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Iveco Daily certainly would have been the better product for the US market as it aligns more with Mercedes Sprinter and RWD Ford Transit and has heavier duty versions. However, Iveco is no longer part of Fiat Auto so it would make the arrangement more difficult to pull off.

Iveco is a part of CNH Industrial, whose chairman of the board happens to be Sergio Marchionne, so I'm not sure why that would make the arrangement more difficult to pull off...

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Iveco is a part of CNH Industrial, whose chairman of the board happens to be Sergio Marchionne, so I'm not sure why that would make the arrangement more difficult to pull off...

THX-wasn't the "spin-off" of CNH some sort of exercise that still leaves the Agnelli (sp?) family still the majority owner-of both entities??

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  • 1 month later...

Obama wants tougher regs on medium and heavy trucks by 2015/2016. I hope this doesn't scare Ford out of mediums. Also, I found this wiki article interesting. Does Ford actually make a (lower) class 8?

 

 

 

Ford F-650 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proof that not everything on Wikipedia is rock solid truth....

 

 

In 2012, Ford introduced gasoline and turbocharged gas (CNG) engines for it's duty trucks. The 6.8 L Triton V10 supercharged produces 312 horsepower (233 kW) and 457 foot-pounds force (620 N·m) of torque and is mated to the new 6R140 6-speed manual transmission.

Supercharged?? :headscratch:

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Obama wants tougher regs on medium and heavy trucks by 2015/2016. I hope this doesn't scare Ford out of mediums. Also, I found this wiki article interesting. Does Ford actually make a (lower) class 8?

 

 

 

Ford F-650 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joe- You can get a 750 with a 14,000 lb front axle and a 23,000 lb rear for a GVW of 37,000 lbs and therefore you get the honor of paying Obama 12% FET.

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Perhaps an answer to the "Supercharged!" question a couple of posts back...

 

Ford Power Products offers 6.8L's modified for Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) generator usage, large hybrid gas/electric buses and a supercharged version for hydrogen-powered buses.

 

Information can be found at www.fordracingparts.com

It may be available through Ford Power Products, but it is definitely not available in F-750....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Latest 6 & 7 figures are about the same story. YTD In class 6: Freightliner leads with 40%; Ford, 26; Int'l 21. The rest are way behind. YTD in 7: Freight, 48%; Int'l, 24; PACCAR (KW & Pete), 16; Ford, 7. On a side note, Int'l is in trouble in class 8 The EGR fiasco has cost them. YTD Freight is 37%, PACCAR, 27; Int'l drops to 14! As you can see, Freightliner is dominating all three classes! I just wish Ford would go into class 8, even if it was just vocational. Daimler ( Freightliner), which gave Ford just $300 million in 1997 for Ford's recently designed Louisvilles would experience a reality check like they've never seen! Daimler eventually dismantled it, citing the economy! BULL!. What it did was -- and this was the real plan -- it got medium and heavy truck buyers out of the Ford loyalty syndrome and shut down the Ford pipeline of innovation, ideas, products etc.! Destroying something is a lot easier than building/rebuilding it. Look at Cadillac................and Lincoln! Selling class 8 -- and previously farm tractor -- was also going to be good for shareholders! NONSENSE! It did nothing!

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Ford got out of Class 8 because of Jacque Nasser. Paraphrasing, he said, "We are making less than 5% ROI on Class 8. We can do better than that by putting the money in the bank !"

 

...and JACques nASSer is where these days?? Not in the glass palace for sure....From Wikipedia;

 

 

Following his career with Ford Motor Company, Nasser joined One Equity Partners, the private investment arm of JPMorgan Chase. There, he led a number of deals, including the sale of Polaroid Corporation. In addition to chairing the Board of BHP, Nasser serves on the Board of British Sky Broadcasting, and is on the International Advisory Council of Allianz.

 

Thank GOD that douche is long gone....now Ford is focusing on their core products..which is Ford cars and TRUCKS!!! (including Class 8) Instead of buying more car companies to satisfy your desire of being seen in something more than "just a Lincoln" when you were chauffeured around town.

Edited by twintornados
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...and JACques nASSer is where these days?? Not in the glass palace for sure....From Wikipedia;

 

 

Thank GOD that douche is long gone....now Ford is focusing on their core products..which is Ford cars and TRUCKS!!! (including Class 8) Instead of buying more car companies to satisfy your desire of being seen in something more than "just a Lincoln" when you were chauffeured around town.

A sad chapter in Ford history-just how that clown got as far as he did. I always felt Sir Alex was his godfather. And the one thing I remember about Sir Alex, was a quote attributed to him when he supposedly looked at what I called the ugly "catfish Taurus (96?) and when shown the initial design, dictated it should be more "Ovid". No doubt IMO, the ugliest Ford ever built.

 

A "two-fer" for Sir Alex- ruined the Taurus, and championed the career of Jac the Knife.

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When you step back and look at it, the decision to drop the heavies and move the Superduty pickups into that plant paid off really big. Sort of like what AO Smith did when they shed their automotive operations (including their frame business) - gave up a whole lot of low margin business and ended up with higher earnings and better profitability.

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In retrospect, the beating that class 8 took (and to a lesser extent classes 6 & 7) through 2009 would have probably have had Ford dropping the 8s and possibly 6s & 7s as a part of One Ford. But at least the Blue Diamond JV kept the F650 and F750 from being too much of a distraction and a drag on earnings.

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Nasser was right about the 5% margins, but his solution was perhaps not the best one.

 

You mean car company shouldn't be in the UK speculative real estate business and giving computers to employees instead designing a new Taurus was a bad use of capital?

Edited by bzcat
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I agree, even if Ford had stayed with the HN80 heavy trucks I think without question they would have been out of that market by 2009 one way or another. Yes, Ford was still making 5% on the heavies in 1996, but how much were they making on the Super Duties when KTP switched over? Probably a lot more that either the heavies or the speculative UK real estate market!

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I disagree. When Ford redesigned the HN80's in 1996/1997, Navistar and Daimler knew they were in trouble. Somebody had to do something.and fast! The new redesigns would have crushed them! Enter Daimler and the $300 million steal! I want to see those guys squirm!

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Don't worry, Freightliner did plenty of squirming over that guaranteed buy-back program a few years later. Also remember that Sterling (Ford heavy truck under Freightliner) was ultimately unsuccessful.

 

I really think Ford was looking for a way out of heavy duty before the first HN80 was even sold. Freightliner was very interested in HN80 because of Ford's strength in vocational heavy trucks, an area that Freightliner was weak in. From my perspective, it did not seem to me that Freightliner scammed Ford at all, Ford just wanted out of the business so they could convert KTP to produce the Super Duty.

 

Freightliner put a lot of effort into Sterling. They improved the dealer network, worked to improve the Sterling trucks, put particular emphasis on the vocational models, and expanded the option list. It is true they de-emphasized the over-the-road models, as Freightliner had a good lock on that market at the time.

 

My personal experience with the HN80 was limited, but I think I can say with some confidence that neither Freightliner or International would have been crushed by them. Lost a few sales maybe, but that truck wasn't no Peterbilt, that's for sure.

 

I wonder if Bob Rosadini remembers that Dodge Bighorn and Super-CNT models. Their story is very similar to the HN80 in some ways, though Chrysler simply shut the doors on their heavy truck operation instead of selling it.

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Nasser was right about the 5% margins, but his solution was perhaps not the best one.

All of his "solutions" were elaborate work arounds of a broken Ford that wasn't concentrating on making its core business its strength.

To me, it just seemed like he was playing inside out and creating more disruption in the process, trying to leap past the problems at Ford

by creating a whole new business unit that had the potential to be a large profit earner...

 

All water under the bridge now but you just wonder about the times, the over complication of Nasser days all swept away by the clarity of purpose One Ford Mulally.

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Don't worry, Freightliner did plenty of squirming over that guaranteed buy-back program a few years later. Also remember that Sterling (Ford heavy truck under Freightliner) was ultimately unsuccessful.

 

I really think Ford was looking for a way out of heavy duty before the first HN80 was even sold. Freightliner was very interested in HN80 because of Ford's strength in vocational heavy trucks, an area that Freightliner was weak in. From my perspective, it did not seem to me that Freightliner scammed Ford at all, Ford just wanted out of the business so they could convert KTP to produce the Super Duty.

 

Freightliner put a lot of effort into Sterling. They improved the dealer network, worked to improve the Sterling trucks, put particular emphasis on the vocational models, and expanded the option list. It is true they de-emphasized the over-the-road models, as Freightliner had a good lock on that market at the time.

 

My personal experience with the HN80 was limited, but I think I can say with some confidence that neither Freightliner or International would have been crushed by them. Lost a few sales maybe, but that truck wasn't no Peterbilt, that's for sure.

 

I wonder if Bob Rosadini remembers that Dodge Bighorn and Super-CNT models. Their story is very similar to the HN80 in some ways, though Chrysler simply shut the doors on their heavy truck operation instead of selling it.

Yes, Freightliner spent big on Sterling. They even set up a large separate engineering center in Ohio to seriously go after heavy vocational. I know the guy who headed up that operation and almost signed on with them. And all for naught, Timing was bad as sales in the whole segment were going down, and with everyone else in the segment trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. After a few years of spending big, Sterling cut back the engineering center to minimal staffing to stem the bleeding, eventually pulling it all back to corporate HQ. And Ford could have done no better, HN80 or no. I doubt that they would have gone to the effort or expense that Freightliner did with Sterling. Instead they cashed in on the Superduty pickups and made a bundle.

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