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Joe771476

New light & medium duty news

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First, if anybody like Bob R and 7Mary want to give a Ford truck bigwig a piece of their mind, then write to Len Deluca, Director, Ford Commercial Vehicles, 16800 Executive Plaza Drive, Regent Court Building 6N464, Dearborn MI, 48126. Found this address on a Ford truck magazine sent to current truck customers. Also, Work Truck magazine had a 4 page ad for Roush propane conversions showing all the Ford vehicles in which its offered, including stripped chassis, van, F-series and Bluebird Vision school buses usin the V10. It soon will be available in the F650 and Transit. It was an impressive ad. Also, a 5 page ad for Ram Commercial truck appeared. I read a few months ago that Marchione form Fiat was ramping up repair facilities at dealerships to accomodate the commercial truck customer. He offically announced the creation of Ram Commercial Truck this week I believe.

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Joe,

 

Not sure a letter to this guy would be more effective than all the postings that have been done on this site and others. I have to believe there are plenty of Ford people that follow this site and others on a regular basis.

 

As I had previously posted on the Avon Lake thread, MASS DOT has bought a good number of F'Liner tandem SD 114's. Well today I had to go into Boston (Logan) and noticed for the first time some new MASS DOT F'liner M2's working on the Pike. These trucks were ALWAYS 650/750's- bad sign.

 

Also have been seeing a lot of Nissan vans. And while many people like to flame these Nissans as a desperation move to capitalize on underutilized Titan production capacity, I have not heard anything negative about these-to the contrary, from someone who has busted his knuckles working on E series, the serviceability of these things is very good-trucks were designed with maintenance access in mind-at least in this guys opinion.

 

As for Marchione, I do believe he will utilize all of Fiat/Iveco/CNH's resources whenever he can to further Dodge-er Ram's progress. Kind of like "One Ford"-except this guy means it as opposed to it being a slogan.

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I was watching a video on armored cars and was surprised to see a Ram cowl/chassis used! I assume it's no more than a class 5, right? The Internationals shown have 4700 on the cowl so I assume they're also class4/5. The reason I'm surprised is all the Ford cowl/chassis I've seen used for armored cars are medium duty F650's. Of course I assume you can use a medium duty and just call it class 5. I've seen medium duty Hino cabs used for class 5, so I guess it's no big deal. But still I was surprised. The Ram appears at the 1:00 min. mark.

AOL.com Video - Secret Life of Money: Inside Story on Armored Cars

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As for Marchione, I do believe he will utilize all of Fiat/Iveco/CNH's resources whenever he can to further Dodge-er Ram's progress. Kind of like "One Ford"-except this guy means it as opposed to it being a slogan.

 

I recently heard that Fiat (or Chrysler or Ram?) has made a decision not to expand into larger medium and heavy trucks in the U.S.. Even though through Iveco Ram could have offered quite a model range, the costs of starting a new distribution and dealership network and the very competitive nature of the U.S. commercial truck market caused Fiat to reconsider. Fiat may take another look in 5 years. I am still hearing however that Ram commercial dealers will eventually get the Iveco Daily large vans to sell.

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I recently heard that Fiat (or Chrysler or Ram?) has made a decision not to expand into larger medium and heavy trucks in the U.S.. Even though through Iveco Ram could have offered quite a model range, the costs of starting a new distribution and dealership network and the very competitive nature of the U.S. commercial truck market caused Fiat to reconsider. Fiat may take another look in 5 years. I am still hearing however that Ram commercial dealers will eventually get the Iveco Daily large vans to sell.

7m-Your info is not surprising-for sure in terms of class7 and 8. Would not shock me though to see them tweak the 5500 to get it over 19,000. I think sometimes we have a preconceived notion as to what a class 6 frame is supposed to look like. What would it take to beef up a 5500? Perhaps same frame except 120,000 PSI steel nstead of 80,000?

 

They do make a lot of noise about their new "commercial group". and isn't the head of Ram from Mexico? They still building a class 6 in Mexico?

 

And for sure, Sprinter and Transit will have the Fiat version in Ram badges.

 

Speaking of Sprinter, I have noticed more and more of them here in NE sporting a lot of rust! How old would the oldest Sprinter be??

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I had been hearing rumors that Ram was going to take the 5500 into class 6, but nothing ever came of it. Dodge quit buliding mediums in Mexico in 1998. Part of the 'merger of equals', the Germans didn't want any competition from Dodge as they were pushing Freightliner in Mexico at the time.

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7m-Your info is not surprising-for sure in terms of class7 and 8. Would not shock me though to see them tweak the 5500 to get it over 19,000. I think sometimes we have a preconceived notion as to what a class 6 frame is supposed to look like. What would it take to beef up a 5500? Perhaps same frame except 120,000 PSI steel nstead of 80,000?

 

They do make a lot of noise about their new "commercial group". and isn't the head of Ram from Mexico? They still building a class 6 in Mexico?

 

From what I see, the 4500 and 5500 are currently the only Ram light mediums anywhere. Having seen an extra deep frame on a 5500 Ram last fall in Mexico, I can see no barrier to them extending the range into class 6 with a deeper frame - if they choose to. Really, a suitable frame can have the suitable mounting points for the Ram cab added, and they already use the 6.7 Cummins, so they are not that far away from covering the same market as the F 650.

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From what I see, the 4500 and 5500 are currently the only Ram light mediums anywhere. Having seen an extra deep frame on a 5500 Ram last fall in Mexico, I can see no barrier to them extending the range into class 6 with a deeper frame - if they choose to. Really, a suitable frame can have the suitable mounting points for the Ram cab added, and they already use the 6.7 Cummins, so they are not that far away from covering the same market as the F 650.

IFEG-My point exactly-again I assume the current frame is built with 50,000 or maybe 80,000 PSI steel. thjey make it out of 120,000 steel and the frame strength/rating jumps bigtime. and your point on the Cummins 6.7 is also right on- I've had the concern that Ram all of a sudden starts advertising..."Our class 3, 4, 5 diesel is so good, its the only engine Ford uses in its class 6 and 7"

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"Our class 3, 4, 5 diesel is so good, its the only engine Ford uses in its class 6 and 7"

 

Ford has got to federalize that 9 liter DuraTorq or whatever they call it, which Ford Otosan uses. :)

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Ford has got to federalize that 9 liter DuraTorq or whatever they call it, which Ford Otosan uses. :)

I see it a bit different. They need a large spark ignition engine that will run on natural gas. Larger than the 6.8 V10, built strictly for class 6 and above service. Not a converted diesel like the Cummins/Westport, but from the ground up natural gas. The market is headed that way and demand is building. And do not go halfway, offering a natural gas prep package as they do now, but a from the factory, ready to drive of the lot, natural gas powered truck.

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I see it a bit different. They need a large spark ignition engine that will run on natural gas. Larger than the 6.8 V10, built strictly for class 6 and above service. Not a converted diesel like the Cummins/Westport, but from the ground up natural gas. The market is headed that way and demand is building. And do not go halfway, offering a natural gas prep package as they do now, but a from the factory, ready to drive of the lot, natural gas powered truck.

I would agree with both of you. No doubt the nat gas bandwagon is getting bigger but there will still be plenty of areas in the country I would imagine that will remain almost exclusively diesel. There is a need for both in my book-and TODAY-not five years from now. F-liner is a juggernaut that just keeps getting bigger. The longert it takes Ford to get competitive product to market, the harder the battle will be. I went by a big produce distribution center late yesterday and the fleet was in for the day-probably 40 F-liners lined up at the doors-15 years ago most of those would be Fords or Internationals.

 

One other thing on the Duratorque-i can't believe that they would have spent a dime on this engine WITHOUT giving consideration to the world market-at least I hope that is the case.

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I do not mean to say that Ford does not need a good diesel, but they already use the Cummins 6.7, so if they want a larger one, just get the next size larger Cummins. The 9 liter Ford engine would be an unknown quantity here, a Cummins would be an easier sell, it is a known quantity with the fleets in North America.

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I do not mean to say that Ford does not need a good diesel, but they already use the Cummins 6.7, so if they want a larger one, just get the next size larger Cummins. The 9 liter Ford engine would be an unknown quantity here, a Cummins would be an easier sell, it is a known quantity with the fleets in North America.

No argument-but it would be nice from the .."economy of scale" thing if they could produce their own-again assuming the engimneering costs are sunk. and again when you look at the size vehicles they put those motors in, they should handle a class 6,7,baby 8 with no sweat.

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Ford has got to federalize that 9 liter DuraTorq or whatever they call it, which Ford Otosan uses.
Likely not possible without extensive internal redesign.

I see it a bit different. They need a large spark ignition engine that will run on natural gas. Larger than the 6.8 V10, built strictly for class 6 and above service. Not a converted diesel like the Cummins/Westport, but from the ground up natural gas. The market is headed that way and demand is building. And do not go halfway, offering a natural gas prep package as they do now, but a from the factory, ready to drive of the lot, natural gas powered truck.
I have been saying this for some time. Glad to see someone else has come to the same conclusion.

 

A 7.0L version of the "Boss" is still not going to be enough, unless they find a lot more torque and horsepower. They really need something about 8.0L and it needs to be optimized for CNG/LPG only. Demand for bi-fuel will drop off quick as more CNG pumping stations show up.

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Likely not possible without extensive internal redesign.

I have been saying this for some time. Glad to see someone else has come to the same conclusion.

 

A 7.0L version of the "Boss" is still not going to be enough, unless they find a lot more torque and horsepower. They really need something about 8.0L and it needs to be optimized for CNG/LPG only. Demand for bi-fuel will drop off quick as more CNG pumping stations show up.

I completely agree. The Cummins/Westport is inefficient, all that diesel-designed reciprocating mass is useless. Cylinder bore is too large for spark ignition as well.

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Chrysler's head of Ram, (Diaz) has quit to join Nissan. This makes two guys now at Nissan (Conforti from Ford the other one) with US truck marketing knowledge. His replacemenmt is Reid Bigland who according to a knowledgeable heavy truck marketing guy (who posts frequently on the "BigMacktruck" website) was at Freightliner before joining Chrysler.

 

Either way Ford competitors in commercial trucks beef up their truck talent.

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Nissan must be getting ready for some sort of commercial vehicle push. I have been travelling past a Nissan dealer that has a fairly large commercial operation and they are increasing van inventory, and their small van (NV200 I think) is starting to show up. I am seeing more and more of the Nissan big vans, especially high roof versions. Businesses seem to be replacing Sprinters with the Nissan vans, and I see some tradesmen replacing E Series and Chevy Express with the Nissan high roof 3/4 ton units.

 

I am even hearing radio spots for the NV200 comparing it to the Transit Connect (saying the NV200 has more room and better fuel economy). These guys are serious about vans.

Edited by lfeg

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Chrysler's head of Ram, (Diaz) has quit to join Nissan. This makes two guys now at Nissan (Conforti from Ford the other one) with US truck marketing knowledge. His replacemenmt is Reid Bigland who according to a knowledgeable heavy truck marketing guy (who posts frequently on the "BigMacktruck" website) was at Freightliner before joining Chrysler.

 

Either way Ford competitors in commercial trucks beef up their truck talent.

Yeah, how about that. My take, FWIW: Probably a good thing for Ford, and Nissan isn't going to be a threat for a long time, if ever. We will see how this plays out. Yes, Bigland was at Freightliner.

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Yeah, how about that. My take, FWIW: Probably a good thing for Ford, and Nissan isn't going to be a threat for a long time, if ever. We will see how this plays out. Yes, Bigland was at Freightliner.

7m-elaborate-not quite sure how you view this as a positive for Ford. My concern is everything good starts with a good organization. No doubt Dodge numbers improved under Diaz. No doubt F'liner is the goliath of class 7,8. Ford is out of heavy truck "talent" for what 15 years?-excluding the Turk/SA connections.

 

As I see this, knowledgeable truck people have gone to producers other than Ford. Regarding Nissan, as I've said before, on the street, I've heard nothing but good things about the new Nissan vans. Old school like the E series? Yes. but it won't be long and they will have the "old school" market to themselves. 7M-do you hear otherwise as to customer satisfaction/experience with the Nissans?

 

And speaking of "old school", I was in Altech's yard yesterday-probably 30 or 40 heavy E series lined up awaiting buckets. Also probably 30 or so F 350-550's and about 20 class 7/8, mostly M2's with a couple of Binders. The utilities continue to buy.

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I think Diaz was the driving force behind Ram's resurgence, and I had heard that he was very big on commercial vehicles. Not sure about the people taking his place, I guess we will see.......

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Latest print ads that were previously showing medium duties also in vocational magazines are now only showing a Transit Connect, an F 550, and E-series van (not a cutaway). Why no mediums? Hino has lost it's thunder according to latest HDT mag report. Hino YTD share in class 7 is just a little more than half Ford's. In class 6, a third of Ford's. Ford is a solid third in class 6 after Freight and Inter'l. International has taken a huge hit in class 8 apparently due to the emission issue. Freight is at 42 percent, Inter'l at 15! Paccar (Ken and Peter) is at 25, Volvo/Mack matches Inter'l at 15. I see no reason for Paccar to make a class 6 truck; they sold a whopping 6 for the year so far! Western Star is on target for selling 1500 units for the entire year! And Daimler dropped Sterling selling 10K to 15K a year?!

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Latest print ads that were previously showing medium duties also in vocational magazines are now only showing a Transit Connect, an F 550, and E-series van (not a cutaway). Why no mediums? Hino has lost it's thunder according to latest HDT mag report. Hino YTD share in class 7 is just a little more than half Ford's. In class 6, a third of Ford's. Ford is a solid third in class 6 after Freight and Inter'l. International has taken a huge hit in class 8 apparently due to the emission issue. Freight is at 42 percent, Inter'l at 15! Paccar (Ken and Peter) is at 25, Volvo/Mack matches Inter'l at 15. I see no reason for Paccar to make a class 6 truck; they sold a whopping 6 for the year so far! Western Star is on target for selling 1500 units for the entire year! And Daimler dropped Sterling selling 10K to 15K a year?!

Interesting on the ad copy. They were showing a "family" that included 650/750. That made sense- then again, if it made sense, no wonder they dropped it. Coincidentally I was looking at the commercial truck website this morning to see if there were any improvements- Unfortunately, the same non-specific info-nothing thst would make you think they give a rat's ass about medium duty.

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Mack is pushing into medium duty. They now offer a class 7 Granite with a 9L engine. There have been a few sketchy rumors they are looking at other medium duty options.

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