theoldwizard Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'd be happier if Ford either A) put the 3.7 in the E-series cutaway B) sped up the phase out of the E-series cutaway. A "base" 3.7L would be underpowered in a F350/450 and I am pretty sure an EcoBoost 3.5L won't fit Why speed up the phase out if they are selling adequate volume to make a profit ? Part of it is to keep people employed at Ohio Assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 6.8L 2V is ONLY available in E-Series. 6,8L 3V is ONLT available in F-Series That's more commonality than the 5.4L has with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) That's more commonality than the 5.4L has with anything. except for the Pistons, valves and shared tooling with the 6.8. Edited November 30, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 A "base" 3.7L would be underpowered in a F350/450 and I am pretty sure an EcoBoost 3.5L won't fit Why speed up the phase out if they are selling adequate volume to make a profit ? Part of it is to keep people employed at Ohio Assembly. E-series, not the F-series. the 3.7 would be fine in a E-350 cutaway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) except for the Pistons, valves and shared tooling with the 6.8. Clearly there is a cost advantage to Ford in using the 6.8L V10. Or do you think that Ford dropped the 5.4L just to spite you? And the 3.7L would almost certainly be under-powered in a 12,000+ GVWR vehicle, regardless of whether its name starts with F, E, or T Edited November 30, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 E-series, not the F-series. the 3.7 would be fine in a E-350 cutaway. Hello engine rebuild at 25k 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 6.8L 2V is ONLY available in E-Series. 6,8L 3V is ONLT available in F-Series Umm, I hate to dispute you OldWizard, but, if my memory serves, the 2V was phased out in all applications in 2005, save for some low volume specialty stuff. I'm sure it wasn't used in the F53 Motorhome chassis after that point as I know three different people that E-450/E-550 based Class C motorhomes that have 3V 6.8L V-10s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Hello engine rebuild at 25k Consider that the GVRW (?) of the T350SD with the 3.7 is 10,360, the Lowest on the E350 DRW is 11,500. I cannot foresee that there wold any more durability issues on the E-series than on the T-series, especially since the E-series with the 200lbs lighter V6 and 6 speed transmission. My point is why buy a V10 if you don't need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Umm, I hate to dispute you OldWizard, but, if my memory serves, the 2V was phased out in all applications in 2005, save for some low volume specialty stuff. I'm sure it wasn't used in the F53 Motorhome chassis after that point as I know three different people that E-450/E-550 based Class C motorhomes that have 3V 6.8L V-10s.Better check under the hood of those E350/450 chassis ! Edited December 2, 2015 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 My point is why buy a V10 if you don't need it? Why buy an E350/450 when you don'y need it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Back to the KTP expansion news............ This raises a lot of questions. First and foremost, a 50% increase in manpower? That says to me they are either going to blow GM and Dodge away with existing vehicles or they will add a new vehicle. Or is the overtime at KTP totally out of control? Wishful thinking on blowing the competition away by that much. As for another product, given the move of mediums to Ohio, (OAP) and the fact that OAP is currently underutilized, not likely that any new vehicle would be added to KTP. In fact, all of the news I have read mentions 250 , 350, Expedition and Navigator. No specific mention of 450 and 550. I could see the 450 dually pick up remaining at KTP, but it seems logical to me that 450 -550 chassis mprph into some sort of vehicle based on some 650/750 cab structure-and a move to OAP. Keep in mind, GM is about to get back into class 4 and 5 with Navistar. My bet is that truck will not be derived off a Silverado pick up but rather will be more "medium duty" as were the old 4500/5500 GM's before they pulled the plug. Compare an old 5500 GM with an F-550 chassis. the Ford clearly showed its pick up roots while the 5500 was much more substantial-from its tilting hood assembly to the heavier running gear-in spite of the fact they both had the same GVW ratings. There has to be a lot more to this than we are told 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Consider that the GVRW (?) of the T350SD with the 3.7 is 10,360, the Lowest on the E350 DRW is 11,500. I cannot foresee that there wold any more durability issues on the E-series than on the T-series, especially since the E-series with the 200lbs lighter V6 and 6 speed transmission. My point is why buy a V10 if you don't need it? How many work trucks have you been exposed to as an employee or fleet manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Why buy an E350/450 when you don'y need it ? what does that mean. How many work trucks have you been exposed to as an employee or fleet manager? I am a fleet manager running 15 5.4 powered E-350s 1-2016 E350 V10, 12 E450 V10s 3 Gillig 10.8L diesels. we are averaging 25,000-40,000 miles per year on each vehicle. Our usage dictates that our buses run lightly loaded a high percentage of the time, we don't blow engines, we blow Transmissions. This notion that I as the person who buys the fuel and pays for the maintenance on this fleet, that I don't know what I am talking about is laughable. Our fleet maintenance budget is $270,000 our fuel budget is $310,000. I am reading our Fleet Fuel report, our V10s are up to 32 cents per mile @ $2.04 per gallon our 5.4s are as low as 19 cents a mile and our Gilligs are 34 cents per mile @ 2.37 per gallon. what you are saying is it is OK to pay up to a 68% penalty in Fuel consumption for the V10? My vision would be to have the 23% improvement in fuel consumption over the 5.4 and 45% over the V10 with the 3.7, and benefit from the Longer service interval of the 3.7 vs the 5.4 or the 6.8. understand we are not looking for a vehilce to last 7-8 years, our focus is on operating costs more than capital costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 what you are saying is it is OK to pay up to a 68% penalty in Fuel consumption for the V10? Again, this is what you wanted. You've got two options: Take the bad with the good, or take the bad with the good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Again, this is what you wanted. You've got two options: Take the bad with the good, or take the bad with the good. Richard why are you so bitter? Is this even necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Richard why are you so bitter? Is this even necessary? I can assure you, I'm not bitter. I'm confused. I can't understand why you thought that the phase out of the E-Series would not affect you, a purchaser of E-Series products. I can't understand why you think that Ford should keep the 5.4L when there is no conceivable business case to do so. Ford isn't running a charity for your benefit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I can assure you, I'm not bitter. I'm confused. I can't understand why you thought that the phase out of the E-Series would not affect you, a purchaser of E-Series products. I can't understand why you think that Ford should keep the 5.4L when there is no conceivable business case to do so. Ford isn't running a charity for your benefit. I understand completely, everything you said makes sense, but when does It preclude my ability to voice my opinion about what I think could have been done, or my dissatisfaction that I can only order V10s? Or this entire thread is based on not fully knowing Ford's Strategy for the replacement of the E-series and for a fleet buyer, it makes it difficult to plan future purchases. I don't think it is confusing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Biker, I'm happy to hear you have firsthand knowledge. I get tired of office workers telling those of us that actually work with trucks what will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Consider that the GVRW (?) of the T350SD with the 3.7 is 10,360, the Lowest on the E350 DRW is 11,500. I cannot foresee that there wold any more durability issues on the E-series than on the T-series, especially since the E-series with the 200lbs lighter V6 and 6 speed transmission. My point is why buy a V10 if you don't need it? Then buy a T350... sounds like you don't need the extra 1,140 lbs in GVWR vs. E350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Then buy a T350... sounds like you don't need the extra 1,140 lbs in GVWR vs. E350. 5.4L GVWR on the E-Series cutaways ran from 11,500 to 14,050* At a minimum, the 5.4L's GVWR was over 10% higher than that of the T-350. That's not chump change. I don't think you could uprate the 3.7L by that much. And that's just to get to the floor of the old E-Series GVWR. *https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2013/13_ESeries_Van_Cutaway_SB_Updates.pdf Edited December 2, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Back to the KTP expansion news............ This raises a lot of questions. First and foremost, a 50% increase in manpower? That says to me they are either going to blow GM and Dodge away with existing vehicles or they will add a new vehicle. Or is the overtime at KTP totally out of control? Wishful thinking on blowing the competition away by that much. As for another product, given the move of mediums to Ohio, (OAP) and the fact that OAP is currently underutilized, not likely that any new vehicle would be added to KTP. In fact, all of the news I have read mentions 250 , 350, Expedition and Navigator. No specific mention of 450 and 550. I could see the 450 dually pick up remaining at KTP, but it seems logical to me that 450 -550 chassis mprph into some sort of vehicle based on some 650/750 cab structure-and a move to OAP. Keep in mind, GM is about to get back into class 4 and 5 with Navistar. My bet is that truck will not be derived off a Silverado pick up but rather will be more "medium duty" as were the old 4500/5500 GM's before they pulled the plug. Compare an old 5500 GM with an F-550 chassis. the Ford clearly showed its pick up roots while the 5500 was much more substantial-from its tilting hood assembly to the heavier running gear-in spite of the fact they both had the same GVW ratings. There has to be a lot more to this than we are told Maybe, but I tend to think the new body shop and the new full size SUV's are probably enough to explain the manpower increase. I also think any additions to the commercial vehicle lineup would likely be sourced at Avon Lake. Let's face it, Ford's full size SUV's have languished for quite some time, and any serious redesign is likely to significantly increase sales! Chevy's upcoming medium truck will likely not be based on the Silverado. The truck will be a JV with Navistar and International's version will be a replacement for the TerraStar. From what I understand, the Chevy and International will have significant differences and GM will be responsible for the cab and powertrain of the Chevy version. Navistar is in the process of redesigning their truck lineup top to bottom and I am hearing a lot of speculation that when the DuraStar is replaced the new truck will also have a class 6/7 Chevy counterpart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Maybe, but I tend to think the new body shop and the new full size SUV's are probably enough to explain the manpower increase. I also think any additions to the commercial vehicle lineup would likely be sourced at Avon Lake. Let's face it, Ford's full size SUV's have languished for quite some time, and any serious redesign is likely to significantly increase sales! Chevy's upcoming medium truck will likely not be based on the Silverado. The truck will be a JV with Navistar and International's version will be a replacement for the TerraStar. From what I understand, the Chevy and International will have significant differences and GM will be responsible for the cab and powertrain of the Chevy version. Navistar is in the process of redesigning their truck lineup top to bottom and I am hearing a lot of speculation that when the DuraStar is replaced the new truck will also have a class 6/7 Chevy counterpart. Well I have my stockholder hat on now. A 50% increase in manpower because you have a new body shop? That is going to build aluminum cabs instead of steel cabs? without a VERY significant increase in sales? Again (my stockholder hat is on!) I would love to see this huge shift to aluminum Super Duties-that lasts until 201? when the alumiunum GM competitors come out? Expedition/Navigator sales are going to go through the roof? Again I hope so. And 7m, you are making my case about the new GM class 4-5's. They will NOT be "heavy one tons". they will be a purpose built medium cab-like the old ones that you have touted many times as an over built truck compared to 450-550-and I have agreed with you on that. I really believe if nothing else, at least the 450 drw chassis and all 550's end up at OAP-with steel cabs or whatever new medium cab may be coming down the road. Question remains, a 50% increase in manpower is very significant. How about it KTP employees- what is this guy missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I am a fleet manager running 15 5.4 powered E-350s ... Sounds like a T350 EcoBoost would make a good replacement for these. ... 12 E450 V10s ... Well they still sell E450s and I am sure someone in the aftermarket can fix you up with a body ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 ....Well they still sell E450s and I am sure someone in the aftermarket can fix you up with a body ! Sportsmobile makes a matching body for E-Series cut-a-way.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Then buy a T350... sounds like you don't need the extra 1,140 lbs in GVWR vs. E350. There isn't a T350 Shuttle bus bodies yet, they are coming but not until the end of the 2016. 5.4L GVWR on the E-Series cutaways ran from 11,500 to 14,050* At a minimum, the 5.4L's GVWR was over 10% higher than that of the T-350. That's not chump change. I don't think you could uprate the 3.7L by that much. And that's just to get to the floor of the old E-Series GVWR. *https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2013/13_ESeries_Van_Cutaway_SB_Updates.pdf We operate on the low end of that scale, the 3.7 would probably work For us. Sounds like a T350 EcoBoost would make a good replacement for these. Well they still sell E450s and I am sure someone in the aftermarket can fix you up with a body ! We will Still buy the E-450s They more expensive to run but meet the needs for Carrying 20+ people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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