1.6L EB recall

[jpd80]

It's strange that FNA now has Fiesta, Focus, Escape, C-max, Escape, Fusion and

in the future next gen Edge and Taurus all going onto Euro based architecture.

 

It all seems very one sided to me.....

 

W need some, Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane and Territory in the equation,

I'm sure the American could work more easily with those designs.....

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[rkisler]

Letting Mazda go was a mistake, I think the next gen Mazda 6 gives us a glimpse into just how good a CD3 MK II Fusion could have been.

Now that FoE see less use for CD4, FNA needs to either fully re engineer it and de-Eurofy it or add more CD3 elements that work.

 

All I know is that FoE based vehicles in Australia are pretty reliable but we don't take 1.6 EB...

 

Umm, too late I think. Ford is hooked into the logic that they can make everything from a Ka to a big Lincoln with just one platform.

[Biker16]

I'm serious. I'm on a zero-tolerance "Europe does cars better" kick right now. I don't want to hear anyone come around here talking about "US suppliers...." "NA manufacturing base..." I don't have time for any of that crap. I don't care to hear anyone blame Ford's NA manufacturing ops for bungling this launch. Or, in retrospect, the Focus launch or the Escape launch.

 

FoE is now 0 for 3 on product launches in the US. In fact, if you toss in the first Focus, they're 0-4. Toss in the Contour, and they're 0-5.

 

It has been established, IMO, clearly, that FoE's product engineering and manufacturing controls are shoddy, substandard, and not up to the requirements of the US market.

 

Frankly, Ford needs to clean house in Europe. If you're in Europe and you're in charge of any aspect of manufacturing, you'd better have a paper trail documenting your concerns over this. If not, polish up your resume and go to work for VW. I hear they're always hiring.

 

If you're in charge of any aspect of vehicle engineering, you'd better have been on record with your concerns about your products measuring up to the NHTSA's standards. You may be able to get away with engine fires in Italy, Bulgaria, East Troglenstein, and wherever else, but that crap doesn't cut it here. You have zero slack in the US. None. You screw up and it's headline news in this market. You screw up this big, this often, and you're toast.

 

If you weren't concerned with these products hitting the market in the US, you're a menace to Ford motor. Maybe that's a bit strong, but I can't stress enough how utterly unready these products were for manufacture and sale and use in this market.

 

Time to clean house in Europe. Maybe Ford's European products will get better too.

I'm serious. I'm on a zero-tolerance "Europe does cars better" kick right now. I don't want to hear anyone come around here talking about "US suppliers...." "NA manufacturing base..." I don't have time for any of that crap. I don't care to hear anyone blame Ford's NA manufacturing ops for bungling this launch. Or, in retrospect, the Focus launch or the Escape launch.

 

FoE is now 0 for 3 on product launches in the US. In fact, if you toss in the first Focus, they're 0-4. Toss in the Contour, and they're 0-5.

 

It has been established, IMO, clearly, that FoE's product engineering and manufacturing controls are shoddy, substandard, and not up to the requirements of the US market.

 

Frankly, Ford needs to clean house in Europe. If you're in Europe and you're in charge of any aspect of manufacturing, you'd better have a paper trail documenting your concerns over this. If not, polish up your resume and go to work for VW. I hear they're always hiring.

 

If you're in charge of any aspect of vehicle engineering, you'd better have been on record with your concerns about your products measuring up to the NHTSA's standards. You may be able to get away with engine fires in Italy, Bulgaria, East Troglenstein, and wherever else, but that crap doesn't cut it here. You have zero slack in the US. None. You screw up and it's headline news in this market. You screw up this big, this often, and you're toast.

 

If you weren't concerned with these products hitting the market in the US, you're a menace to Ford motor. Maybe that's a bit strong, but I can't stress enough how utterly unready these products were for manufacture and sale and use in this market.

 

Time to clean house in Europe. Maybe Ford's European products will get better too.

 

the Mondeo/ fusion was a FNA launch they were the LEAD.

 

what engine fires in Europe?

 

what specifically are the "product engineering and manufacturing controls are shoddy, substandard,"

 

You are always short on specifics.. you Don't know understand the problem yet pontificate on the Solution?

 

until you know what really happened you should not speak on it.

 

you are spreading your ignorance, and jumping to conclusions.

[RichardJensen]

Letting Mazda go was a mistake, I think the next gen Mazda 6 gives us a glimpse into just how good a CD3 MK II Fusion could have been.

Now that FoE see less use for CD4, FNA needs to either fully re engineer it and de-Eurofy it or add more CD3 elements that work.

 

All I know is that FoE based vehicles in Australia are pretty reliable but we don't take 1.6 EB...

Ford will be able to make this work.

 

But it will require dismissing inept suppliers, window-seating inept engineers, and perhaps, the wholesale transplant of responsibilities to business centers that have demonstrated competence, or the wholesale transplant of managers with demonstrated competence to business centers that are responsible for this ongoing dumpster fire.

 

It cannot be plausibly argued that European supply bases were capable of serving the US market. It cannot be rationally claimed that the quality of certain European built items were equal to the demands and scrutiny of this market.

 

At this point one wonders if Ford shouldn't have started from scratch instead of trying to take 3rd rate quality products from a barely profitable market and sell them in the US just because they were newer and prettier.

[RichardJensen]

the Mondeo/ fusion was a FNA launch they were the LEAD.

I am only going to reply to you once on this thread. This is the only response you deserve:

 

Your defense of these products is unsustainable, given the dozens of issues that have cropped up with them. Issues that did not crop up with the Mustang, the F150, the CD3s Edge, the CD3 Fusions, the second gen. C170 Focus, the second gen. CD Escape, the D3 Taurus, D3 Flex, D3 MKS, D3 Explorer, CD3s MKX, CD3 MKZ.

 

This, Biker is what you wanted. You wanted the NA market full of products conceived in Europe. You have it. Now you can go clean up the mess.

 

I'm done with you.

[Biker16]

Sorry, JPD, but either you or biker are going to have to deliniate exactly what "FNA fiddling" or FNA redesign is responsible for this f*&^ up. I'm not buying it. What I am buying is that these cars and powertrains are designed by FoE and they are dragging their supply base with them and some of them 1) make crap, and 2) are having a tough time getting up to speed which is causing problems. I preferred the high quality Japanese-centric supply base we had prior to handing the keys to FoE.

 

I agreee with Richard on the launch success of FoE products.

 

If I were Mullaly, I would be having second thoughts about kicking Mazda out of bed.

 

It's also discouraging that it seems from the announcements that Ford doesn't have the root cause isolated yet. Yikes.

 

why are the engines overheating?

 

was FOE responsible for the integration of the 6F and the 1.6?

 

why haven't these issues been reported elsewhere in the world?

[jpd80]

Ford will be able to make this work.

 

But it will require dismissing inept suppliers, window-seating inept engineers, and perhaps, the wholesale transplant of responsibilities to business centers that have demonstrated competence, or the wholesale transplant of managers with demonstrated competence to business centers that are responsible for this ongoing dumpster fire.

 

It cannot be plausibly argued that European supply bases were capable of serving the US market. It cannot be rationally claimed that the quality of certain European built items were equal to the demands and scrutiny of this market.

 

At this point one wonders if Ford shouldn't have started from scratch instead of trying to take 3rd rate quality products from a barely profitable market and sell them in the US just because they were newer and prettier.

I'll open this up by saying that using the FoE products as basis unified Ford, what mulally wanted but it also stuck them with

mostly FoE's supplier base and transitioning some NA suppliers onto contracts with these designs.. Going with these designs were

squarely to do with accounting, scales of economy and any othe reasoning to avoid clean sheet designs an d the good part about this?

 

All of these Euro designs are now basically heavily MCEs so, the pain for Ford NA will not be that long in terms of a full product cycle,

my guess is that pen is already to pad developing designs beyond EUCD, CD4 is an evolution but CD5 (?) will probably eliminate more pain...

 

Something like Taurus which will be a completely new car based on CD4 is a great opportunity to meld the good of CD4 Fusion with FNA systems

and produce a flexible, reliable platform that avoids a lot of the current problems..

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

The key will be enforcing NA standards going forward, on pain of loss of contracts in both Europe and NA. From now on the policy has to be: You will meet NA deadlines, NA quality, NA consistency, or you will not supply Ford in Europe or North America. And that goes for Ford factories as well as Tier 1s.

Edited December 1, 2012 by RichardJensen

[AGR]

:hysterical2: :hysterical2:

Considering that Toyota has been the KING of recalls over the past 5 years, except for last year when Honda beat them out, I think it would be wise for you to STFU.

[jpd80]

The key will be enforcing NA standards going forward, on pain of loss of contracts in both Europe and NA. From now on the policy has to be: You will meet NA deadlines, NA quality, NA consistency, or you will not supply Ford in Europe or North America. And that goes for Ford factories as well as Tier 1s.

Perhaps this is a little taste of maybe why FoE doesn't do so well in the market against VW and others there,

maybe their cars and general quality are not up to scratch and most in Europe including reviewers recognise this?

 

Ford has to hit its marks in satisfying all areas of customer expectation and if there are niggling problems all over the place,

then perhaps the summation is a desirable product sadly flawed by issues that shouldn't be occurring in 2013 vehicles..

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

including reviewers

I don't know that the reviewers in Europe are worth a hoot. By and large they're even more partisan and extreme than their US counterparts.

 

But I do wonder how many issues are due to an ill-equipped supplier base (the headlights and bumpers perhaps?) how many are due to what appears to be shoddy assembly work on higher than historic volume (Bridgend), how many are due to the leisurely pace at which European vehicles are assembled, and how many would pass without comment in Europe.

 

It seems, at this point, clear that Ford underestimated the difficulty of turning these narrowly conceived and engineered vehicles into global platforms with a global manufacturing, supply, and distribution base (is it coincidental that the least problematic vehicle in this sequence was the Fiesta, a vehicle which was engineered for massive global manufacturing?).

 

I mean, let's face it: Ford's European operations, before Mulally, were a world unto themselves. The products were engineered for that market, for that supplier base, for those factories, and for that small and chauvinistic corner of the world (if Italians felt about Italian cars the way Americans feel about American cars, Fiat would no longer be in business). It was asserted that these products, being so closely related to each other, would deliver massive economies of scale. Except that, as it turns out, there were significant issues increasing the scale--let alone relocating production.

 

It is almost beyond question that Ford's European products lag the field in quality and reliability, and now thanks to those products and MFT, the same can be said about Ford's NA product.

Edited December 1, 2012 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

I am only going to reply to you once on this thread. This is the only response you deserve:

 

Your defense of these products is unsustainable, given the dozens of issues that have cropped up with them. Issues that did not crop up with the Mustang, the F150, the CD3s Edge, the CD3 Fusions, the second gen. C170 Focus, the second gen. CD Escape, the D3 Taurus, D3 Flex, D3 MKS, D3 Explorer, CD3s MKX, CD3 MKZ.

 

This, Biker is what you wanted. You wanted the NA market full of products conceived in Europe. You have it. Now you can go clean up the mess.

 

I'm done with you.

 

And the products conceived in Europe, are awesome, the escape, fusion, C-max, and Focus are easily best in class, what sales are up substantially from the north American designed they replaced. Ford has gone from being near the bottom of every car review to consistently ranking at the top of these reviews.

 

SO yes I have gotten everything I have asked for, and Ford north America has never made this much money on cars in decades. we have profitable sub compact, and compact cars something Ford North America has never been able to do.

 

If this is a FOE problem with this engine, is it fair to say all FOE engines are similarly defective? what about the EB2.0? what about the manual transmissions used in almost all ford cars, most are made and designed in Europe.

 

Was Eco-boost a mistake? should ford just give up on this technology?

 

Why hasn't this issue shown up on other FOE models?

[jpd80]

Improperly installed coolant plugs, this is on Bridgend, they have dropped the ball big time.

And this issue has ben circling since at least September and involves a lot of vehicles.

Something like 76,000 Escapes and around 15,000 2013 Fusions...not good at all.

 

Improperly installed coolant plugs will turn your chariot of great escapes into a chariot of fire, the result of coolant leaking onto said engine after the plug falls out onto the highway. The issue, according to Ford spokesperson Marcey Zweibel, first came about at one of their dealerships, where an employee driving an Escape experienced the conflagration first-hand; the fire was extinguished with no injuries reported

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Perhaps this is a little taste of maybe why FoE doesn't do so well in the market against VW and others there,

maybe their cars and general quality are not up to scratch and most in Europe including reviewers recognise this?

 

Ford has to hit its marks in satisfying all areas of customer expectation and if there are niggling problems all over the place,

then perhaps the summation is a desirable product sadly flawed by issues that shouldn't be occurring in 2013 vehicles..

 

VW home market is the largest market in the EU, germany.

 

what is the reason why any other make cannot beat VW? VW Quality is not the best.

 

then there is issue of Barb Samardzich who is an american incharge of FoE and was responsible for the development of Ecoboost engines.

 

 

Barb Samardzich

 

Title: Vice President, Product Development, Ford of Europe (Effective September 1, 2011)

 

Barb Samardzich is vice president, Product Development, Ford of Europe, effective September 1, 2011. Samardzich will report to Stephen Odell, chairman and CEO, Ford of Europe, and Derrick Kuzak, group vice president, Global Product Development, Ford Motor Company.

Prior to this assignment, Samardzich was vice president, Global Product Programs. She has held several key leadership roles in the product development organization. She served as vice president, Powertrain Engineering, responsible for engine and transmission engineering worldwide. Before that, she was vice president, Powertrain Operations. During her time as executive director, Small FWD and RWD Vehicles, she was responsible for the design, engineering and development of nine key Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicles, including the 2005 MY Mustang.

Samardzich also previously held a variety of positions in Powertrain Engineering, including chief engineer for Ford’s Automatic Transmission Operations. Her work in automatic transmissions and her experience in product creation won her the Women in Engineering Achievement Award from Design News in 2004.

During her career at Ford, Samardzich also served as chief engineer for the F-Series Super Duty Commercial Trucks, and as quality director for Ford Brand products in Ford of Europe.

 

is this a design issue or a quality control issue.

 

Quote from Auto

Following additional reports of fires in Virginia and Arizona, Ford formed a task force on November 12 to investigate the fires, the News reported.

The latest recall does not affect 2013 Escapes or Fusions with other engines, Ford said.

When parts are available, Ford plans to notify customers to schedule a service appointment with dealers.

In July, Ford issued its first recall of the 2013 Escape. Ford said more than 10,000 new Escapes were assembled with incorrectly positioned carpet padding that could interfere with braking.

Later in July, Ford recalled 11,500 redesigned Ford Escape models with 1.6 liter engines and urged owners to immediately stop driving the model because of fire risk.

Ford said a possible damaged fuel line may produce a significant fuel leak, leading to a fire if the vehicle is running. Ford reported three fires since June 9, including one in a customer vehicle in Canada and two at its Louisville Assembly plant.

Ford says more than 90 percent of the 2013 Escapes covered by the July recall have been repaired, The Detroit News reported.

In September, a third recall for the 2013 Escape was issued to prevent a dislodged cup plug in the engine cylinder head from causing a possible fire, as well, the company said at the time.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121130/OEM11/121139972#ixzz2Dm1LkETP

 

Edited December 1, 2012 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

Improperly installed coolant plugs, this is on Bridgend, they have dropped the ball big time.

QFT

[jpd80]

VW home market is the largest market in the EU, germany.

 

what is the reason why any other make cannot beat VW? VW Quality is not the best.

 

then there is issue of Barb Samardzich

Don't lay this on BZ, she has inherited a position in a region with internal culture that repels any critisism of own designs.

FoE could barely bring themselves to close Genk, Southampton and make product transfers to Valencia and Cologne.

Only 12 months ago, FoE was taking funding from the Belgian government to secure long term production agreements at Genk

The way trade deals are going in Europe, Ford could have possibly considered sourcing post 2014 CD4s from either FAPA or FNA..

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Don't lay this on BZ, she has inherited a position in a region with internal culture that repels any critisism of own designs.

FoE could barely bring themselves to close Genk, Southampton and make product transfers to Valencia and Cologne.

Only 12 months ago, FoE was taking funding from the Belgian government to secure long term production agreements at Genk

The way trade deals are going in Europe, Ford could have possibly considered sourcing post 2014 CD4s from either FAPA or FNA..

 

is this design or Quality control. why haven't these issues been found in other EB16 models?

 

why is North America different? Are the brits so upset about the US leaving that they only sabotage out motors?

 

the Plug issue look to have been addressed in the recall in September. Is this different, or something else?

 

Are the engines overheating and causing a leak or is a coolant leak causing the the engine to overheat and then the fire.

 

the UK plant has been making the 1.6 for over 12 years and the Ecoboost for 18 months, it is inconceivable that this is limited to

just one application.

 

is the Uk plant in excess of capacity/overloaded? It makes no sense why a qulaity plant all of the sudden becomes trash??

Edited December 1, 2012 by Biker16

[jpd80]

You tell me, 90,000 extra engines going to the North America,

something clearly happened to quality control in that plant for that order.

 

The coolant plug blows out on the highway spurting coolant over the manifold/.exhaust causing an under hood fire.

The problem was initially treated as isolated incidents until more widespread reports came to light.

This has absolutely knobbled prime products in Escape and Fusion, FNA is not pleased...

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[aneekr]

what about the EB2.0?

 

That engine is part of a different family than the 1.6L Ecoboost. The 2.0L uses a Mazda MZR architecture; the 1.6L is derived from FOE's Sigma.

[Biker16]

That engine is part of a different family than the 1.6L Ecoboost. The 2.0L uses a Mazda MZR architecture; the 1.6L is derived from FOE's Sigma.

 

the Sigma is a Yamaha designed engine. it has proven to be a very reliable engine. yet you don't see fiesta 1.6's catching on fire? do you?

 

Stop associating "quality" with Place of origin it is more complex than that. the MZR is good but not perfect. there is a reason Ford decided against using the same GTDI Engine Mazda put in the MS3 and MS6, it did not meet the durability requirements.

[RichardJensen]

You tell me, 90,000 extra engines going to the North America,

And it's not like engines are the only issues with the Fusion.

[jpd80]

The engine is not at fault, just the poor workmanship installing coolant plugs

I'd love to know the story behind the train load of Fusions directed to FRAP to repair problems (stampings?)

 

oops, no that was the stamping unit transferred to USA for repair and then returned to Mexico

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Biker16]

You tell me, 90,000 extra engines going to the North America,

something clearly happened to quality control in that plant for that order.

 

The coolant plug blows out on the highway spurting coolant over the manifold/.exhaust causing an under hood fire.

The problem was initially treated as isolated incidents until more widespread reports came to light.

This has absolutely knobbled prime products in Escape and Fusion, FNA is not pleased...

You tell me, 90,000 extra engines going to the North America,

something clearly happened to quality control in that plant for that order.

 

The coolant plug blows out on the highway spurting coolant over the manifold/.exhaust causing an under hood fire.

The problem was initially treated as isolated incidents until more widespread reports came to light.

This has absolutely knobbled prime products in Escape and Fusion, FNA is not pleased...

 

The lack of discipline is stunning. first the Focus launched with horrible fit and finish, due to a product ramp that was too fast, and led to the turning off of key quality control equipment to meet Quota. Now adding Production to a plant that may not be able to meet the demand. this is a pattern none of us hoped would return, that pattern of volume over quality.

 

The ramp down of the 1.6 and the ramp up of the replacement EB1.0 for the fiesta and focus is still in process right now. and It still the sole global source for all ecoboost 1.6, and Duratec, 1.25 1.4 and 1.6 engines for europe and Asia. what is going on in that plant?

[Biker16]

And it's not like engines are the only issues with the Fusion.

 

such as?

[akirby]

The engine is not at fault, just the poor workmanship installing coolant plugs

I'd love to know the story behind the train load of Fusions directed to FRAP to repair problems (stampings?)

 

oops, no that was the stamping unit transferred to USA for repair and then returned to Mexico

 

The FRAP repairs seem to be headlamp replacement (at least).