jpd80 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Just a thought here but if Ford was redirecting those temporary critical inspections to Flat Rock, wouldn't it be advantageous to send the MKZs that are bound for the North East and Mid West? That could explain why dealers in Detroit seem to have more MKZ stock than dealers elsewhere.. In any case, that inspection step is ending soon and vehicles will be shipped directly from Hermosillo. Sure, it's another "bad start' but that doesn't mean disaster, just look at Fusion last month, nearly 28,000 sales after being pole axed by recalls and production holds in November -December Edited March 3, 2013 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 511 for the MKT? At least we known MKZ's issue, whats MKTs excuse now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) 511 for the MKT? At least we known MKZ's issue, whats MKTs excuse now ? Ford backed the wrong horse with MKT, the livery market wanted a Town car replacement and a fresh Navigator 5.0 & EB V6 engines would have done. I know that Lincoln wants a change of image but why can't it be different things to different people? MKZ, MKX, MKC and Aviator for retail and LWB MKS Town car and Navigator for livery fleets Edited March 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Ford backed the wrong horse with MKT, the livery market wanted a Town car replacement and a fresh Navigator 5.0 & EB V6 engines would have done.I know that Lincoln wants a change of image but why can't it be different things to different people? MKZ, MKX, MKC and Aviator for retail and LWB MKS Town car and Navigator for livery fleets Why should Lincoln care about serving the livery market? Why is this a big concern? These are not fleet cars and should never be, I would love to see Lincoln out of this business altogether because I think less of every car that is fleeted out as a black taxi, like the MKT. And there is no question the MKT is a flop, has been since day one, they are just trying to burn a few more years off until they get to the next gen Explorer. In reality, the failure of the MKT starts at Ford with the Freestyle/Taurus X/Flex crossover form factor. Lincoln wanted a 7-seater, but Ford made some very bad early decisions on their approach to the 7-seater crossover, so therefore you have a form factor that effectively looked like a dorky station wagon that cost the same as a full-size crossover but had substantially less utility. And it doesn't help that the MKT is really...ugly, and it's expensive ugly. Sure it's a great car that critics love, but it's not appealing to customers. And if you're not going to compensate customers with attractive design or better pricing, it's hard to sell a family utility that lacks utility. The next MKT will certainly be based on the next-gen Explorer, and the Flex will be terminated altogether ahead of the next-gen Explorer and a next-gen 7-seater minivan (possibly the Galaxy?). Edited March 3, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Just a thought here but if Ford was redirecting those temporary critical inspections to Flat Rock,wouldn't it be advantageous to send the MKZs that are bound for the North East and Mid West? That could explain why dealers in Detroit seem to have more MKZ stock than dealers elsewhere.. In any case, that inspection step is ending soon and vehicles will be shipped directly from Hermosillo. Sure, it's another "bad start' but that doesn't mean disaster, just look at Fusion last month, nearly 28,000 sales after being pole axed by recalls and production holds in November -December Common sense alert !!!! I'm sorry, but you have used way too much common sense in this post...................... thusly, you are teetering on the edge of being banned. :D Fordbuyer would be right at home on GMI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 therefore you have a form factor that effectively looked like a dorky station wagon that cost the same as a full-size crossover but had substantially less utility. Short of possibly higher ground clearance to go off roading with (yeah right) how is utility lacking in the MKT and Flex vs say the Explorer...if anything, the Explorer is more limited they they are, due to it being slightly smaller. The only thing the Explorer has over them is the "looks" department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 It's not like they could start pumping Explorers out of OAC without significant investment. The Flex costs are already sunk. A sale is a sale, and I agree without the Flex not every buyer would be a Ford buyer. We love our Flex. Sadly, when it comes time to replace it, if the Flex is gone, it's replacement will probably not be a Ford. The Explorer would have to change substantially by that point for us to consider it. There's a chance we may replace the Flex early (We usually hang on to our cars until they're close to death) with a new Flex when it is clear there will be no more. Actually, we will probably replace our Flex with an Explorer if the Flex is gone. If the Flex is still around when it comes time to replace ours, it will probably be a tough choice between the Flex and Explorer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Might I suggest and Explorer EL, an Explorer with Flex's 119" wheelbase and added interior room? An MKT or Aviator based on that Explorer EL would have significant differentiation compared to MKX but still be marginally smaller than the Navigator, I think such a vehicle would work for Lincoln. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 If Ford thought that an extended wheelbase was importent for the Explorer it would have had it. There will not be an Explorer EL. Extending the length of a unibody vehicle is not trivial, and the incremental sales it may generate (likely less than the Flex) would not be worth it. I waited to see what the Explorer looked like before buying the Flex. If the Ex had the same dimensions as the Flex I still would not buy it. The Ex Sport will eventually replace the Flex at the higher end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 If Ford thought that an extended wheelbase was importent for the Explorer it would have had it. There will not be an Explorer EL. Extending the length of a unibody vehicle is not trivial, and the incremental sales it may generate (likely less than the Flex) would not be worth it. I waited to see what the Explorer looked like before buying the Flex. If the Ex had the same dimensions as the Flex I still would not buy it. The Ex Sport will eventually replace the Flex at the higher end. The Flex is already a long wheelbase Explorer in disguise, bringing it out of the closet and combining it with other explorer sales can only lead to more good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Just a thought here but if Ford was redirecting those temporary critical inspections to Flat Rock,wouldn't it be advantageous to send the MKZs that are bound for the North East and Mid West? That could explain why dealers in Detroit seem to have more MKZ stock than dealers elsewhere.. In any case, that inspection step is ending soon and vehicles will be shipped directly from Hermosillo. Sure, it's another "bad start' but that doesn't mean disaster, just look at Fusion last month, nearly 28,000 sales after being pole axed by recalls and production holds in November -December We don't know that. Someone just posted that there were 17 MKZs sitting on dealer lot in Missouri. And I bet a lot more MKZs were shipped to Southwest than all the way up to Detroit area, Flat Rock or not. The shortage seems to be in MKZ hybrids.I believe MKZ hybrids were close to 40% of total MKZ sales with previous model year. So until hybrids start showing up, I would suspect MKZ sales will have trouble meeting sales goals. Someone posted that of the 50 or so MKZ's at Hines Park, only three are hybrids. I would also imagine the hybrid made up at least 40% of the preorders, and it seems most or all are still waiting for theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We don't know that. Someone just posted that there were 17 MKZs sitting on dealer lot in Missouri. And I bet a lot more MKZs were shipped to Southwest than all the way up to Detroit area, Flat Rock or not. The shortage seems to be in MKZ hybrids.I believe MKZ hybrids were close to 40% of total MKZ sales with previous model year. So until hybrids start showing up, I would suspect MKZ sales will have trouble meeting sales goals. Someone posted that of the 50 or so MKZ's at Hines Park, only three are hybrids. I would also imagine the hybrid made up at least 40% of the preorders, and it seems most or all are still waiting for theirs. I suspect that the mix of hybrid vs gas will decline with the new model significantly as it draw in customers who are looking for a luxury car, not just a hybrid. And well, not sure how you can say the MKZ will or won't meet sales goals when none of us have any idea what those goals are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I suspect that the mix of hybrid vs gas will decline with the new model significantly as it draw in customers who are looking for a luxury car, not just a hybrid. And well, not sure how you can say the MKZ will or won't meet sales goals when none of us have any idea what those goals are. Quit twisting my words. I said until hybrids starting showing up in numbers, sales goals will be hard to meet. Easy to determine Ford's sales goals. Hermosillo is pretty much at full ramp up speed and producing about 1,000/week. The previous generation sold in 3,000-3500 range with hybrids making up about 40-45% of total. So I would imagine Ford would be real happy if they could sell upwards of 4,000/month including hybrid model. I doubt very much if Ford would be happy selling less MKZ's than previous MY if they are producing 1,000/month. Since other Lincoln models sell at much lower rates, Lincoln really needs the MKZ to sell well to make up for low sales numbers from rest of lineup. Until MKC arrives, Lincoln must soldier on with MKZ, MKX, and not much else respective to sales volume. As far as MKZ hybrid goes, I wouldn't be surprised to see it sell in greater numbers than previous one...maybe over 50%. The higher EPA is attractive, and with warmer temps, I would imagine new Fusion hybrid owers will be seeing higher real world fuel mileage numbers, and Ford does price the MKZ hybrid at same price as conventional model. Luxury vehicle buyers like higher fuel mileage numbers too. The last MKZ hybrid sales rate was around 1200/month...wouldn't be surprised to see the 2013 MKZ hybrid do better once they good inventory of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Quit twisting my words. I said until hybrids starting showing up in numbers, sales goals will be hard to meet. Easy to determine Ford's sales goals. Hermosillo is pretty much at full ramp up speed and producing about 1,000/week. The previous generation sold in 3,000-3500 range with hybrids making up about 40-45% of total. So I would imagine Ford would be real happy if they could sell upwards of 4,000/month including hybrid model. I doubt very much if Ford would be happy selling less MKZ's than previous MY if they are producing 1,000/month. Since other Lincoln models sell at much lower rates, Lincoln really needs the MKZ to sell well to make up for low sales numbers from rest of lineup. Until MKC arrives, Lincoln must soldier on with MKZ, MKX, and not much else respective to sales volume. As far as MKZ hybrid goes, I wouldn't be surprised to see it sell in greater numbers than previous one...maybe over 50%. The higher EPA is attractive, and with warmer temps, I would imagine new Fusion hybrid owers will be seeing higher real world fuel mileage numbers, and Ford does price the MKZ hybrid at same price as conventional model. Luxury vehicle buyers like higher fuel mileage numbers too. The last MKZ hybrid sales rate was around 1200/month...wouldn't be surprised to see the 2013 MKZ hybrid do better once they good inventory of them. One reason alone the hybrid will not count for as high a percentage of sales: 2.0 EB. The last gen MKZ didn't offer a fuel-sipper gas engine choice. 3.5 or Hybrid only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 One reason alone the hybrid will not count for as high a percentage of sales: 2.0 EB. The last gen MKZ didn't offer a fuel-sipper gas engine choice. 3.5 or Hybrid only. We will see. We know the new Fusion hybrid is selling super well...better than 2012 hybrid. So I expect the MKZ hybrid to sell better also. In real world driving at least, the EB 2.0 isn't quite the fuel sipper it was expected to be. And in the MKZ, it will be pushing more weight than in Fusion. About 400+ more pounds. The MKZ hybrid is a steal being same price as EB 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We will see. We know the new Fusion hybrid is selling super well...better than 2012 hybrid. So I expect the MKZ hybrid to sell better also. In real world driving at least, the EB 2.0 isn't quite the fuel sipper it was expected to be. And in the MKZ, it will be pushing more weight than in Fusion. About 400+ more pounds. The MKZ hybrid is a steal being same price as EB 2.0. The new Fusion is selling well overall, so I would expect an uptick in hybrid sales. I expect the MKZ hybrid to sell in better numbers also, just not as a better percentage of overall sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 The new Fusion is selling well overall, so I would expect an uptick in hybrid sales. I expect the MKZ hybrid to sell in better numbers also, just not as a better percentage of overall sales. Because there should be a lot more overall MKZ sales than there were before, so they should sell more of both the hybrid and non hybrid. The only real appeal of the old model was the hybrid drivetrain. The new one has so much more to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) We will see. We know the new Fusion hybrid is selling super well...better than 2012 hybrid. So I expect the MKZ hybrid to sell better also. In real world driving at least, the EB 2.0 isn't quite the fuel sipper it was expected to be. And in the MKZ, it will be pushing more weight than in Fusion. About 400+ more pounds. The MKZ hybrid is a steal being same price as EB 2.0. I think that's where MKZ capacity went in the early days, Ford pulled the lever on MKZ last month producing around 4,000 at Hermosillo, so I'd expect that critical inspection program has ended and direct shipments are now happening, Ken Czubay mentioned delivery at 100/day. Edited March 5, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I think that's where MKZ capacity went in the early days, Ford pulled the lever on MKZ last month producing around 4,000 at Hermosillo,so I'd expect that critical inspection program has ended and direct shipments are now happening, Ken Czubay mentioned delivery at 100/day. Ford just announced that the Flat Rock final quality inspection has been extended indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Does anyone know how many C-Max Energi were sold? Total C-Max sales of 3,183 was 25% higher than Prius V... another month where the C-Max beat the V head to head. February 2013: Prius: 11,428 Prius C: 3,148 Prius V: 2,543 Prius (plug-in): 693 Prius Total: 17,812 C-Max: 3,183 Volt 1,626LEAF 653Insight 388CR-Z 381 i-MiEV 337 Edited March 5, 2013 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Ford just announced that the Flat Rock final quality inspection has been extended indefinitely. Excellent! Quality is more important than trying to satisfy those with ADD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) Ford just announced that the Flat Rock final quality inspection has been extended indefinitely. Do you have a link because in the conference call it was supposed to be a five week deal and Ford was about to begin deliveries direct from Hermosillo Edited March 6, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Do you have a link because in the conference call it was supposed to be a five week dealand Ford was about to begin deliveries direct from Hermosillo He's embellishing http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130304/OEM01/303049960/lincoln-may-extend-mich-mkz-inspections#axzz2MjM8TZOs DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. may extend quality inspections of the 2013 Lincoln MKZ at its Flat Rock, Mich., plant even after reaching normal dealer stocking levels on the new luxury sedan by the end of this month. Lincoln officials had previously said the Flat Rock inspections for the MKZ, which is made at Ford's Hermosillo, Mexico, plant, would end about mid-March. "Our goal would be to have all the quality checks at Hermosillo," Ken Czubay, Ford's vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service, said during Ford's February sales conference call last week. But he said Ford would continue the Flat Rock inspections for "as long as it takes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Does anyone know how many C-Max Energi were sold? Total C-Max sales of 3,183 was 25% higher than Prius V... another month where the C-Max beat the V head to head. February 2013: Prius: 11,428 Prius C: 3,148 Prius V: 2,543 Prius (plug-in): 693 Prius Total: 17,812 C-Max: 3,183 Volt 1,626 LEAF 653 Insight 388 CR-Z 381 i-MiEV 337 Also curious to see this, the battle of the plug-ins!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) Ford just announced that the Flat Rock final quality inspection has been extended indefinitely. Which means 'until further notice'. Once the distribution channels of the MKZ have been filled up, Hermosillo should be able manage a car that sells within the 3-4K/month range. Right now they are building far more than sustainable volumes so they are absolutely flooded with quality checks before filling up those channels. Edited March 6, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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