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Ford Motor Company June 2013 Sales

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You don't have to be #1 in sales to make money.

True, but the Expedition and Navigator have always sort of been afterthoughts and Ford never really had their heart in this market like GM does. The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market. They appeared pretty serious with the second generation when it came out in 2003, but it never really caught on and as time went on they sort of just put the vehicle on the back burner.

 

Sure you don't have to be #1 to make money, but you do need to be competitive. Unless the next gen F-150 is radically different then today's I am not sure how well it will morph into an SUV. I guess we will see what happens, but generally speaking Ford is much more successful in other product categories and I only see the full size market getting smaller. Loyal Ford buyers will just move to an Explorer if they don't need the towing and the few that do would be fine either in a GM SUV or a SuperCrew F-150.

 

Can they make some money off a new Expedition/Navigator program? Probably, but if the market continues to shrink and GM continues to invest in this market like they always have I'd say it gets harder and harder to worry about this segment. They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

Edited by 2005Explorer

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The Expeditions have always been competitive, even if the engine tech languished a bit. They really got the irs dialed in for 2007 (2008?), and even the first-gen models won some comparos. They've always tended to ride better and have better interiors because...the competition was GM.

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True, but the Expedition and Navigator have always sort of been afterthoughts and Ford never really had their heart in this market like GM does. The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market. They appeared pretty serious with the second generation when it came out in 2003, but it never really caught on and as time went on they sort of just put the vehicle on the back burner.

 

Sure you don't have to be #1 to make money, but you do need to be competitive. Unless the next gen F-150 is radically different then today's I am not sure how well it will morph into an SUV. I guess we will see what happens, but generally speaking Ford is much more successful in other product categories and I only see the full size market getting smaller. Loyal Ford buyers will just move to an Explorer if they don't need the towing and the few that do would be fine either in a GM SUV or a SuperCrew F-150.

 

Can they make some money off a new Expedition/Navigator program? Probably, but if the market continues to shrink and GM continues to invest in this market like they always have I'd say it gets harder and harder to worry about this segment. They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

 

Keep in mind: Ford didn't give the greenlight to the new Expedition/Navigator program until they got intel on the new GM K2 SUVs.

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Keep in mind: Ford didn't give the greenlight to the new Expedition/Navigator program until they got intel on the new GM K2 SUVs.

Well I'd say the next generation Expedition is still somewhat of a mystery. I've heard a lot about what people think it's going to be, but not much confirmation. If you have some I'd love to read it.

 

Edit: Ok I found some info saying its coming sometime in 2015. While looking I found this...

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-13/news/sns-rt-autos-fordf-series-exclusivel1e8ndbp4-20121213_1_f-series-pickup-buyers-truck-segment

 

"The F-series, which has been the best-selling vehicle in the

United States for 30 years, and sport-utility derivatives such

as the Expedition account for more than 90 percent of Ford's

global profit, according to Morgan Stanley auto analyst Adam

Jonas."

 

90%?!?! Is that true?

Edited by 2005Explorer

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Well I'd say the next generation Expedition is still somewhat of a mystery. I've heard a lot about what people think it's going to be, but not much confirmation. If you have some I'd love to read it.

 

Edit: Ok I found some info saying its coming sometime in 2015. While looking I found this...

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-13/news/sns-rt-autos-fordf-series-exclusivel1e8ndbp4-20121213_1_f-series-pickup-buyers-truck-segment

 

"The F-series, which has been the best-selling vehicle in the

United States for 30 years, and sport-utility derivatives such

as the Expedition account for more than 90 percent of Ford's

global profit, according to Morgan Stanley auto analyst Adam

Jonas."

 

90%?!?! Is that true?

 

I believe it comes after 2015, likely 2016. Much more aligned with F-150 than currently, though the IRS should be staying.

 

As for 90%... 10 years ago, yes.

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I believe it comes after 2015, likely 2016. Much more aligned with F-150 than currently, though the IRS should be staying.

 

As for 90%... 10 years ago, yes.

How much profit each quarter would be lost without 200K to 240K F Trucks.

Maybe not 90% of FNA's profit but I'd imagine that a product line that has both

a high average transaction price and high annual sales has to be a major profit earner

Edited by jpd80

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They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

It wouldn't be completely shocking, but neither the minivans nor the Ranger were what Expedition and Navigator are (reportedly) becoming--essentially, incremental costs on Ford's best selling and most profitable line. IMHO, the move back to the F-Series platform was a last-ditch effort by someone in Ford/Lincoln to save them; if that plan hadn't been approved, I think they'd be winding down production already.

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The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market.

 

As opposed to the Tahoe and Yukon that were just shortened and enclosed Silverados and Sierras?

 

Ford gave the expedition a unique suspension and interior which is far more than GM did although it never paid off in huge sales.

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As opposed to the Tahoe and Yukon that were just shortened and enclosed Silverados and Sierras?

 

Ford gave the expedition a unique suspension and interior which is far more than GM did although it never paid off in huge sales.

 

It did in the first gen. IIRC, the '97 (or was it '98?) Expedition led in sales for the full-size SUV category and continued that for several years. I'm too lazy to look up stats now. :)

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I'm too lazy to look up stats now. :)

 

No worries, fordmantpw - here are the sales figures for Ford Expedition in the U.S. between 1998 and 2003:

  • 1998 225,703
  • 1999 233,125
  • 2000 213,483
  • 2001 178,045
  • 2002 163,454
  • 2003 181,547

And for Chevrolet Tahoe & GMC Yukon (from L to R - Tahoe, Yukon, Total Tahoe + Yukon):

  • 1998 133,235 49,355 182,590
  • 1999 122,213 53,280 175,493
  • 2000 149,834 56,297 206,131
  • 2001 202,319 77,254 279,573
  • 2002 209,767 76,488 286,255
  • 2003 199,065 86,238 285,303

You are correct - Expedition had a commanding lead in its market segment in 1998 and 1999, and still exceeded the total sales of Tahoe & Yukon combined in 2000 (but by a smaller margin). In 2001, GM took the sales crown.

Edited by aneekr

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It did in the first gen. IIRC, the '97 (or was it '98?) Expedition led in sales for the full-size SUV category and continued that for several years. I'm too lazy to look up stats now. :)

 

So it did. I thought the Suburban always outsold it.

Edited by akirby

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True. I was just asking if we have any clue if Ford sells more El or regular Expy's.

I think some of it depends on the area. I notice more ELs around here then I do regular ones, but then again this is pretty big "Suburban" country as well. Now I don't know if I have ever seen a Navigator L out in the wild. Those must be rare.

Edited by 2005Explorer

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While advertisements for the current Taurus may not be substantial, sales incentives are. According to TrueCar, last month the Taurus recorded the largest discounts as a percentage of MSRP of any model in the large sedan category. Other Fords that topped their respective categories were E-Series, Focus, Edge, and Mustang.

 

Ford's incentives last month were very competitive, so the favorable sales results come as no surprise.

The Ford Taurus incentives for June 2013 were $2500 , which was the same for the Chrysler 300! The LaCross was giving $2000 or 0% incentives on leases plus $500! The Chevy Impala was giving $4000 cash incentive on their 2013 models. I would say that was the big incentive deal for June!

Edited by bobbyd

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The Ford Taurus incentives for June 2013 were $2500 , which was the same for the Chrysler 300! The LaCross was giving $2000 or 0% incentives on leases plus $500! The Chevy Impala was giving $4000 cash incentive on their 2013 models. I would say that was the big incentive deal for June!

Thanks for the info bobbyd, it's clear why GM sales of both Cruze and Impala spiked last month,

those $99/mth killer lease deals on Cruze and and strong cash incentives on Impala is consistent

with typical GM behavior when faced with mounting inventory........

 

Without those 20,000 extra sales, Ford /Lincoln sales would have been uncomfortably close to GM's combined sales..

Edited by jpd80

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I bought my Fusion on Saturday, 6/29. I presume it's in those numbers though.

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As opposed to the Tahoe and Yukon that were just shortened and enclosed Silverados and Sierras?

 

Ford gave the expedition a unique suspension and interior which is far more than GM did although it never paid off in huge sales.

 

 

It did in the first gen. IIRC, the '97 (or was it '98?) Expedition led in sales for the full-size SUV category and continued that for several years. I'm too lazy to look up stats now. :)

 

 

The IRS was 2nd gen Expedition and the sales started to decline pretty much after it came out in 2003. Part of it was the raising gas price but akirby is right that the investment in IRS and unique chassis didn't pay off. In fact, it probably hobbled Ford's ability to quickly update the Expedition annually like it did with F-150. Fullsize SUV buyers never really cared for IRS and Ford's market research lead them down some strange path with 2nd and 3rd gen Expy and 'Gator.

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The IRS was 2nd gen Expedition and the sales started to decline pretty much after it came out in 2003. Part of it was the raising gas price but akirby is right that the investment in IRS and unique chassis didn't pay off. In fact, it probably hobbled Ford's ability to quickly update the Expedition annually like it did with F-150. Fullsize SUV buyers never really cared for IRS and Ford's market research lead them down some strange path with 2nd and 3rd gen Expy and 'Gator.

Let's not forget about one of the main reasons they did the IRS in the first place: It allowed them to install the fold-away third row seats, which is quite a nice feature given the bulk of the removable seats in the previous generation and in competitors' vehicles.

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Let's not forget about one of the main reasons they did the IRS in the first place: It allowed them to install the fold-away third row seats, which is quite a nice feature given the bulk of the removable seats in the previous generation and in competitors' vehicles.

 

And I have seen first-hand that there are GM fans that lament the company not doing the same with the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade.

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And I have seen first-hand that there are GM fans that lament the company not doing the same with the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade.

 

And yet, the GMT900 SUV sextuplets outsells Ford fullsize competition 4 to 1.

 

How many people buying 3 row fullsize SUV really intends to fold down/remove the 3rd row on a regular basis that would make the disappearing seats on the Ford a vital shopping consideration? Probably not that many based on the sales pattern. Disappearing/fold down 3rd row seats have real utility value on a midsize SUV because you may need the cargo room where the 3rd row occupies on a regular basis. The fullsize SUV like Expedition already provide ample cargo room behind the 3rd row for most grocery shopping needs so that made the disappearing/fold down 3rd row a novelty rather than a "must have".

 

Ford's market research on 2nd gen Expedition probably focused on Explorer and other midsize SUV buyers up-sizing on their next purchase. They probably heard repeatedly that fold down 3rd row is a must have. But that was the wrong focus group.

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And yet, the GMT900 SUV sextuplets outsells Ford fullsize competition 4 to 1.

 

Granted. I'm not saying that it hurt the Tahoe, etc. in sales. Just that the people I mentioned wished that they had that feature.

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And yet, the GMT900 SUV sextuplets outsells Ford fullsize competition 4 to 1.

 

How many people buying 3 row fullsize SUV really intends to fold down/remove the 3rd row on a regular basis that would make the disappearing seats on the Ford a vital shopping consideration? Probably not that many based on the sales pattern. Disappearing/fold down 3rd row seats have real utility value on a midsize SUV because you may need the cargo room where the 3rd row occupies on a regular basis. The fullsize SUV like Expedition already provide ample cargo room behind the 3rd row for most grocery shopping needs so that made the disappearing/fold down 3rd row a novelty rather than a "must have".

 

Ford's market research on 2nd gen Expedition probably focused on Explorer and other midsize SUV buyers up-sizing on their next purchase. They probably heard repeatedly that fold down 3rd row is a must have. But that was the wrong focus group.

 

I will probably get slammed for saying this, but IMHO the GMT900s are just better looking full size SUVs. They just seem to have a presence and style that the Expedition doesn't and although they are traditional they still have a modern flair to them. The interior on them seems a bit softer and more SUV like compared to the F-Series style of the Expedition.

 

When it comes to the Escalade versus the Navigator there just isn't any comparison. Solid axle or not the Escalade just seems to be more luxurious and stylish. I also believe that the Navigator is down quite a bit on power compared to the Escalade.

 

I'm not sure the reason behind the success of the GMT900s, but I assume that the next generation will be hard to beat. From what I have read each model will have more "unique" styling, but I am not sure how different the Chevy and GMC versions will be although it is likely the Cadillac might get some unique pieces.

 

Ford has claimed going forward that every Lincoln would have completely unique sheet metal, but you have to wonder looking at Navigator sales if that would really pay off?

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Or buying Camrys. Point remains though -- that demographic abandoned that type of car long ago.

 

The demographic to care about is the big group of luxury buying boomers who came up behind the 1988 RWD sedan buyers. These are buying Bimmers, Audis, Caddys, Benzies, and Lexies. Many of those cars are RWD or rear biased AWD's. The FWD models of some of those makes benefit to an extent by association with their RWD brethren.

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No doubt, Ford has prioritized the maximizing of F150 Super cab and Double cab sales ahead of modernizing

the Expedition and Navigator. Even though the SUVs are now a dribble, the combined effort is still impressive

and hopefully, reuniting F150 and Explorer will pay evenbigger dividends.

 

I know that's not the answer some will want to hear but I bet Ford ran the numbers and found no financial advantage in

upgrading engines in the SUVs without significant weight reduction.... clearly that's what Ford is planning to do next year....

Edited by jpd80

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The demographic to care about is the big group of luxury buying boomers who came up behind the 1988 RWD sedan buyers. These are buying Bimmers, Audis, Caddys, Benzies, and Lexies. Many of those cars are RWD or rear biased AWD's. The FWD models of some of those makes benefit to an extent by association with their RWD brethren.

Need we be reminded that Lexus's two best-selling models are FWD-based? As are the volume Audis. And no, I don't think it has anything to do with them benefiting by association. It's because people generally just don't care what wheels drive their vehicle.

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