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2013 Consumer Reports


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If every car(toaster, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner) was good then CR would be irrelevant. There are very few vehicles today that could be considered "bad" or "to be avoided", but that won't stop CR from publishing a not recommended list and finding faults where they don't really exist.

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If every car(toaster, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner) was good then CR would be irrelevant. There are very few vehicles today that could be considered "bad" or "to be avoided", but that won't stop CR from publishing a not recommended list and finding faults where they don't really exist.

Ya know, Richard might be right here, bad news sells, it's a great way to draw in readers and start opinions stewing.

The more controversial the better, especially if some crowd favorites get a shock review and downgrade.

I gather some Toyotas and even the Caddy XTS took a hit....bit of a surprise, I think it's a great car.

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This can't be right, so many obviously good vehicles form different brands being rated so poorly.

Gone are the days when you used to get really atrocious build quality and tru;y poor reliability

 

The term, "least reliable" seems to get thrown around by CR to cover general displeasure rather than any actual mechanical failure.

 

Even the magazine has admitted that a vehicle that earns a "worse than average" rating today would have scored "better than average" rating 10-15 years ago, if I recall correctly, if the same criteria is used for both time periods.

 

While I'm not going to discount the magazine's survey results completely, the days are over when buying a car rated "worse than average" guaranteed heartache around 50,000 miles. That DID happen all too frequently in the good, I mean, bad old days.

Edited by grbeck
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I gather some Toyotas and even the Caddy XTS took a hit....bit of a surprise, I think it's a great car.

 

The new Impala is better looking, and a better value for the money. If I were buying a Cadillac, I'd go with the new CTS. The XTS has awkward proportions...GM tried to drape Cadillac styling cues over an existing platform, and the entire vehicle looks too tall and ungainly from certain angles. The Lincoln MKS has the same problem.

Edited by grbeck
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The new Impala is better looking, and a better value for the money. If I were buying a Cadillac, I'd go with the new CTS. The XTS has awkward proportions...GM tried to drape Cadillac styling cues over an existing platform, and the entire vehicle looks too tall and ungainly from certain angles. The Lincoln MKS has the same problem.

 

The problem with the XTS and MKS is they're FWD and that presents styling limitations due to front axle position, etc. CTS and ATS don't have the same limitation.

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The term, "least reliable" seems to get thrown around by CR to cover general displeasure rather than any actual mechanical failure.

 

That's because, frankly, there is no such thing as a truly unreliable car anymore. There hasn't been for some time. Consumer magazines still need to find something to gripe about to remain relevant though.

 

Perhaps they should change the wording from "Reliability" to "Annoyability".

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I guess I shouldnt criticize CR too much, their magazine involving car Ratings are good for one thing.....lining the bottom of my Birds cage....

I've read that Consumer Reports uses their own Auto Test Division comprised of a private group of so-called experts to evaluate the vehicles. They do not allow outside industry EXPERTS with their final decisions. The tests coupled with subscriber responses help them arrive at their final decision. Unlike JD Power, who contacts owners of new vehicles based on their ACTUAL purchase (VIN) Consumers Reports base their results on the readers "opinion" and the same individuals testing the vehicles they purchase. So, in fact, its the same guy/gal in the Auto Division evaluating the vehicle and arriving at their 'SUBJECTIVE' opinion. Recently, of the declining 4 million monthly subscribers (CR lost 1 million subscribers in the past 10 yrs) that were sent a questionnaire, only about 10 percent respond. So, if you hate Ford, you can tell them every month that Ford sucks, even though you never owned or drove a Ford. What does that tell you?

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I've read that Consumer Reports uses their own Auto Test Division comprised of a private group of so-called experts to evaluate the vehicles. They do not allow outside industry EXPERTS with their final decisions. The tests coupled with subscriber responses help them arrive at their final decision. Unlike JD Power, who contacts owners of new vehicles based on their ACTUAL purchase (VIN) Consumers Reports base their results on the readers "opinion" and the same individuals testing the vehicles they purchase. So, in fact, its the same guy/gal in the Auto Division evaluating the vehicle and arriving at their 'SUBJECTIVE' opinion. Recently, of the declining 4 million monthly subscribers (CR lost 1 million subscribers in the past 10 yrs) that were sent a questionnaire, only about 10 percent respond. So, if you hate Ford, you can tell them every month that Ford sucks, even though you never owned or drove a Ford. What does that tell you?

 

I believe the subscriber surveys only apply to vehicles you actually own because they're asking about specific problems the owner has had. So they're not asking a Camry owner to rate a Ford. I'm not defending CR - just pointing out an incorrect fact.

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I believe the subscriber surveys only apply to vehicles you actually own because they're asking about specific problems the owner has had. So they're not asking a Camry owner to rate a Ford. I'm not defending CR - just pointing out an incorrect fact.

Every site I reviewed , including CR, they simply send out the survey annually to all of their subscribers with specific questions of what kind of vehicle, make, model etc....after compiling the responses they compare them to their own personal social scientists tests results from their own personal test group. They do NOT allow any outside experts, claiming that's why they don't pay for advertisers. On the contrary, JD Power has VINS from actual owners. It seems to me CR is basically using the 'honor system' rather than actual proof you own the vehicle? Are there any CR subscribers out there that can answer this? (See attached and read how Data is collected...its sent out to every subscriber ...no proof of ownership). That being said...MFT has hurt Ford in any survey!

 

Car Reliability FAQ | Answers to Reliability Questions - Consumer Reports

Edited by bobbyd
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I think criticizing the infotainment systems and lumping them into a "reliability" column misses the point. If, within the test period, the infotainment system fails--"blue screen of death" (or whatever the functional equivalent is for infotainment systems)--then that would be a reliability issues akin to a Jeep's proclivity to shell transmissions. As I understand electronic systems, aren't they really more "glitchy" than "unreliable"? Case in point, I have a '13 Edge Limited and a '13 Focus ST. Both have MFT. To this owner, they look identical and appear to offer identical functions. However, the MFT in the ST responds more slowly and is prone to go into an endless loop on Travel-Link functions whereas the Edge never does--despite having an earlier build date than the ST. Maybe CR should break down and qualitatively opine about the systems instead of suggesting they are a reliability problem. Even shut down for periodic updates, MFT has never effected the functionality of my driving experience.

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Why would they allow "outside experts"? The survey is designed for owners to report problems they've had with vehicles they own. Is there any verification that the subscriber actually owns that specific vehicle? Probably not, but you'd have to out of your way to provide false ratings on vehicles you didn't own and the vast majority of subscribers simply wouldn't do that. I got a survey years ago but I don't remember the details. But it's not like an individual could submit dozens of bad survey results just to disparage a brand.

 

I'm not defending CR in general, but I don't think the survey results are really prone to being spammed. Although I do think they can be misleading.

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Why would they allow "outside experts"? The survey is designed for owners to report problems they've had with vehicles they own. Is there any verification that the subscriber actually owns that specific vehicle? Probably not, but you'd have to out of your way to provide false ratings on vehicles you didn't own and the vast majority of subscribers simply wouldn't do that. I got a survey years ago but I don't remember the details. But it's not like an individual could submit dozens of bad survey results just to disparage a brand.

 

I'm not defending CR in general, but I don't think the survey results are really prone to being spammed. Although I do think they can be misleading.

 

One way in which reader surveys can be misleading is that sometimes consumers don't want to admit they have a dud.

 

Someone who was convinced by all of his friends and family who own Vehicle X that Vehicle X was the best choice on the road and ends up having nothing but problems from Vehicle X might not want to admit there are problems, because, after all, all those other owners told him they were such good vehicles. He must be doing something wrong by his own doing to make it a bad vehicle so he wouldn't want to give it a bad name for his specific (and assumed to be isolated) reasons.

 

On the opposite end, someone whose friends and family all recommend Vehicle X but he goes out and buys Vehicle Y instead because he's sure it's the better choice might not want to admit Vehicle Y has any problems because that would give everyone else an "I told you so" moment.

 

Then there are just the brand loyal who think no matter how many problems their car has, the other guys are probably having even more so it's still a "good" car.

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One way in which reader surveys can be misleading is that sometimes consumers don't want to admit they have a dud.

 

Someone who was convinced by all of his friends and family who own Vehicle X that Vehicle X was the best choice on the road and ends up having nothing but problems from Vehicle X might not want to admit there are problems, because, after all, all those other owners told him they were such good vehicles. He must be doing something wrong by his own doing to make it a bad vehicle so he wouldn't want to give it a bad name for his specific (and assumed to be isolated) reasons.

 

On the opposite end, someone whose friends and family all recommend Vehicle X but he goes out and buys Vehicle Y instead because he's sure it's the better choice might not want to admit Vehicle Y has any problems because that would give everyone else an "I told you so" moment.

 

Then there are just the brand loyal who think no matter how many problems their car has, the other guys are probably having even more so it's still a "good" car.

 

Absolutely. We all rationalize our decisions to a certain extent even if it's subconsciously.

 

The other distinction is between problems likely to reoccur down the road versus one time problems usually due to engineering problems, bad batches of parts or assembly line issues. Take my Fusion - I had to take it back to have a missing trim piece added around the inside rear view mirror and the fuel sending unit and fuel tank replaced due to defective parts. There were similar problems with the Focus launch due to tranny issues and the Escape with engine fires and other issues. But none of those problems seem to be occurring now nor would they be reasonably expected to reoccur - they were one time problems due to a new vehicle design in a new plant with new suppliers. That's a lot different than parts wearing out prematurely or having multiple things go wrong several years into ownership and requiring expensive repairs. But there is no way with the survey to account for those differences.

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The 63% more problems than average figure is also very misleading. The total spread in problems per 100 vehicles in the 2012 CR study (couldn't find the range for the 2013) was 73 for Lexus verse 151 for Fiat. If the average is 100 (it is probably more like 110-130, if CR numbers are close to JD Power) than 63 pct worse would be higher than the problems reported for any brand in 2012. What really matters to customers is the likely number of problems they will have with their car. With a Lexus it rounds up to one at about the same amount that a Ford rounds down to one. This includes not liking MicroSows infotainment system.

Edited by TBirdStangSkyliner
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