aneekr Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) But that also depends on what your watching or listening too also...I know I've seen Lincoln getting advertised pretty heavily on the TV I watch...like the Walking Dead... This is a perfect tie-in. Not only does the TV series The Walking Dead have a starring role for a gentleman with surname Lincoln, it is promoted by an automotive marque of the same name that is literally among the "walking dead" (more dead than walking, though) at this juncture. Edited April 2, 2013 by aneekr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Cadillac Sales: 15,571 (up 50%)Buick Sales: 18,007 (up 37.4 %) Lincoln Sales: 6,825 (down 23.7%) The MKS is probably struggling due to the existence of the XTS as well. Lincoln MKS sold 924, while Caddy sold over 3K. It's just amazing how few Lincoln customers there are at this point, especially since Lincoln isn't a boutique brand. As I've fallen on my sword, I'm glad you picked it up and are continuing on with the good fight Borg. Keep up the fight....LOL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Cadillac Sales: 15,571 (up 50%) Buick Sales: 18,007 (up 37.4 %) Lincoln Sales: 6,825 (down 23.7%) The MKS is probably struggling due to the existence of the XTS as well. Lincoln MKS sold 924, while Caddy sold over 3K. It's just amazing how few Lincoln customers there are at this point, especially since Lincoln isn't a boutique brand. It's not amazing at all when you consider how few competent and up-to-date vehicles are in the lineup at this point. If someone tried to give me an MKS, MKT, or Navigator for free at this point, I'd immediately turn around and sell it. The MKZ is the only remotely alluring vehicle they have right now, and well, we all know how wonderful the deliveries have been on that so far. Lincoln isn't going to recover any volume with their older vehicles. Don't think that's too difficult to grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The MKZ will have respectable sales once the roll out is complete.........late or not. A new MKS can't come fast enough! Nav, MKT barely matter at this point. The MKX being down almost 10% is the only surprise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) The MKZ will have respectable sales once the roll out is complete.........late or not. A new MKS can't come fast enough! Nav, MKT barely matter at this point. The MKX being down almost 10% is the only surprise to me. I would say the MKT isn't long for this world with a likely Explorer-based replacement taking its spot when the next gen Explorer debuts. I wouldn't say Navigator is at all insignificant in the long-term health of the brand. It is just currently woefully outdated and....ugly, and it is selling accordingly. I'm sure none of this is a surprise to Lincoln as it stays the course with the revival plan. The only real "shock" to the plan has been the incredibly rocky launch of the MKZ, but I don't see where that should really have any direct impact on any other plans they already have in the works. Looking over at the Ford brand, some of the vehicles with recent rocky launches there (Focus, Fusion, Escape) have weathered the storm just fine in the long run. I expect the MKZ to eventually do the same. The continued solid performance of the Ford brand also should quell fears that Ford may start to cut somewhat superfluous programs from their long-term plans. Edited April 2, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 My understanding is that MKZ deliveries didn't really start happening in any numbers until he last week or two of March. Thus, we should see some better numbers in April. However, maybe Lincoln will hold back on MKZ deliveries, just so they can read Borg and Fordbuyers negative posts. Good month for Ford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) The MKZs started showing up at dealers in mass in the first week of February (that's when all my dealer's pre-orders arrived). And indeed I don't think these last 6 months will effect sales long term, although it likely sabotaged Lincoln's marketing efforts which combined with the well publicized launch delays to further embarass the company. Although it's better to solve your problems before you deliver them to customers. Lincoln is still a very inexperienced company, it's making rookie mistakes and therefore has many years to go before it's in a position to challenge the mature players. And Lincoln does not have allot of products, and it certainly doesn't have allot of cheaper products. The MKC should add quite a bit of volume, although Caddy and Lexus will be adding the same vehicles around the same time so Lincoln probably won't be making much headway relative to the growth of the competition. And the MKC will likely cannibalize the MKX for a year until that car is replaced (or is discontinued when the factory switches to the new Edge ahead of the next MKX). But once the MKC and MKX are in place, in about 2 years, the brand should be in a healthier position until the MKT and MKS successors launch. But Lincoln will need more products than those core players at some point, Lincoln doesn't have a well diversified sedan lineup which is where most luxury players are and why Caddy has grown so exponentially this year. Edited April 2, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The MKZs started showing up at dealers in mass in the first week of February (that's when all my dealer's pre-orders arrived). Because Detroit = entire universe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 But Lincoln will need more products than those core players at some point. More than?? Don't see why Lincoln couldn't remain relatively healthy with simply MKC, MKZ, MKS, MKT/MKExplorer, and Navigator. They simply need to all be good, modern products. Right now most of them aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Because Detroit = entire universe? Actually, they were arriving in the West a week earlier, and the East Coast a week later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) More than?? Don't see why Lincoln couldn't remain relatively healthy with simply MKC, MKZ, MKS, MKT/MKExplorer, and Navigator. They simply need to all be good, modern products. Right now most of them aren't. The biggest growth in the segment are in Crossovers and small sedans, Lincoln will not be in the smaller sedan space which is a challenge they will need to solve at some point. It may simply mean redressing a Focus which is something that they could be working on, as they have long been rumored to be doing. But it's hard to imagine Lincoln's brand of luxury translating well to a small car that isn't sporty, sounds allot like a Verano. Edited April 2, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Actually, they were arriving in the West a week earlier, and the East Coast a week later. I dunno. Only Lincoln dealer I go past on any regular basis didn't appear to have a single one the last time I went by it, unless they are intentionally only parking MKT's and MKS's in front, which seems unlikely. They may be receiving them to fill customer orders, but as far as retail stock goes, the pickin's are still mighty slim. Edited April 2, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 So, what you are saying is, deliveries didn't start happening in any numbers, until the last couple of weeks of March, huh?? You say tomato, I say tomahto. It is still the same fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The biggest growth in the segment are in Crossovers and small sedans, Lincoln will not be in the smaller sedan space which is a challenge they will need to solve at some point. It may simply mean redressing a Focus which is something that they could be working on, as they have long been rumored to be doing. Those rumors all seemed to die down awhile ago once the "small Lincoln" was confirmed to be the MKC. Given Lincoln's market position, I don't think they can really step down to a C-segment sedan until they are able to push pricing further upmarket on their midsize and large cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) The dealers are starting to stock them in good quantity, but they tell me they are waiting on some incentives to get them moving because lease rates are very unfavorable right now. At least that's the case with Crest and Troy Lincoln. (I'm looking to lease a 2nd vehicle for business) Edited April 2, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) The dealers are starting to stock them in good quantity, but they tell me they are waiting on some incentives to get them moving because lease rates are very unfavorable right now. At least that's the case with Crest and Troy Lincoln. (I'm looking to lease a 2nd vehicle for business) Koons Ford/Lincoln of Annapolis shows 6 in stock on their website, 5 hybrids and 1 V6 FWD. Wouldn't consider that "good quantity". (On closer examination though, it looks like their online inventory is entirely screwed up. They only list 1 MKS, 3 MKTs, 13 MKX's, and 2 Navigators.) Edited April 2, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Those rumors all seemed to die down awhile ago once the "small Lincoln" was confirmed to be the MKC. Given Lincoln's market position, I don't think they can really step down to a C-segment sedan until they are able to push pricing further upmarket on their midsize and large cars. Agreed, although Lincoln could use a car in the $30K range, there is allot of room under the MKZ and MKC. I don't think Lincoln is in a position to sell such cars however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Actually, they were arriving in the West a week earlier, and the East Coast a week later. What are your sources? Anecdotal evidence? "I saw one at a....."? What quantities, what locations? When? There isn't one at the SF Lincoln dealer, therefore, there are no MKZs anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The biggest growth in the segment are in Crossovers and small sedans, Lincoln will not be in the smaller sedan space which is a challenge they will need to solve at some point. It may simply mean redressing a Focus which is something that they could be working on, as they have long been rumored to be doing. But it's hard to imagine Lincoln's brand of luxury translating well to a small car that isn't sporty, sounds allot like a Verano. The MKZs started showing up at dealers in mass in the first week of February (that's when all my dealer's pre-orders arrived). And indeed I don't think these last 6 months will effect sales long term, although it likely sabotaged Lincoln's marketing efforts which combined with the well publicized launch delays to further embarass the company. Although it's better to solve your problems before you deliver them to customers. Lincoln is still a very inexperienced company, it's making rookie mistakes and therefore has many years to go before it's in a position to challenge the mature players. And Lincoln does not have allot of products, and it certainly doesn't have allot of cheaper products. The MKC should add quite a bit of volume, although Caddy and Lexus will be adding the same vehicles around the same time so Lincoln probably won't be making much headway relative to the growth of the competition. And the MKC will likely cannibalize the MKX for a year until that car is replaced (or is discontinued when the factory switches to the new Edge ahead of the next MKX). But once the MKC and MKX are in place, in about 2 years, the brand should be in a healthier position until the MKT and MKS successors launch. But Lincoln will need more products than those core players at some point, Lincoln doesn't have a well diversified sedan lineup which is where most luxury players are and why Caddy has grown so exponentially this year. I question the accuracy, and in many cases the relevance of the bolded declaratives above. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that "challenge" = profit "rookie mistakes" therefore some vague something That the most important luxury segment is compact cars That the most important luxury segment is CUVs That the most important luxury segment is "diversified sedans" --- I'm thinking that, you know, we should probably avoid making broad sweeping statements, especially contradictory ones--or ones that have little to no bearing on the profitability of the brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The dealers are starting to stock them in good quantity................. My rural northern Michigan Ford dealer has exactly one new MKZ in stock (in the showroom). On the other hand, there are about 50 F-150's in his parking lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I think I speak for everyone when I ask, "where the heck are these Fusions coming from?" To answer your question, we nee only look at the inventory level Ford has built up, 48,000 at the start of February. Ford is trading on that because it is now selling practically every Fusion it makes and then some..... This is spectacular to see and completely justifies the ramping up of Flat Rock later this year and I for one would gladly trade that 4,000/mth MKZ production for more Fusions to dealers. Escape is in th same boat, sales are taking everything produced so O expect that by mid summer, Ford's inventory across several key products could be rather tight even with production increases.. Edited April 2, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I still haven't seen on the roads around here...and none at the dealerships (but then again no local Lincoln dealers :p ) Edited April 2, 2013 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) MKZ 2,360 MKX 2,354 What's everyone whinging about? We knew that the two of these vehicles would be the face of Lincoln until the MKC arrives. Keep in Mind that Dealers are still receiving MKZ and the roll out is not yet completed. sales increased by about 2,000 last month over February which is a positive note. Edited April 2, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 F Series is now 67,513 sales, an excellent result Ford Brand = 229,335 Total Sales = 236, 160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 and I for one would gladly trade that 4,000/mth MKZ production for more Fusions to dealers. If those MKZ's are actually spoken for and simply not yet delivered, that's silly. ATP on the MKZ's would certainly be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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