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2008 Focus


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they should have had something in the pipeline for this year

They did. it was a Festiva redux.

 

BTW, DRyanC, when I said "Fiesta" I meant "Fiesta" as in the European-built vehicle Ford imported during the last gas crisis:

 

26_October_2002_10.jpg

 

It flopped. Just like the Tracer, Festiva, and Aspire.

 

Stripper B cars, selling on the basis of economy alone, sour buyers on the brand, do not inspire loyalty, and frequently sell at a loss. Other than that, they're darn fine cars.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Last i checked ford has been selling vehicles in america for over 100 years, they should have had something in the pipeline for this year, i mean gas prices started rocketing skyward 3-4 years ago and they don't even start until now to get some small cars, and in that time they decided to pretty much murder that focus's sales and reputation with cheap laziness.

 

Before Mark Fields ford was absolutelhy bound for bankruptcy and going out of business, no question about it. If they kept what they have been doing from the 90's to the 00's they would of been either out of business and bought out by 2015. The sad part is now they kind of have awaken and they may drop to fourth place in U.S. sales after toyota and honda before there products hit and it is tough to get buyers back because the saying is once you go japanese you don't go back. :cry:

 

Ford did have something in the pipeline for this fall or next fall release .... but Fields cancelled them for being completley unsatisfactory vehicles ... it is stil a controversial issues as much as I understand - I supported it, but there are plenty people who though Ford should have had SOMETHING on the lot, even if it sucked.

 

Igor

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Ford did have something in the pipeline for this fall or next fall release .... but Fields cancelled them for being completley unsatisfactory vehicles ... it is stil a controversial issues as much as I understand - I supported it, but there are plenty people who though Ford should have had SOMETHING on the lot, even if it sucked.

 

Igor

Below I took the sales from July 2006 of both the Yaris (which is an all new nameplate launched in March) and the Aveo:

 

Aveo: 7,426

Yaris: 10,137

 

There could be several different variables at play here explaining why an all new namplate outsells one that has been around for a couple years. My guess would be packaging and the overall lack of refinement the Aveo exhbits. Whatever the case might be Ford needs to make sure that it's done right and establish the Ford name correctly in that segment. As is the Detroit automakers are not very well known for making affordable, fuel efficent cars that hold up as well as their Asian counterparts (not my perception but the public's as a whole).

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^^^Yeah it is sad .. people will jump on anything with the Toyota sombrero on it - look at the FJ cruiser sales - ridiculous ..

 

And I agree -I think it is better to wait for a killer product than to have something cheap on the lot ASAP and tarnish the brand image in the segment. I was simply stating that there were people who though otherwise.

 

Igor

Edited by igor
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the fiesta we got for north americ was before my time for driving so I've never had a really go look at it. Was it "exactly" like the euro spec? or what ford normally does and farts around with a good car over seas and softens it up for the NA market? Brand loyalty is in my opinion a farce. People buy what they like or are told what to like. I like the KA and if it was "exactly" like he euro spec then I'd buy one. It's just Ford doesn't even give you a choice (B-segment) to buy something that gets great mileage. I can buy A-plan but that doesn't mean my next vehicle will be a Ford. And just because I bought a Focus doesn't mean I'm going to come in again for a Fusion or something larger because if the Focus worked for me why buy something that I don't need. I'd be happy rebuying a Focus, if my current one craps out but I don't want to have 2 at the same time.

 

DRyanC

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what ford normally does and farts around with a good car over seas and softens it up for the NA market

It was the Euro-spec model

 

Also, since the Fiesta was before your time, you might want to avoid saying 'what ford normally does', as the Capri, Fiesta, XR4Ti, and Scorpio were pretty much Euro Fords, with Federalized powertrains. None succeeded. The Contour/Mystique--designed entirely in Europe--also flopped due to "Euro" sized passenger space.

 

The Focus was hardly 'softened up' for the NA market, to date it is one of the few cars in its segment with availalble leather, heated seats, and traction control.

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softened I mean springs, dampners, adding larger flatter seats. moving lights, changing trim pieces in and out Correct me if I'm wrong but was the Focus not availible with 3 different suspension in the UK (00-04 model), we got the 2nd with the SVT model. Sport compact did a suspensiom swap from a UK focus pre ST/SVT. My ZX3 seats are big for me. My dad had a sedan and they where awful. Might aswell bent a piece of card board at 90deg and called it a seat. Our 1st gen Focus still never looked as good as a UK, inside or out

 

OT - I had a chance to see the Reflex up close at the indy. It's big and ugly for my taste

 

well the HB echo sold great up here

 

DRyanC

Edited by DRyanC
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The Fesita sold in the late 1970s and early 1980's was a great car...it was the bridge between the Pinto and Escort, which in its 1982-1985 incaranation left ALOT to be desired. My old Man had a 79 Fesita and my mom got a Escort Wagon in 82, The Wagon couldnt even get out of its own way, where as the Fesita had some get up and go and handled pretty good. My Escort GT from 1986 (hand me down first car from my dad) was nice, but it had serious handling flaws on it.

 

OT - I had a chance to see the Reflex up close at the indy. It's big and ugly for my taste

 

BIG????????????????

 

Are you smoking something? its smaller then a Focus hatchback :rolleyes:

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softened I mean springs, dampners, adding larger flatter seats. moving lights, changing trim pieces in and out Correct me if I'm wrong but was the Focus not availible with 3 different suspension in the UK (00-04 model), we got the 2nd with the SVT model. Sport compact did a suspensiom swap from a UK focus pre ST/SVT. My ZX3 seats are big for me. My dad had a sedan and they where awful. Might aswell bent a piece of card board at 90deg and called it a seat. Our 1st gen Focus still never looked as good as a UK, inside or out

 

OT - I had a chance to see the Reflex up close at the indy. It's big and ugly for my taste

 

well the HB echo sold great up here

 

DRyanC

Problem is the tiny seats in the Contour (which suited my scrawny frame just fine) were NOT popular with most people, hence the larger seats in the Focus. As for different suspension kits, there may have been some decontenting, but Ford was also factoring on far fewer Focus sales in the U.S. than in Europe. Lights would've been moved per federal regs (you don't do that to 'decontent' a vehicle), and for interior quality, did you ever see a NA C170 and a UK C170 of the same trim.... and even for all that decontenting, the Focus was still the tightest, sportiest, and most customizable compact on the market when it arrived.

 

Had they not provided the fuel for Jim Padilla's QC fire, they'd be in better shape today--bland '05 restyle and all.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Below I took the sales from July 2006 of both the Yaris (which is an all new nameplate launched in March) and the Aveo:

 

Aveo: 7,426

Yaris: 10,137

 

There could be several different variables at play here explaining why an all new namplate outsells one that has been around for a couple years. My guess would be packaging and the overall lack of refinement the Aveo exhbits. Whatever the case might be Ford needs to make sure that it's done right and establish the Ford name correctly in that segment. As is the Detroit automakers are not very well known for making affordable, fuel efficent cars that hold up as well as their Asian counterparts (not my perception but the public's as a whole).

I think it would be that an Accord gets better mileage than the aveo.

 

Aveo is a disgrace for its MPG at its size, it can hardly compete in mileage with cars 2 classes above it.

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That's just silly. Ford's got magic beans? Just plant them and out sprouts new B cars?

 

If the B segment isn't going away, then it certainly pays for Ford to get this right.

 

Name me one memorable B car. Name me one B car that lasted longer than 5-6 model years.

 

These things, when done wrong, have a tendency of failing.

 

Ford, if they simply Federalized the Fiesta would be doing something no smarter than the last time they Federalized the Fiesta. They'd get 2 years, maybe, of sales, maybe 3. It would be a disappointment, and with the Euro trading against the dollar as it presently is, it would also be a low-profit way of utilizing European capacity.

 

is it any smarter to invest an estimated 500 million in a reskined focus?

 

I don't want to be arrogant and say that I know what Ford's cost are importing a fiesta from europe or any other place they make the car.

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is it any smarter to invest an estimated 500 million in a reskined focus?

 

I don't want to be arrogant and say that I know what Ford's cost are importing a fiesta from europe or any other place they make the car.

They'd lose money importing the Fiesta at $1.20 to the Euro. Give up profitable sales in Europe in order to gain unprofitable sales in the U.S. just to have sales in the U.S.? Doesn't seem bright to me.

 

Also, the '05 Focus IS already a CU best buy.

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Does anybody know what percentage of Focus sales are to fleet buyers? I think that quiotient may dictate the amount spent on keeping the Focus running. The profit margins in this segment are miniscule.

 

I think it's clear from the test mules that the Focus will get a new bum and nose, but the rest of its body will be carried over. It would probably be wise to eliminate the 2000 Focus "character" lines with the update, but I doubt that will happen. Ford did a similar thing with the Taurus, making do with the rolling body-sides instead of redesigning the whole thing to break it away from 1996. Ford is very reluctant when it comes to complete reskins, it seems to happen very VERY rarily between complete replacements. Only Chrysler and Ford seem to be this stingy about reskining vehicles.

Edited by Edgey
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It would probably be wise to eliminate the 2000 Focus "character" lines with the update, but I doubt that will happen.

It is happening. The test mule captured in this shot:

07-18-06_1310.jpg

 

clearly has different character lines than today's Focus:

ford_focus_zx4st_2006_exterior_4_346x270.jpg

 

Note the crease that is inline with the door handles on the '05 Focus? It is below the door handles on the '08. There is also a second crease that runs through both doors similar to the crease on the '05, but apparently with a different resolution around the fenders.

 

I would like to see a Mazda5-ish Focus microvan added to the rather sizable stable of Focus offerings. However we apparently need to wait for C2 for that to occur.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Ah, indeed the body is changing. The Focus update is similar to the Escape update, both of which were introduced around the same time back in 2000 and 2001. It's not a total redesign as you would traditionally see, but only a redesign from the window-sill down. This seems to be a tactic Ford is using heavily to cut cost. Toyota did something similar with the recent Camry update, although I think that was just a classic book-end update (everything but the doors). The Camry update is also based on a vehicle that is much newer than the Escape and Focus. I'm not sure this is a smart thing to do since the end product will always look much like the original, for better or worse (or indifferent). It's hard to look at these things from the perspective of the shopper since we all look at cars more intently than the average Ford consumer. I know when I see the next Escape I will constantly be aware of what they didn't update and I will never call it "All New". The Focus is a good looking car so I don't see a need to change every inch of the car, but the Escape really needs a complete update since so much of it was fairly dated looking from the start, although that was largely chalked up to is 'rugged SUV charm' which was popular back in 2000.

Edited by Edgey
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I think the C pillar is also changing, although not as dramatically. With these unibody cars, the rear quarter, roof, C, and A pillars are stressed members of the structure. All the rest of the panels bolt on, and can be changed quite easily. Minor changes can be made to the rear quarters and C pillar, but without re-engineering the entire frame, the 'new' model ends up quite similar to the old model (e.g. the Camry)

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It looks like they have the c-pillar covered. They may want to redesign the pillar sans the side-glass just to help cut cost. The last Focus redesign in 2005 was designed to help cut cost and improve quality and I'm sure the 2008 update will try and do the same.

Edited by Edgey
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It looks like they have the c-pillar covered. They may want to redesign the pillar sans the side-glass just to help cut cost. The last Focus redesign in 2005 was designed to help cut cost and improve quality and I'm sure the 2008 update will try and do the same.

It will cost more to change the C pillar than to change the side glass. It also kind of looks like the decklid is a little higher, but that could just be the effect of the camera angle...

 

07-18-06_1311.jpg

ford_focus_zx4s_2006_exterior_6_346x270.jpg

 

Also, the camo may be covering a spoiler.

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They did. it was a Festiva redux.

 

BTW, DRyanC, when I said "Fiesta" I meant "Fiesta" as in the European-built vehicle Ford imported during the last gas crisis:

 

26_October_2002_10.jpg

 

It flopped. Just like the Tracer, Festiva, and Aspire.

The Fiesta was a better car than the Escort that replaced it. Period. The Mazda built Tracer was a better car than the U.S. Escort of the period. If they failed it wasn't because they weren't good cars.

 

The Festiva and Aspire were crap.

 

The Contour wasn't killed because it was a flop, it was killed because the idiot product planners at Ford figured that there wasn't room in the line-up between the Focus and the Taraus for a small sedan. The existance of the Fusion is proof that thinking was wrong.

 

Stripper B cars, selling on the basis of economy alone, sour buyers on the brand, do not inspire loyalty, and frequently sell at a loss. Other than that, they're darn fine cars.

If Ford NA can't build small cars that will attract young buyers to the brand and inspire loyalty then they are ultimately doomed.

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The Fiesta was a better car than the Escort that replaced it. Period. The Mazda built Tracer was a better car than the U.S. Escort of the period. If they failed it wasn't because they weren't good cars.

 

The Festiva and Aspire were crap.

 

The Contour wasn't killed because it was a flop, it was killed because the idiot product planners at Ford figured that there wasn't room in the line-up between the Focus and the Taraus for a small sedan. The existance of the Fusion is proof that thinking was wrong.

Are we talking about the first Mercury Tracer, or the second one?

 

Point is that Ford's track record for federalizing "B" cars is lousy. There is no reason on earth to think that federalizing a B car is the answer to a question anyone is asking.

 

As far as the Contour being killed, you can look at the interior dimensions of the Contour and the Focus. You will find that the Focus is within fractions of an inch in headroom, legroom, and hiproom, front and back. The Contour wasn't a midsize car. It was thisclose to being a compact.

 

BTW, the Taurus is going away, so the Fusion (which has interior dimensions quite similar to the Taurus) does not exactly prove your point.

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