougar 7.0 Litre GT-E. For those of you unfamiliar with this particular model, the GT-E was the last model that Ford installed the 427 in at the factory. It was a RPO option package that cost $1300 and included a unique hood scoop, grill, taillights, side trim and two tone paint with the lower body painted argent and the upper body available in 11 different colors. It was available on both the base model and the XR7. It was assembled in Dearborn along with the Mustang which came in coupe, fastback and convertible models equipped with engines ranging from the 200 CID 6 cylinder to the 428 CobraJet. But the 427 could only be had in the GT-E.

 

How many GT-Es with the 427 did Dearborn assemble for 1968? A whopping 357

 

How much is a GT-E worth today? They change hands rarely and mostly privately. The last one sold I'm aware of went for $125,000.

 

You want me to believe that 40 years ago Ford could assemble 357 units of a special model in a plant that could build a couple hundred thousand cars, but today they can't do the same with the Shelby GT in one of their so-called flexible plants. In the name of greater efficiency, they must farm the work out. This puts the "dic" in ridiculous.

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In the name of greater efficiency, they must farm the work out.

That's exactly right.

 

You can rebuild a carb from the 60s yourself with a kit and a LOT of patience.

 

You can't rebuild a fuel injector.

 

Which is more efficient?

 

Point being that efficiency requires complexity, complexity requires detailed planning, detailed planning does not admit going from approval to production in 6 months. You can't 'tweak' the extremely tight scheduling and planning that goes into running a plant like Flat Rock full tilt building Mazda6s and Mustangs.

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That's exactly right.

 

You can rebuild a carb from the 60s yourself with a kit and a LOT of patience.

 

You can't rebuild a fuel injector.

 

Which is more efficient?

 

Point being that efficiency requires complexity, complexity requires detailed planning, detailed planning does not admit going from approval to production in 6 months. You can't 'tweak' the extremely tight scheduling and planning that goes into running a plant like Flat Rock full tilt building Mazda6s and Mustangs.

I'm just trying to think here.....who is building the GT500? Salleen? Shelby?....must be Roush. I guess there must not be any special parts on this car... I still say it's BS

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