YTD Lincold outsold Infinity

[igor]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showpos...mp;postcount=17

 

EDIT: sorry for the typo in the title ... oh well..

Igor

Edited August 3, 2006 by igor

[DCK]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showpos...mp;postcount=17

 

EDIT: sorry for the typo in the title ... oh well..

Igor

And that is with a lot full of crap, lets see how good they do when they get competitive products. Lincoln has potential but ford isn't investing in it. The big thing for Infiniti is their average buyer is probably 35 years younger than the lincoln average buyer and that is a giant advantage because most lincoln buyers are on their last vehicle in their life time.

[DSenstad]

I think you are thinking of the old Lincolns... how many 70 year olds do you think are buying the Zepher? I would doubt the growth was in the Town car.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

And that is with a lot full of crap, lets see how good they do when they get competitive products. Lincoln has potential but ford isn't investing in it. The big thing for Infiniti is their average buyer is probably 35 years younger than the lincoln average buyer and that is a giant advantage because most lincoln buyers are on their last vehicle in their life time.

THis is like saying Mercury sold more than Mitsubishi. Simply not enough to bring up as a bright spot. When Lincoln outsells Lexus is a small step forward.

[igor]

THis is like saying Mercury sold more than Mitsubishi. Simply not enough to bring up as a bright spot. When Lincoln outsells Lexus is a small step forward.

what are you smoking Ipiddy..

 

Infinity is in the big 5 of volume luxury brands:

BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, Caddy and Infinity ... and now Lincoln is part of the Big 6.

 

Igor

[DCK]

what are you smoking Ipiddy..

 

Infinity is in the big 5 of volume luxury brands:

BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, Caddy and Infinity ... and now Lincoln is part of the Big 6.

 

Igor

I disagree 100%, It is absolutely pathetic that this is good news. Lincoln has hit rock bottom last year, selling far below what they sold in the past, they have a lot full of pure crap and when ford decides to make lincoln competitive like infiniti then lincoln will be a success. How many of lincoln's sales were fleets? Would you deny that Infiniti has a much better vehicles? I figure you would even though anyone under 60 not a ford fanboy would say otherwise. Lincoln/Mercury are both disgraces and hit rock bottom, anyone can see that, ford needs to fix these brands but instead it looks like they will become trim levels. The MKX and MKZ already are, next year the MKS will be Lincolns Ford 500.

[taxman100]

My buddy at work has an Infiniti M-35 - he said he is getting rid of it when the lease is up because it is too "high tech" and has too much gimmicky crap on it. He actually misses his old Park Avenue he had before.

 

He said he doesn't consider it a luxury car, just a high tech car, and would think about a large American sedan if anyone actually built one anymore.

 

Infiniti is not a traditional luxury car - it's a car for technology freaks.

[wescoent]

I disagree 100%, It is absolutely pathetic that this is good news. Lincoln has hit rock bottom last year, selling far below what they sold in the past, they have a lot full of pure crap and when ford decides to make lincoln competitive like infiniti then lincoln will be a success. How many of lincoln's sales were fleets? Would you deny that Infiniti has a much better vehicles? I figure you would even though anyone under 60 not a ford fanboy would say otherwise. Lincoln/Mercury are both disgraces and hit rock bottom, anyone can see that, ford needs to fix these brands but instead it looks like they will become trim levels. The MKX and MKZ already are, next year the MKS will be Lincolns Ford 500.

 

First off, the only Lincoln that sells in any volumes to fleets is the Town Car, and that's still less than 40% fleet (which isn't any more than usual).

 

Mercury, although not currently setting any sales records, but it is more hip and culturally relevant that it has been in the past 20 years, and more importantly, unlike any time in Mercury history, it has purpose and direction.

 

The fact that without significant fleet sales, that Lincoln is beating one of the supposedly hottest luxury brands out there IS significant, further proving that Lincoln's strategy is meaningful and will work. To say that the differences between the MKZ and Fusion, and MKX and Edge amounts to a trim level just speaks volumes about your ignorance of the differences between them. Every successful Lincoln in history was built off a Ford platform. Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

:titanic:

Every successful Lincoln in history was built off a Ford platform. Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine.

:fan:

[DCK]

Mercury, although not currently setting any sales records, but it is more hip and culturally relevant that it has been in the past 20 years, and more importantly, unlike any time in Mercury history, it has purpose and direction.

LOL that is the biggest piece of propaganda i read on this board. YOu can't sit their and lie saying mercury has direction. The only direction mercury has is quickly coming to the point where the sales aren't worth keeping the brand alive. I'll say mercury has potential but ford is simply letting the brand die. They need original products like saturn is getting and not being just a carbon copy of Ford. Let's see is Mercury is around in 2010.

 

The fact that without significant fleet sales, that Lincoln is beating one of the supposedly hottest luxury brands out there IS significant, further proving that Lincoln's strategy is meaningful and will work. To say that the differences between the MKZ and Fusion, and MKX and Edge amounts to a trim level just speaks volumes about your ignorance of the differences between them.

My ignorance is 100% true, the MKZ and MKX are trim levels, once ford offers the 3.5 and all wheel drive on the fusion the mkz looks even more pathetic. The MKX even worst, what does it have over the edge? Lincoln went from the number one selling luxury brand to hardly a contender in 6 short years. Oh yeah their strategy is working!!!!!!! Please just save it. The new buyers of luxury don't want your granpas lincoln or cadillac they want sport sedans that lexus, infiniti, bmw, cadillac, acura, mercedes and audi offer. All while lincoln goes for the old time buyers. Hell lexus already stole what car buyers are left at lincoln with the ES. With what i said with mercury lets look at where lincoln will be in 2010.

 

Only fool would think falling from 1st place to 6th in the luxury field in 6 short years is good. :titanic:

 

Every successful Lincoln in history was built off a Ford platform. Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine.

 

Guess what? The market changed dramatically and lincoln is not following suite, right now lincoln has nothing to that other manufacturers don't have and be it 100 times better. And don't say the town car because that market is drying up faster than gas pricec shooting towards $4 a gallon, showing the market changed.

Edited August 4, 2006 by DCK

[wescoent]

LOL that is the biggest piece of propaganda i read on this board. YOu can't sit their and lie saying mercury has direction. The only direction mercury has is quickly coming to the point where the sales aren't worth keeping the brand alive. I'll say mercury has potential but ford is simply letting the brand die. They need original products like saturn is getting and not being just a carbon copy of Ford. Let's see is Mercury is around in 2010.

My ignorance is 100% true, the MKZ and MKX are trim levels, once ford offers the 3.5 and all wheel drive on the fusion the mkz looks even more pathetic. The MKX even worst, what does it have over the edge? Lincoln went from the number one selling luxury brand to hardly a contender in 6 short years. Oh yeah their strategy is working!!!!!!! Please just save it. The new buyers of luxury don't want your granpas lincoln or cadillac they want sport sedans that lexus, infiniti, bmw, cadillac, acura, mercedes and audi offer. All while lincoln goes for the old time buyers. Hell lexus already stole what car buyers are left at lincoln with the ES. With what i said with mercury lets look at where lincoln will be in 2010.

 

Only fool would think falling from 1st place to 6th in the luxury field in 6 short years is good. :titanic:

Guess what? The market changed dramatically and lincoln is not following suite, right now lincoln has nothing to that other manufacturers don't have and be it 100 times better. And don't say the town car because that market is drying up faster than gas pricec shooting towards $4 a gallon, showing the market changed.

 

Infiniti did EXACTLY what you want Lincoln to do. They developed a unique sports sedan architecture, based all their vehicles on it, and even did a pimped-out luxury SUV. That sure made them relevant! And look where it got them. They can't even outsell the "grandpa" luxury car brand that's nothing but retrimmed Fords. My point was, who's laughing now? Lincoln is targeting high-volume markets at the moment. Entry-level luxury sedans, the best-selling of which is the Lexus ES. Midsized CUVs, the best-selling of which is the Lexus RX. Lincoln doesn't have the money yet to be blowing on a unique architecture yet. Why can't they target their low-cost, high volume segments to rebuild their reputation?

 

And don't tell me the Audi A4 or Acura TL are ANY sportier or purer than the Lincoln MKZ. They are NO different from the Honda Accord and VW Passat than the MKZ is from the Fusion. If you consider a unique interior, unique front and rear design, unique engine, unique suspension tuning, and much more sound deadening material to be a "trim level", you're delusional.

 

Look, it isn't great that Lincoln is in 6th place. Ford made some bad decisions regarding the brand, and now they're on the road to rehab. The fact that they'll probably post a YTD increase in sales over last year, as well as solid and competitive products in the pipeline is good news. And the fact they're ahead of a brand with class-leading entries proves there's not a one size fits all solution to premium cars.

[igor]

If Lincoln is aiming to be US Lexus competitor, tell me why the ES is any better tha nthe MKZ ?

or why the MKS is any worse than Lexus LS ...

or why is MKZ worse than the Acura TXS and TL?

 

there are many kinds of luxury, and while we would all love a BMW beating Lincoln, I do not see how you can claim that anything short of BMW type of uniqueness and performance is useless to notice.

 

Maybe this is unique to US Luxury market, but the way Lincoln seems ot be headed - completely rebodies Ford platforms, is hardly a unique strategy in US ... and if Lexus is any indicatori - it is a successful strategy

 

I will agree , that Linc does need some RWD performance halo vehicles - but I will not call on thier lack and pointe to a complete failure oif the whole brand -

 

The brand was felling for 6 straight years - now it is up and still climbing ... now what is setting the direction .. the previous six years, or the current year? will Linc have to grow sales for 6 years for your to accept that linc has a product people want?

 

BOF is getting quite ridiculous ... stuffing cotton in your ears just to not have - God forbid - accept that Ford might have done something right ...

 

 

Igor

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

If Lincoln is aiming to be US Lexus competitor, tell me why the ES is any better tha nthe MKZ ?

or why the MKS is any worse than Lexus LS ...

or why is MKZ worse than the Acura TXS and TL?

 

there are many kinds of luxury, and while we would all love a BMW beating Lincoln, I do not see how you can claim that anything short of BMW type of uniqueness and performance is useless to notice.

 

Maybe this is unique to US Luxury market, but the way Lincoln seems ot be headed - completely rebodies Ford platforms, is hardly a unique strategy in US ... and if Lexus is any indicatori - it is a successful strategy

 

I will agree , that Linc does need some RWD performance halo vehicles - but I will not call on thier lack and pointe to a complete failure oif the whole brand -

 

The brand was felling for 6 straight years - now it is up and still climbing ... now what is setting the direction .. the previous six years, or the current year? will Linc have to grow sales for 6 years for your to accept that linc has a product people want?

 

BOF is getting quite ridiculous ... stuffing cotton in your ears just to not have - God forbid - accept that Ford might have done something right ...

Igor

What are the prices of Luxury cars. 37.000 retail right. The people Ford are targeting want affordable luxury. Lincoln to be taken seriously as a Luxury car must come to the market with a retail Aston Martin engineered 75 to 100 grand coupe to be taken seriously. Affordable Luxury is going away with the jobs.

[Edstock]

"Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine."

 

AFAIK, the 1960 and the vastly different 1961 Lincoln were both unitized platforms unique to themselves.

[wescoent]

"Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine."

 

AFAIK, the 1960 and the vastly different 1961 Lincoln were both unitized platforms unique to themselves.

 

I'm not sure about the total failure that was the 1960 Lincoln, but the 1961 Lincoln shared its platform with the 1961 Ford Thunderbird. Two classics that will be missed.

[Traveler]

Lincoln can really turn the corner IMO with:

 

- the MKS & MKZ with the 3.5L V6 and optional AWD,

- new engine/transmission for the Navi and Mark LT, and a

- flagship RWD sedan with a class competitive V8.

 

However, I also feel that both Ford and Mercury can benefit from the same. Platform sharing and engine/tranny sharing isn't so bad for the domestic image. Cadillac does it and Lincoln can too. They just have to sell the Lincoln brand to the public.

[wescoent]

What are the prices of Luxury cars. 37.000 retail right. The people Ford are targeting want affordable luxury. Lincoln to be taken seriously as a Luxury car must come to the market with a retail Aston Martin engineered 75 to 100 grand coupe to be taken seriously. Affordable Luxury is going away with the jobs.

 

On the contrary... the affordable luxury segment is EXPLODING thanks to the proliferation of middle-management jobs in this country that young people are demanding recognition for. However, they want to do so through luxury nameplates, hence why Buick and Mercury's traditional market evaporated in the early 1990's.

 

Hence, Mercury needed a direction, which is now targeting urban and suburban sophisticates looking for an affluent-looking car at an affordable price.

[Nels Nelson]

"Lincoln in its history has never had a unique platform to itself, nor a unique engine."

 

AFAIK, the 1960 and the vastly different 1961 Lincoln were both unitized platforms unique to themselves.

 

For the 1958 model year, the Lincoln and Thunderbird switched over to unitized construction and were assembled in a new plant at Wixom. The cowl, firewall and windshield were shared along with other various components.

 

The Thunderbird switched to the body on frame chassis of the full-sized Fords and Mercurys for 1967 model year and the Lincoln switched over for the 1970 model year.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

On the contrary... the affordable luxury segment is EXPLODING thanks to the proliferation of middle-management jobs in this country that young people are demanding recognition for. However, they want to do so through luxury nameplates, hence why Buick and Mercury's traditional market evaporated in the early 1990's.

 

Hence, Mercury needed a direction, which is now targeting urban and suburban sophisticates looking for an affluent-looking car at an affordable price.

Young middle managers want BMW's and Lexus... If U can fit some Lincolns and Merks in there u can say hey were in the affordable luxury market. Used BMWs and Lexus are so premium that a buyer will take a car off lease that when new is out of price range but used with certification and car fax is no brainer. IE BMW 745 new shape you can get for under 50000. Lexus what make and what model. Benz , Audi, Infinity, CAddy, what do you have that competes with our new Lincolns. We have Image.......................................... :fan: :fan:

[Michael Reynolds]

Young middle managers want BMW's and Lexus... If U can fit some Lincolns and Merks in there u can say hey were in the affordable luxury market. Used BMWs and Lexus are so premium that a buyer will take a car off lease that when new is out of price range but used with certification and car fax is no brainer. IE BMW 745 new shape you can get for under 50000. Lexus what make and what model. Benz , Audi, Infinity, CAddy, what do you have that competes with our new Lincolns. We have Image.......................................... :fan: :fan:

 

OK your smiley use is hereby BANNED!

[wescoent]

Young middle managers want BMW's and Lexus... If U can fit some Lincolns and Merks in there u can say hey were in the affordable luxury market. Used BMWs and Lexus are so premium that a buyer will take a car off lease that when new is out of price range but used with certification and car fax is no brainer. IE BMW 745 new shape you can get for under 50000. Lexus what make and what model. Benz , Audi, Infinity, CAddy, what do you have that competes with our new Lincolns. We have Image.......................................... :fan: :fan:

 

So from that barely coherent babbling, I'm getting that you think that all young middle managers want BMW and Lexus. The market is way more diverse than you give it credit. Lincoln competes head on with the Lexus ES350, Acura TL, and Audi A4 with the MKZ. I happen to like the MKZ, and know many people who are very impressed by it, who aren't Ford fanboys.

[Edstock]

"Used BMWs and Lexus are so premium that a buyer will take a car off lease that when new is out of price range but used with certification and car fax is no brainer. IE BMW 745 new shape you can get for under 50000. Lexus what make and what model. Benz , Audi, Infinity"

 

The mindset of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

The Zephyr is a nice entry-level luxury sled. It doesn't look like a Lexus or an Acura or an Audi or a Benz or BMW. The grille is American, and will appeal to those who don't follow the herd of Asian style, and want more toys and performance than a rubber-mat entry-level Benz or BMW and aren't that concerned about Kraut tech. At the entry level BMW 3 and 5 series, the Z 3.5 AWD Haldex gives away nothing in either power or technology. Audi/VW also use Haldex for AWD.

 

So, the Z won't be king of the hill, but it will sell just fine, and maybe the Fusion coupe will be become a Z coupe. You won't like it, but others will find it a satisfying ride.

 

You'd look good in a used Banglebutt; somebody has to own one and pay for the brake jobs required to slow the whopper, and pay for the gas to move all that avoirdupois around the landscape, and it should be you. May you be on your insurance agent's Xmas card list, you need to own one. Maybe you should own two.

[one2gamble]

Lincoln to be taken seriously as a Luxury car must come to the market with a retail Aston Martin engineered 75 to 100 grand coupe to be taken seriously.

 

thats the stupidist comment I have heard in awhile

[Michael Reynolds]

thats the stupidist comment I have heard in awhile

 

How in the hell did you understand what was written there?

[Edgey]

Lincoln hit rock bottom really quick and really hard and must have been the most neglected brand since Mercury. That is changing now, especially in '07. However, depending on what happens with the Town Car (announce something for God sake!), Lincoln may not gain staggering marketshare once it sheads its fleet-dependency. The MKZ and MKX will easily replace and exceed Town Car's and LS marketshare, but expect Navigator to continue to lose ground. Once the MKS comes online in 2 years, Lincoln may start climbing the charts again.

 

Ford's interest in Mercury seems to have dried up after a fairly ambitious produt push, but now we hear them pulling the plug on the Freestyle variant and there are no plans to give Mercury an Edge or Fairlane. Mercury will receive updated versions of the Montego and Mariner. The Milan also seems to be struggling to meet sales expectations, while the Zephyr and Fusion have done extremely well. It's starting to look like the best thing for Lincoln/Mercury is to just move everything over to Lincoln since Ford has moved aggressively to consolidate all products across the North American operation. Selling Lincoln and Mercurys in the showroom today is starting to look like Chrysler and Plymouth dealers back in the 'good old days'. Mercury still has a purpose by bringing in conquest sells and sustaining Lincoln dealerships which need higher sales volumes in order to proliferate in urban markets. But ideally, Lincoln won't need the Mercury crutch should it become more successful in the future.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Edgey