Jump to content
  • Custom Search


Joe771476

New light & medium duty news

Recommended Posts

Interesting that F-Series Super Duty gets the 10 speed with the improved engine options, but move to Medium Duty and they still have the 6 speed....wondering why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

I wasn't aware there were mistakes and that it had been corrected/updated. Clearly I didn't see the updated production schedule. I won't be buying the commercial vehicles either but am still excited to see what are coming out to compete in the commercial market.

Well if you ask certain members around here 

*cough* rperez *cough*

all fleet/commercial sales are a very very bad thing 100% of the time 

 

Me personally it just doesnt excite me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Interesting that F-Series Super Duty gets the 10 speed with the improved engine options, but move to Medium Duty and they still have the 6 speed....wondering why?

It's probably because they haven't developed a 10 speed strong enough to handle loads seen from class 6/7 and the 6 speed is more than capable right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder why they kept the old SD cab on Medium Duty?

Edited by Steve557

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Steve557 said:

Wonder why they kept the old SD cab on Medium Duty?

Because it's a refresh so there's no reason to change it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Because it's a refresh so there's no reason to change it 

Seems it would be cheaper to replace a cab in limited production with the one used extensively on other products. Makes Ford look cheap IMO also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Steve557 said:

Seems it would be cheaper to replace a cab in limited production with the one used extensively on other products. Makes Ford look cheap IMO also.

No, cheap is shipping off 70% of the Stamping work for both of 2 all new models to a supplier. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

The Silverado 6500 has Ford nervous!  F-600 is a good move even though it's still a little under the 6500's max. GVW..  The only problem with it is I see it eating a lot of F-650 sales, and if that happens too much I can see the 650/750 going away.  Also of interest is it seems Ford is going straight to the 2021 650/750, so the earlier rumors were sort of true, there won't be a 2020 medium duty.  

Not sure I get what you are saying.  the GM is a 22,000 lb GVW.  This new F-600 is 22,000 lb gvw.  the 650 is up to 26,000 lb gvw.  What I want to see is what is the frame on this F-600.  GM/International make a big point about their superior frame.  If this "F-600" is a 550 with 19.5's with a higher tire rating and maybe heavier front and rear axle ratings it had better be a lot less costly than the GM/Internationals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

No, cheap is shipping off 70% of the Stamping work for both of 2 all new models to a supplier. 

Doesn’t have much to do with cab style changes? 

Sounds like a business decision to me. 

Edited by Steve557

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Not sure I get what you are saying.  the GM is a 22,000 lb GVW.  This new F-600 is 22,000 lb gvw.  the 650 is up to 26,000 lb gvw.  What I want to see is what is the frame on this F-600.  GM/International make a big point about their superior frame.  If this "F-600" is a 550 with 19.5's with a higher tire rating and maybe heavier front and rear axle ratings it had better be a lot less costly than the GM/Internationals.

Silverado 6500 tops out at 23,500 GVW., so the F-600 is 1,500 under.  Of course we don't know what unladen is.  Looks like all the F-600 is is a F-550 with different tires.  Not sure on price, the Silverado mediums looked price competitive across the board, but you don't know 'til you spec one out.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Silverado 6500 tops out at 23,500 GVW., so the F-600 is 1,500 under.  Of course we don't know what unladen is.  Looks like all the F-600 is is a F-550 with different tires.  Not sure on price, the Silverado mediums looked price competitive across the board, but you don't know 'til you spec one out.  

ok thx-all the articles I have read said 22,000 was max.  Fake news!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's probably because they haven't developed a 10 speed strong enough to handle loads seen from class 6/7 and the 6 speed is more than capable right now. 

Ford the record, GM's new medium duty trucks use the 6 speed Allison, not the new 10 speed Allison in the 2020 HD pickups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Ford the record, GM's new medium duty trucks use the 6 speed Allison, not the new 10 speed Allison in the 2020 HD pickups.

I wonder if GM and Ford both decided a 10 speed just isn't suited for that application then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Steve557 said:

Seems it would be cheaper to replace a cab in limited production with the one used extensively on other products. Makes Ford look cheap IMO also.

Agree-not about them looking "cheap", but can't believe that it makes sense to truck aluminum cabs to OAP for 450, 550 and now 600 chassis while they are still cranking out steel cabs for 650/750.   And by the way I have no clue if any cabs are assembled at OAP be they steel or aluminum.  Are both trucked to OAP from KTP??  Anyone have an opinion- Fuzzy- I know you don't work at OAP but you seem to understand the stamping world??

In any case I was thinking we might see a new purpose built cab to cover the entire OAP Super Duty line as well as with modifications a replacement for the old E series cab structure.  Oh well maybe 2022?  

My guess is Hackett cut the budget so that the Train Station can have the finest interiors to create the proper mood for the new breed of employees that will be flocking to sign up at the new site.😎

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I wonder if GM and Ford both decided a 10 speed just isn't suited for that application then.

Well the GM/International truck will have a selling point- a true truck transmission Allison.   As for the 10 speed Ford, I'm sure it is a great transmission for class 1-5.

Anything above 26,000 lbs GVW?  The Ford press release makes the point that no components were carried over from the 6 speed when the 10 was designed.  AND it is only 3 pounds heavier!  Uhh-"show me the beef" as I believe the Wendy add used to say.  Brilliant engineering and choice of materials right?  

I myself would not want to prove that point in a 750 that could carry a 37000 pd GVW plate!.

I think Ford learned a lot from the 6.0/6.4 fiasco.  Ford can't afford another disaster like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Well the GM/International truck will have a selling point- a true truck transmission Allison.   As for the 10 speed Ford, I'm sure it is a great transmission for class 1-5.

Anything above 26,000 lbs GVW?  The Ford press release makes the point that no components were carried over from the 6 speed when the 10 was designed.  AND it is only 3 pounds heavier!  Uhh-"show me the beef" as I believe the Wendy add used to say.  Brilliant engineering and choice of materials right?  

I myself would not want to prove that point in a 750 that could carry a 37000 pd GVW plate!.

I think Ford learned a lot from the 6.0/6.4 fiasco.  Ford can't afford another disaster like that.

The half ton 10 speed is very close in length and weight to the 6 speed it replaces and that handles 510 ft/lbs in the Raptor/ Limited and 650 ft/lbs in the Camaro ZL1.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MY93SHO said:

The half ton 10 speed is very close in length and weight to the 6 speed it replaces and that handles 510 ft/lbs in the Raptor/ Limited and 650 ft/lbs in the Camaro ZL1.

 

Understood what the specs are.  I'm not an expert but does the term "duty cycle" apply here?  Does a power train with a given torque rating respond the same when it is moving say a 3500 lb vehicle  vs a 37,000 lb vehicle or a GCW of 50,000 pds.?? 

Or better question, is the projected durability the same in both applications??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one am very sorry to see the 6R140 is gone from everything but the 650/750.  That transmission is dead reliable. 

The weight savings of the 10 speed probably cane from that spiffy plastic oil pan!

Edited by 7Mary3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Agree-not about them looking "cheap", but can't believe that it makes sense to truck aluminum cabs to OAP for 450, 550 and now 600 chassis while they are still cranking out steel cabs for 650/750.   And by the way I have no clue if any cabs are assembled at OAP be they steel or aluminum.  Are both trucked to OAP from KTP??  Anyone have an opinion- Fuzzy- I know you don't work at OAP but you seem to understand the stamping world??

In any case I was thinking we might see a new purpose built cab to cover the entire OAP Super Duty line as well as with modifications a replacement for the old E series cab structure.  Oh well maybe 2022?  

My guess is Hackett cut the budget so that the Train Station can have the finest interiors to create the proper mood for the new breed of employees that will be flocking to sign up at the new site.😎

I actually don't know where the OHAP cabs come from. The 450 and 550 cabs are the same as the 250/350 cabs as far as I know (all aluminum) and we have a supplemental roof rail line at MAP North Stamping. I'm pretty sure everything that we make there goes to Kentucky and not Ohio though. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I actually don't know where the OHAP cabs come from. The 450 and 550 cabs are the same as the 250/350 cabs as far as I know and we have a supplemental roof rail line at MAP North Stamping. I'm pretty sure everything that we make there goes to Kentucky and not Ohio though. 

THx- so that would say KTP must assemble cabs which are shipped complete or at best semi complete to OAP?  Wow-thats a lot of logistics cost IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

THx- so that would say KTP must assemble cabs which are shipped complete or at best semi complete to OAP?  Wow-thats a lot of logistics cost IMO

I honestly couldn't tell you. Nobody outside of those who work at OHAP and a group of related engineers knows what goes on there. It's almost as secretive as the Pilot Plant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I honestly couldn't tell you. Nobody outside of those who work at OHAP and a group of related engineers knows what goes on there. It's almost as secretive as the Pilot Plant. 

For sure- I've posted on several occasions seeking info from any one who worked at OHAP (note-I finally got correct designation for Avon Lake) and have never received a response.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that Ford continues to invest in E-Series with updates to dash, tele-metrics and the new 7.3L V8 tells me that E-Series will be as close as we'll ever get to a "low cab forward" truck in the Ford line which, I personally don't have issue with. E-Series is a good, enduring design that deserves the updates...what I would really like to see Ford do is to bring back the E-550 as a great, cost effective way to engage the likes of Izuzu, Iveco, Hino, and other low cab forward entrants in the market...hell, create an E-600 for the same reason you created F-600...more capability in a package that fits in smaller areas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×