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Can you bring anything to the table?

 

1. Please provide your evidence that makes him out as a phony.

2. The gold standard just don't jive with our politicians spending habits. If Gold was as bad as you say then why do the US and other big countries have stockpiles? Even better why do the banks hold it also?

3. Look at where the deficit has gone since Nixon closed the Gold window in 1971. He said we would have a stable currency, it would be worth the same tomorrow as it is today. What happened?

4. Where are the jobs then?

 

I did.

 

1. His belief in the gold standard marks him as a phony.

2. Gold is not bad or good, it just is. The idea of being on a Gold Standard today isn't bad, it's fucking stupid.

 

Now you want me to guess why they hold it? Because it has value, why else? People still value gold. I'm sure there is also some nefarious CYA stuff just in case some idiot convinces some country somewhere to go to the gold standard and we need to screw their economy up.

 

3. Your asking me to defend Nixon? That's quite a turn around.

4. Where are what jobs then? Could you be a bit more specific?

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I did.

 

1. His belief in the gold standard marks him as a phony.

2. Gold is not bad or good, it just is. The idea of being on a Gold Standard today isn't bad, it's fucking stupid.

 

Now you want me to guess why they hold it? Because it has value, why else? People still value gold. I'm sure there is also some nefarious CYA stuff just in case some idiot convinces some country somewhere to go to the gold standard and we need to screw their economy up.

 

3. Your asking me to defend Nixon? That's quite a turn around.

4. Where are what jobs then? Could you be a bit more specific?

1. Why does it make him phony though, please elaborate.

2. What makes it stupid? I look at history and where have we gone since being off of it? The biggest part I like about it is it controls government spending which I believe we have a big unsustainable problem.

 

We are told by government and big banks that gold is nothing special yet they seem to horde a lot of it. How does it screw up an economy?

 

3 and 4. According to his August 15, 1971 national address it was supposed to stop inflation, create an abundance of jobs and put us in a a Fiat euphoria. What the hell happened?

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1. Why does it make him phony though, please elaborate.

2. What makes it stupid? I look at history and where have we gone since being off of it? The biggest part I like about it is it controls government spending which I believe we have a big unsustainable problem.

 

We are told by government and big banks that gold is nothing special yet they seem to horde a lot of it. How does it screw up an economy?

 

3 and 4. According to his August 15, 1971 national address it was supposed to stop inflation, create an abundance of jobs and put us in a a Fiat euphoria. What the hell happened?

1. We've had long discussions on the Gold standard and his (your) pining away for a flawed system that in several different types was ultimately not a sound fiscal policy makes him a phony. Anyone aware of the issues surrounding the gold standard including Betton Woods would be highly suspect in regards to returning to it. In short he should know better.

 

2. You like the Gold Standard because it controls your pet peeve and ignore all of the issues surrounding monetary policy so we should use it? I prefer to avoid the problems associated with the various forms of the gold standard such as deflation, outside manipulation and deal with with the issues of government spending through the electoral process.

 

3. I read the speech and researched the many things he also did at the time and find that it wasn't singular by any means. There were problems with Fed monetary policy, the totality of what Nixon was pursuing and the politics of the time. Moving from the gold standard did allow more inflation but like Volker later showed Fed policy can control that.

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1. We've had long discussions on the Gold standard and his (your) pining away for a flawed system that in several different types was ultimately not a sound fiscal policy makes him a phony. Anyone aware of the issues surrounding the gold standard including Betton Woods would be highly suspect in regards to returning to it. In short he should know better.

 

2. You like the Gold Standard because it controls your pet peeve and ignore all of the issues surrounding monetary policy so we should use it? I prefer to avoid the problems associated with the various forms of the gold standard such as deflation, outside manipulation and deal with with the issues of government spending through the electoral process.

 

3. I read the speech and researched the many things he also did at the time and find that it wasn't singular by any means. There were problems with Fed monetary policy, the totality of what Nixon was pursuing and the politics of the time. Moving from the gold standard did allow more inflation but like Volker later showed Fed policy can control that.

1. So you are saying that a Fiat policy is a sound system?

 

2. So we should let them just keep spending as has happened since 1971? How much longer do you think this can go on?

What are all these issues you speak of?

Like the deflation we just went through?

We had a gold standard for over 150 years that seemed to work. Fiat has only been for just over 40 years and look at the clowns we have now. I don't have high hopes for the electoral process. Financially this country has gone down every year since then also.

 

3. Fed policy can't control anything, it has been created booms and the following busts ever since. Do you believe in a market?

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After the monetary collapse, people will accept the gold standard.

That is another funny thing coming from these people that say gold is a flawed system. Fiat policies always inflate themselves away till they end. That's a 0% success record and they complain about a flawed system? LOL

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That is another funny thing coming from these people that say gold is a flawed system. Fiat policies always inflate themselves away till they end. That's a 0% success record and they complain about a flawed system? LOL

I read about the disadvantages of the gold standard and none of them were ever proven..... They brainwash people with lies!

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I like how people criticize the gold standard as if the fiat system is perfect. :hysterical:

Here is a little history.

 

http://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

 

The history of fiat money, to put it kindly, has been one of failure. In fact, EVERY fiat currency since the Romans first began the practice in the first century has ended in devaluation and eventual collapse, of not only the currency, but of the economy that housed the fiat currency as well.

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Does the US government need a GM style Chapter 11 Make over?

 

Separate into two governments, old and new allowing the new government to emerge debt free and much stronger

while leaving all the debts and bits of government that don't work behind to go Ch 7.....

 

 

You can start laughing now....:)

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Does the US government need a GM style Chapter 11 Make over?

 

Separate into two governments, old and new allowing the new government to emerge debt free and much stronger

while leaving all the debts and bits of government that don't work behind to go Ch 7.....

 

 

You can start laughing now.... :)

There may be some un-intentional truth in that. But, you didn't mention the keystone.........

certain groups of debts would be prioritized before equity based secured debts......

based on political influence.

 

The precedent has been set.

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1. So you are saying that a Fiat policy is a sound system?

 

2. So we should let them just keep spending as has happened since 1971? How much longer do you think this can go on?

What are all these issues you speak of?

Like the deflation we just went through?

We had a gold standard for over 150 years that seemed to work. Fiat has only been for just over 40 years and look at the clowns we have now. I don't have high hopes for the electoral process. Financially this country has gone down every year since then also.

 

3. Fed policy can't control anything, it has been created booms and the following busts ever since. Do you believe in a market?

 

1. Ultimately, the fiat system is the only system we can use. There is no return to the gold standard at this point and despite having inherent faults it's what we are going to have to work with.

 

2. We have had numerous different systems over the past 150 years most of them some sort of metallic standard, but they all had flaws as large as the current fiat system. most people put the gold standard at 1879 with interruptions for the War and ending in 1971. That would put it at under a hundred years over all.

 

As for the issues your aware that the Gold standard is subject to manipulation by outside forces, namely other governments. It is also subject to short term spikes up and down. Then there is economic growth as output and gold production have to maintain an equilibrium

 

As for deflation lets take a look

 

1921 -1.6 -5.6 -7.1 -10.8 -14.1 -15.8 -14.9 -12.8 -12.5 -12.1 -12.1 -10.8 -10.5 1922 -11.1 -8.2 -8.7 -7.7 -5.6 -5.1 -5.1 -6.2 -5.1 -4.6 -3.4 -2.3 -6.1

 

Some serious deflation in those two years. but lets check out the some more.

1926 3.5 4.1 2.9 4.1 2.9 1.1 -1.1 -1.7 -1.1 -0.6 -1.7 -1.1 1.1 1927 -2.2 -2.8 -2.8 -3.4 -2.2 -0.6 -1.1 -1.1 -1.1 -1.1 -2.3 -2.3 -1.7 1928 -1.1 -1.7 -1.2 -1.2 -1.1 -2.8 -1.2 -0.6 0.0 -1.1 -0.6 -1.2 -1.7 1929 -1.2 0.0 -0.6 -1.2 -1.2 0.0 1.2 1.2 0.0 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.0 1930 0.0 -0.6 -0.6 0.6 -0.6 -1.8 -4.0 -4.6 -4.0 -4.6 -5.2 -6.4 -2.3 1931 -7.0 -7.6 -7.7 -8.8 -9.5 -10.1 -9.0 -8.5 -9.6 -9.7 -10.4 -9.3 -9.0 1932 -10.1 -10.2 -10.3 -10.3 -10.5 -9.9 -9.9 -10.6 -10.7 -10.7 -10.2 -10.3 -9.9 1933 -9.8 -9.9 -10.0 -9.4 -8.0 -6.6 -3.7 -2.2 -1.5 -0.8 0.0 0.8 -5.1

 

Now your aware that Roosevelt took us off the gold standard in June of 1933. Let's see about that horrific deflation that occurred recently.

2009 0.0 0.2 -0.4 -0.7 -1.3 -1.4 -2.1 -1.5 -1.3 -0.2 1.8 2.7 -0.4

 

That is truly deflation on the same level of the gold standard is it not? No, actually it is not.

 

3. Actually Fed policy can control things, and your aware of that if you spent anytime thinking about it. Volker in his time as Fed chair did ultimately control inflation. However your correct that unsound monetary policy can cause more problems than they correct.

 

And we haven't even rehashed the points concerning converting back to a gold standard. That is a major issue.

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NAFTA really did some damage to America..... Clinton is a traitor for signing that war criminal's bill.

NAFTA was in my mind the beginning of the end for the US. The flood gates opened when that thing was signed, jobs were off-shored faster than rats jumping from a sinking ship. Every high powered exec in charge of moving labor and filling their pockets embraced that thing with open arms and gladly put huge numbers of Americans out of work all to bolster stock price and bonuses. NAFTA to me is/was the single biggest reason we continue to experience a national unemployment rate of 8% (14%+ if you adjust for those not on the grid). I'm not sure if it can be reversed but it should be as soon as possible.

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In a scant 30 years (give or take) the average price of a car has gone from $10,000 to $30,000 or 3x increase.

 

Based on the technology and content that comes standard in vehicles today, it's pretty much impossible to directly compare their pricing today to what it was 3 decades ago. Even a "fully loaded" luxury car 30 years ago didn't come with many of the features you'll even now find standard on a Chevy Spark.

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Stop buying the fancy shit at the grocery store. I like how everyone wants the gourmet shit but bitches about the prices.

You do go into grocery stores don't you??? You do see that just about every item is $5 $6 $10 $12 right? Its not my imagination and unless you're eating white pasta and rice every night everything is over priced.

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1. Ultimately, the fiat system is the only system we can use. There is no return to the gold standard at this point and despite having inherent faults it's what we are going to have to work with.

 

2. We have had numerous different systems over the past 150 years most of them some sort of metallic standard, but they all had flaws as large as the current fiat system. most people put the gold standard at 1879 with interruptions for the War and ending in 1971. That would put it at under a hundred years over all.

 

As for the issues your aware that the Gold standard is subject to manipulation by outside forces, namely other governments. It is also subject to short term spikes up and down. Then there is economic growth as output and gold production have to maintain an equilibrium

 

As for deflation lets take a look

 

1921 -1.6 -5.6 -7.1 -10.8 -14.1 -15.8 -14.9 -12.8 -12.5 -12.1 -12.1 -10.8 -10.5 1922 -11.1 -8.2 -8.7 -7.7 -5.6 -5.1 -5.1 -6.2 -5.1 -4.6 -3.4 -2.3 -6.1

 

Some serious deflation in those two years. but lets check out the some more.

1926 3.5 4.1 2.9 4.1 2.9 1.1 -1.1 -1.7 -1.1 -0.6 -1.7 -1.1 1.1 1927 -2.2 -2.8 -2.8 -3.4 -2.2 -0.6 -1.1 -1.1 -1.1 -1.1 -2.3 -2.3 -1.7 1928 -1.1 -1.7 -1.2 -1.2 -1.1 -2.8 -1.2 -0.6 0.0 -1.1 -0.6 -1.2 -1.7 1929 -1.2 0.0 -0.6 -1.2 -1.2 0.0 1.2 1.2 0.0 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.0 1930 0.0 -0.6 -0.6 0.6 -0.6 -1.8 -4.0 -4.6 -4.0 -4.6 -5.2 -6.4 -2.3 1931 -7.0 -7.6 -7.7 -8.8 -9.5 -10.1 -9.0 -8.5 -9.6 -9.7 -10.4 -9.3 -9.0 1932 -10.1 -10.2 -10.3 -10.3 -10.5 -9.9 -9.9 -10.6 -10.7 -10.7 -10.2 -10.3 -9.9 1933 -9.8 -9.9 -10.0 -9.4 -8.0 -6.6 -3.7 -2.2 -1.5 -0.8 0.0 0.8 -5.1

 

Now your aware that Roosevelt took us off the gold standard in June of 1933. Let's see about that horrific deflation that occurred recently.

2009 0.0 0.2 -0.4 -0.7 -1.3 -1.4 -2.1 -1.5 -1.3 -0.2 1.8 2.7 -0.4

 

That is truly deflation on the same level of the gold standard is it not? No, actually it is not.

 

3. Actually Fed policy can control things, and your aware of that if you spent anytime thinking about it. Volker in his time as Fed chair did ultimately control inflation. However your correct that unsound monetary policy can cause more problems than they correct.

 

And we haven't even rehashed the points concerning converting back to a gold standard. That is a major issue.

1. So we choose a system that is a proven failure over one, even you admit, just has faults?

 

2. Like I said flaws compared to a proven failure of a system. Don't we cry about currency manipulation now? So long term ups and downs are better?

 

3. They control the booms but are getting to the point of not being able to control the busts. How long have rates been at all time lows and where is our economy still stuck? They can't control it. The 80's were great economic times under Volckers rule, LOL. "However your correct that unsound monetary policy can cause more problems than they correct." This is why it has always failed in history.

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1. So we choose a system that is a proven failure over one, even you admit, just has faults?

 

2. Like I said flaws compared to a proven failure of a system. Don't we cry about currency manipulation now? So long term ups and downs are better?

 

3. They control the booms but are getting to the point of not being able to control the busts. How long have rates been at all time lows and where is our economy still stuck? They can't control it. The 80's were great economic times under Volckers rule, LOL. "However your correct that unsound monetary policy can cause more problems than they correct." This is why it has always failed in history.

 

1. Please provide some evidence of such.

 

2. Your deflecting. You made mention of the recent deflation and then when faced with the inherent issues of a gold standard, namely large scale deflation, not the actions of the FED you act like you didn't notice and just repeat the same generic statements you made in #1.

 

3. Everything that conservatives credit to Reagan was because of Volker's time at the FED. Of course no one likes a recession and ultimately Volker did cause one, but the reality is that he unlike any Fed Chair before him ultimately brought inflation back under control. While the medicine was tough to swallow, it was the correct course of action. And then another random no evidence statement.

 

4. So what we know about about the Gold standard at this point is that it creates volatile swings in the market, has a huge deflationary effect on our economy included wages, limits growth at best and impinges on it when gold production drops but output doesn't, is 99.99% impossible to return to and is not a wise idea if we could. But it does limit government spending which seems to be all that counts for you.

 

4.a. Currently there is not enough gold to cover the US dollars in circulation.

4. b. Majority of gold production is outside of the US, which makes outside manipulation a real possibility. And going to a gold standard unilaterally isn't wise either.

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Based on the technology and content that comes standard in vehicles today, it's pretty much impossible to directly compare their pricing today to what it was 3 decades ago. Even a "fully loaded" luxury car 30 years ago didn't come with many of the features you'll even now find standard on a Chevy Spark.

 

It's the democratization of technology. Once upon a time V-8 engines, electric starters, power assisted steering and brakes, heaters, air conditioning, power windows and locks were only available in luxury cars. Eventually everything spreads to the lower levels of automobile. This is in part what doomed the mid-level makes like DeSoto, Oldsmoble, Pontiac and Mercury. Once all the same luxuries were available in a Ford or Chevy, there wasn't the need. The lack of true exclusivity is also what hurt Lincoln and Cadillac. If these flagship brands still held the positions they had in the 1930s they would start at over $100,000 today and would offer coach-built exclusive bodies. Both Lincoln and Cadillac lost a good bit of their star power when they began to strive for mass sales in the 1950s.

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