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1.6L EB recall


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Didn't Ford pick the 1.6EB to replace the Hybrid power plant in the Escape (at least for now)? Funny I don't remember any stories about Ford hybrids catching fire, that would have been way more entertaining than this stuff. People were already scared of driving a car with a 330V battery pack.

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It's 2013, Ford's cars should not be self igniting, the black eye comes from not having a handle on this problem.

Clearly, there is a chain of events happening leading up to leaked coolant causing an under hood fire

but not having a defined idea of what is to be checked or pressure tested is unbelievable.

 

There's a certain modernistic hubris required in proclaiming that we have finally today reached an era where it should not be possible for vehicles propelled by a hellish monstrosity of hydrocarbon combustion to permit their furies to escape their bounds. Time has only made these beasts more complex.

 

Are gun toting goons knocking in your front door to haul your vehicle back to the dealer? If not, why NOT just keep it in your garage until a fix is known, and only turn it in once the queue of vehicles to be repaired is minimal?

Edited by Noah Harbinger
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Why is this an "opportunity" for Ford? To show off their commitment to customer service? So when did that commitment begin, after they bought the car or before they sold it to them? It's the same story with MFT. Ford is responsible for this disservice to their customers, never forget that! They created the problem, they are responsible for the customer imposition, the customer is entitled and far from fortunate when Ford actually does something to help them. And this keeps happening, so...where is that customer commitment?

 

"Once you have their money, never give it back"

 

-Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #1

Edited by BORG
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Why is this an "opportunity" for Ford? To show off their commitment to customer service?

Exactly.

A company is judged by two actions - provision of quality goods and services at commensurate prices and full customer support if problems occur.

If you fail to deliver one of the above, you sure as hell better be able deliver the other or look out.....

 

Borg, you may not understand the term "Opportunity" as it is used in business,

it's a Euphemism for correction and learning when things really go wrong.

Edited by jpd80
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Originally, a much smaller group of 6,146 Escapes were recalled because a cylinder head freeze plug may become

dislodged causing coolant to leak over manifold and potential fire.At the time, Ford told safety authorities that there

had been no instances of field fires. I wonder if other instances have now come to light where more vehicles have

been reported with leaks, maybe the build dates and instances with Escape and Fusions have caused Ford to

react before the authorities step in...

 

More freeze plug problems or is there a more disturbing problem coming to light?

Edited by jpd80
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Yes, we're talking about nearly 90,000 units dating back to last year.

European production is heavily skewed towards diesel engines.....

Re your diesel production comment......not sure what it is in reference to, but Ford's diesel engines are built at Dagenham,, UK & Otosan Turkey.

 

 

Bridgend Engine – South Wales

(United Kingdom)

2,137 employees

1.25 L 4-cyl. – Fiesta

1.4 L 4-cyl. –Fiesta, B-MAX

1.6 L Ti-VCT – Fiesta, B-MAX, Focus, C-MAX, Grand C-MAX, Mondeo

1.6 L EcoBoost – C-MAX, Grand C-MAX ,Focus, Mondeo, S-MAX and Galaxy, Fusion, Escape(FNA) also supplied

to other OEM

3.0 L Turbo I6 – supplied to other OEMs

3.2 L I6 – supplied to other OEMs

5.0 L V8 NA/SC – supplied to other OEMs

 

 

Dagenham Engine (United

Kingdom)

1,835 employees

1.4 L Duratorq TDCi – Fiesta, Focus

1.5 / 1.6 L Duratorq TDCI – B-MAX

1.6 L Duratorq TDCi – Fiesta, B-MAX, Focus, C-MAX, Grand C-MAX, Ecosport

(FSAO), also supplied to other OEMs

1.8 L Duratorq TDCi – Transit Connect, Focus (FSAO)

2.2 L Duratorc TDCi – Transit, also supplied to other OEMs

2.7 L /3.0 L V6 Diesel – supplied to other OEMs

 

 

Ford Otosan Engine

Inönü (Joint Venture), (Turkey)

353 employees

7.3 L / 9.0 L I6 Diesel – Cargo Van

2.2 L 4-cyl. Duratorq TDCi –Transit

3.2 L 5-cyl. Duratorq TDCi –Transit

Edited by MKII
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Didn't Ford pick the 1.6EB to replace the Hybrid power plant in the Escape (at least for now)? Funny I don't remember any stories about Ford hybrids catching fire, that would have been way more entertaining than this stuff. People were already scared of driving a car with a 330V battery pack.

 

but remember the Volt Did have a recall related to fires.

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The following is pure speculation:

 

The big difference in cooling between the 1.6L and the 2.0L/2.5L is an Engine Cooant Bypass valve which stays closed at cooler temperatues so the engine warms up faster. If this unit was to fail in the closed position and the engine overheated then I can easily see a scenario where one of the 10,000 (exagerated) coolant hoses that route all around this engine for various reasons could fail and drip on the exhaust. I find inetresting that the Ford Manual has a coolant flow diagram for the 2.0L & 2.5L but not the 1.6L. They only have a component location picture for the 1.6L. There are a bunch of little coolant hoses that wrap around the back of the engine the could hit exhaust if they fail.

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"Ford spokesman Said Deep said engine overheating can lead to fluid leaks, which may come in contact with a hot exhaust system and trigger a fire.

 

We're developing a fix which is designed to keep the fluids from reaching the hot exhaust components," he said. "We'll update our customers as soon as we can."

 

So two issues, one, the cause of the over temp condition, and two being control of the overflow coolant.

 

A faulty coolant bypass valve sounds like as good of guess as any for the first.

Edited by JasonM
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The first reported incident happened 4 days after the owner had the cylinder head cup recall performed. While traveling at 65 mph the driver heard a "pop" sound, then they saw a high temp warning. Makes me wonder, at least in this particular incident, if the recall wasn't performed properly or wasn't effective. Since the cylinder head cup recall only applied to 6,000 units, I have to assume there have been incidents outside that VIN range for them to have recalled all vehicles.

 

Recall 12S39: Certain 2013 model year Escape vehicles equipped with 1.6L engines may have a cylinder head cup plug that may become dislodged. A dislodged cylinder head cup plug will allow loss of engine coolant. This may result in subsequent engine overheating, which may be associated with instrument cluster gage, tell-tale, and message warnings. Under certain circumstances with massive coolant loss from the head cup plug bore, water in the 50/50 coolant mix may vaporize, resulting in a higher concentration of glycol (antifreeze). This would be most likely under a high engine load operating condition.

Edited by JasonM
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Re your diesel production comment......not sure what it is in reference to, but Ford's diesel engines are built at Dagenham,, UK & Otosan Turkey.

The response was in reply to questions about Bridgend plant and how the expansion of US orders had affected volume.

The reference to diesel was to put in perspective the relative volumes of European petrol engine and diesels - nothing more.

Edited by jpd80
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You can see how having serious problems with the volume engine in Escape and Fusion would be running a sword through Ford's sales figures

as buyers scramble to avoid the 1.6 EB, even after problems are solved, buyers may be more than concerned about ordering an engine with a

questionable past. I wonder if this opens the door for the dependable 2.5 I-4 to return or does Ford suck it up and keep to the plan.

Edited by jpd80
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We are currently displaced of our 1.6L escape. We got put in a 2012 Hyundai Tucson. While not a bad vehicle it's certainly not as nice as our escape, the wife absolutely despises it. While we make payments on a $32,000 vehicle we are stuck in a $22,000 hyundai. The guy at enterprise told us pets weren't allowed in their vehicle, I said ford took our only vehicle that can carry our dog to the vet away from us, the dog will be going in their vehicle if she needs to. They can work that out with ford if its not to their liking.

 

Honestly if they want to buy back the 1.6's and give us a 2.0 that would be great, should have ordered a 2.0 like I wanted to but figured the wife drives it 90% of the time we will go for the extra MPG (which sucks anyway)

Edited by SK360
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You can see how having serious problems with the volume engine in Escape and Fusion would be running a sword through Ford's sales figures

as buyers scramble to avoid the 1.6 EB, even after problems are solved, buyers may be more than concerned about ordering an engine with a

questionable past. I wonder if this opens the door for the dependable 2.5 I-4 to return or does Ford suck it up and keep to the plan.

 

I'm sure nothing will change with their plans, they will just fix the problems they have as they come up and plow along. They are going to have to spend the next few years dealing with low quality rankings and then they'll have to work up from there. This is a very immature company, it's surprising how much they have to re-learn about the business of global car development. They made all these exact mistakes before and seem to have completely forgotten how to solve them.

Edited by BORG
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The response was in reply to questions about Bridgend plant and how the expansion of US orders had affected volume.

The reference to diesel was to put in perspective the relative volumes of European petrol engine and diesels - nothing more.

 

I recall Ford Europe 2011 diesel take rate was around 46%. I have a feeling 2012 will see this percentage decrease, as the EcoBoost engines are selling very well.

With them (EcoBoost equipped vehicles) being Euro3,000 + less then a similar hp diesel, plus similar power dynamics it is a nice alternative choice which is working.

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........This is a very immature company, it's surprising how much they have to re-learn about the business of global car development. They made all these exact mistakes before and seem to have completely forgotten how to solve them.

 

Ford never did a global car before, at least not the way they're doing it now. I do agree that "One Ford" is still in a early phase, and they're making the inevitable mistakes. This is no excuse for engine fires, but it does takes time to "institutionalize" global design specs. The Ford contact I talked to on Thanksgiving mentioned just that, the Brits insist on doing things their way, just because they always have. I suspect this will now change.

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Ford never did a global car before, at least not the way they're doing it now. I do agree that "One Ford" is still in a early phase, and they're making the inevitable mistakes. This is no excuse for engine fires, but it does takes time to "institutionalize" global design specs. The Ford contact I talked to on Thanksgiving mentioned just that, the Brits insist on doing things their way, just because they always have. I suspect this will now change.

 

My recency of experience is becoming more dated day by day, but I did have multiple years of doing business with Mazda, Kia, Ford Europe, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo (and a little bit of AM). I have said on numerous occasions that -- despite 22+ hour door-to-door trips, videoconferences at 10:00 at night and language difficulties -- I would rather deal with Mazda any day of the week versus Ford Europe. I have to stereotype because some individuals were great, but when I was with Ford, FoE had an extraordinary amount of hubris which was not backed up by product or quality facts, only their high opinion of themselves. They looked with disdain at the U.S. market and particularly its drivers. And they completely looked down their noses at Asian manufacturers even though those manufacturers have shown the way in terms of quality and are quite dominant in the U.S. market. The Asian manufacturers are the ones to beat in the U.S. market -- not VW which seems to be FoE's sole focus.

 

I had hoped things had changed under Mullaly, and maybe they have. Ford doesn't seem to know what the root cause is for this embarassing, dangerous, and image-killing problem, so it's pretty hard to sort out where to point fingers and take corrective action.

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