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Joe771476

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Oh I'm with you for sure.  It's just we obviously haven't seen it yet.  And I don't know if the Mediums would follow any sort of normal refresh schedule to predict a potential redesign.

If they follow the E-Series schedule, I'd say the Mediums will be around in their current form until doomsday...

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Combining E-series and F-650 cabs may make sense if you are designing a new truck. But Ford is clearly not going to spend the money to design a new truck. Ford's customers don't care E-series is ancient... they just want everything to stay the same so they don't have to invest in new tooling for whatever they are selling (cargo box, shuttle bus, ambulance, motor home etc)

 

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39 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Combining E-series and F-650 cabs may make sense if you are designing a new truck. But Ford is clearly not going to spend the money to design a new truck. Ford's customers don't care E-series is ancient... they just want everything to stay the same so they don't have to invest in new tooling for whatever they are selling (cargo box, shuttle bus, ambulance, motor home etc)

 

You'd think eventually it'll become so old that it'll have to change, though.  I'm surprised they've not tried to give it (E-series) a new grille insert to match the lineup.  But guess they don't care.

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How old is too old? I mean the basic structure of E-series cutaway cab is nearly 40 45 years old now. It never really changed since 1983 1975 when Ford moved the model to body on frame design. I think we went past the "too old" stage when Bill Clinton was president. Now it is in the "so perfect it never needs to change" phase... 🤣 The last time it had what we'd consider a "mid cycle" update was 1992 when it got all new body panels (but still the same basic body shell and chassis).

Since there are no crash test safety issue, there is no real reason to replace the cab as long as there are no changes to the chassis. Ford has been able to continue to update the drivetrain to keep up with emissions and customer expectations so I've come around to the view that Ford will never completely redesign the E-series. I mean they have done it since 1983 1975 so why start now?

 

Edited by bzcat

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2 minutes ago, bzcat said:

How old is too old? I mean the E-series cutaway cab is nearly 40 years old now. It never really changed since 1983 when Ford moved the engine out from under the seat. I think we went past the "too old" stage when Bill Clinton was president. Now it is in the "so perfect it never needs to change" phase... 🤣

Since there are no crash test safety issue, there is no real reason to replace the cab as long as there are no changes to the chassis. Ford has been able to continue to update the drivetrain to keep up with emissions and customer expectations so I've come around to the view that Ford will never completely redesign the E-series. I mean they have done it since 1983 so why start now?

 

1983 "Square E" dates back to 1975...the "Big E" was re-designed to the current body style in 1992 for a more "aerodynamic" look

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You are right... 1975. So the same chassis and cab has been around for 44 years already.

The 1992 update was just to give it a more aero look. There was no change to the cab structure or chassis.

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I stood up close and personal to a new International medium duty at Nutmeg International in Hartford CT.  Nothing breath taking!  But as i drove up further to where the 10 bay Brainard Ford Truck garage once resided, I saw a sign for Five Star Fire Apparatus with a smaller Freightliner sign.  The only fire truck I saw was a Harwich pumper which I think is from Massachusetts, right Bob?

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6 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I stood up close and personal to a new International medium duty at Nutmeg International in Hartford CT.  Nothing breath taking!  But as i drove up further to where the 10 bay Brainard Ford Truck garage once resided, I saw a sign for Five Star Fire Apparatus with a smaller Freightliner sign.  The only fire truck I saw was a Harwich pumper which I think is from Massachusetts, right Bob?

For sure Joe.I should take a picture of their station.  Architectural masterpiece.  So what brand of pumper do these guys represent?  In the old days when I was driving up 91 I would take the exit and swing through Brainerd /Interstate's yard to check out inventory.  Also when the Bluediamonds went into production I pulled into Nutmeg one afternoon and recorded spring hangar casting numbers on a 4400 -went down the street and matched hangar nos. on a new 750-they were identical.

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That's funny Bob, because when I checked out underneath the chassis on some Sterlings back around 1998, there were still Ford stampings on some chassis parts!  Meanwhile I'm having a hard time deciding where to post certain info because we have this thread, Bob's Ford Otosan thread, and the F600 thread!   I'll try to keep the class 8 stuff in Bob's and the medium duty stuff in this or F600 thread.  Decisions, decisions, decisions!

Edited by Joe771476

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That was pretty impressive.  Amazing detail. 

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All I can say is WOW!

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The other night I bumped into a guy who is working on the 10R140 !  Don't get your shorts in a bundle, but they are having some manufacturing problems.  I don't think they are big issues, but it is clearly more than a few weeks before it will be in full production.

Related, he also mentioned there is "little brother" to the 10R80.  The 10R60.  All are being made at Livonia.

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There are a good dozen videos on youtube of walkarounds of various late model year Ford medium duty trucks.  However this is the best one I've seen so far and finally it has a dump body worthy of state DOT's consideration, ASSuming that it can be fitted with a sander/salter AND also carry the load of sand/salt!  And I think this has been answered by Bob or 7M3, but how about a refresher course guys!!

F-650/F-750 Super Duty Review: Ford's Medium Duty Truck - YouTube

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7 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

There are a good dozen videos on youtube of walkarounds of various late model year Ford medium duty trucks.  However this is the best one I've seen so far and finally it has a dump body worthy of state DOT's consideration, ASSuming that it can be fitted with a sander/salter AND also carry the load of sand/salt!  And I think this has been answered by Bob or 7M3, but how about a refresher course guys!!

F-650/F-750 Super Duty Review: Ford's Medium Duty Truck - YouTube

Joe-my opinion and a buck 5 will get you any size coffee at Cumberland Farms but I think the lack of a diesel/trans option other than the PowerStroke/Torqueshift is hurting.   the 14,000 lb max front axle also may be a problem for those agencies that mount heavy power angle plows and wings.  Ford doesn't even seem to be getting the "utility type class 6 and 7 trucks business that they used to get.  International and F'liner own that business today IMO.

By the way, that video you posted was done by a dealer-not bad but again, they are using "lame" Ford footage- the orange crew cab tractor pulling a beverage side loader!

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Well Hino is not afraid to jump in

 

Hino strives for a piece of the Class 8 truck market

Brian Straight, Freight Waves  /  March 28, 2019

COLUMBUS, Indiana. It’s been about 50 years since a truck maker has successfully entered the Class 8 market in North America and lasted, said Dominik Beckman, director of marketing and dealer operations forHino Trucks. So what makes Hino think it can do that now?

“We still view ourselves as an emerging player,” says Beckman, despite the fact that Hino has been selling trucks in the U.S. for 30 years.

Beckman said the company has earned 15 percent overall market share in the medium-duty segments, selling 14,492 units in 2018. That market share is 17 percent in Class 4, 31 percent in Class 5 cabover diesel, and increased 10 percent in Class 6, where Penske, Ryder and Enterprise purchase 38 percent of all vehicles.

Growth in these segments are being driven by last-mile, Beckman said, as Hino trucks come off the assembly line as chassis that are then outfitted with a wide array of bodies.

Opportunity exists in Class 7 and Class 8, Beckman believes, and Hino is looking to prove that out. The company is no stranger to heavy duty trucks. Part of Toyota, Hino sells Class 8 vehicles in many global markets. The new trucks in America will launch later this year. Orders will be taken starting in May.

The XL Series will be offered in the Class 7 XL7 straight truck or the Class 8 XL8 tractor configuration. Both will be powered by Hino’s A09 turbo diesel, 8.9 liter inline 6-cylinder engine.

The trucks will be come in various configurations, ranging from a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 33,000 to 60,000 lbs. and gross combined weight rating (GCWR) up to 66,000 lbs. The engine can produce up to 360 horsepower and 1,150 lbs.-ft. torque. Wheel base options include configurations up to 304 inches. Tandem axle is also an option.

The truck will be built at Hino’s new Mineral Springs, West Virginia factory, a 1-million square-foot facility opening this year.

Inside the truck, driver comfort was considered. Model-year 2020 vehicles will include an air-ride cab and driver’s seat, hands-free Bluetooth audio/calling, steering wheel controls, LED headlights, cruise control, and air conditioning will all be standard equipment. The vehicles will come with HinoWatch 24/7 roadside assistance and HinoCare maintenance programs.

Hino’s telematics solution, Hino Insight, will also be available. Hino Insight Telematics carries a one-year complimentary subscription, while Insight Remote Diagnostics and Insight Case Management are complimentary for five years.

The Hino Insight package offers customers up to a 30 percent reduction idle time, 25 percent reduction in fuel costs, and 20 percent increase in fleet utilization through its data insights, Beckman noted. Since being introduced in 2017, more than 40,000 Hino trucks have been sold with the Insight package.

Beckman also said that Hino will added extended cab and crew cab configurations of the XL series as well as a heavier front axle option for snow plow applications. Those updates will be formally announced at the North American Commercial Vehicle show in Atlanta this fall. The company will also give its Class 4-5 cabovers a makeover for the 2021 model year.

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Image 1.jpg

 

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Interesting on the Hino 7s and 8s. And to the F650/F750 for the municipal market, it is a non starter until a heavier front axle is available. For the beating they take around here the price of admission is an 18Kto 20K front axle. Stouter engine and transmission combo would also help. For many municipal trucks around here the mantra is that if it doesn't have an Allison, we don't want it.

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Yeah, if Ford doesn't enter class 8 soon, they are going to have less credibility than Hino!  And that's VERY sad!

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14 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

From the article:
 

Quote

These sales figures are comprised of the Ford F-650 and Ford F-750 Heavy Trucks, and do not include Ford F-Series sales such as the F-150, F-250, F-350 or F-450.

What happened to F-550 sales?

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

From the article:
 

What happened to F-550 sales?

My guess is oversite on someone's part.  If 550 sales were in that number, they would be much higher.  If I'm wrong and they are included, class 6 and 7 will be history.

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10 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

My guess is oversite on someone's part.  If 550 sales were in that number, they would be much higher.  If I'm wrong and they are included, class 6 and 7 will be history.

I would agree that it is likely an oversight.....550 is aluminum cab and not built at Avon Lake so it would not be included in the "Heavy Truck" (though Ford calls them medium)....my question going forward is where will F-600 be built? Cabs built at Kansas City or Michigan Tuck and shipped to Avon Lake for final assembly on a slightly de-rated F-650 chassis?

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yeah, those numbers I believe are mediums, judging from HDT mag figures I've seen over the years.

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

I would agree that it is likely an oversight.....550 is aluminum cab and not built at Avon Lake so it would not be included in the "Heavy Truck" (though Ford calls them medium)....my question going forward is where will F-600 be built? Cabs built at Kansas City or Michigan Tuck and shipped to Avon Lake for final assembly on a slightly de-rated F-650 chassis?

F450 and F550 chassis cabs are built at Avon Lake with the MDT.  I'm sure the F600 will be there as well.

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