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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Global warming stopped 16 years ago


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461 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   TomServo92

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:19 PM

That didn't answer the question and I didn't deny that temperatures are rising. That's not where my fault is in the argument. What is the ideal global temperature we should all be aiming for?


There is no "ideal" temperature. In fact, I believe we might do MORE harm by trying to correct the Earth's temp than if we just let it correct itself. The Earth is an extremely complex system. We don't fully understand all the variables affecting it which s exactly why we shouldn't go off half-cocked and start f-Ing with it to "fix" it.

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#22 OFFLINE   Langston Hughes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

There is no "ideal" temperature. In fact, I believe we might do MORE harm by trying to correct the Earth's temp than if we just let it correct itself. The Earth is an extremely complex system. We don't fully understand all the variables affecting it which s exactly why we shouldn't go off half-cocked and start f-Ing with it to "fix" it.


A reduction of greenhouse gases is not an attempt to fix the earth, it is an attempt to stop having a negative impact on it. We should reduce our negative impacts on everything in life, such as pesticides, over fertilizing, relying on non-renewable carbon based energy. (Take a look at what Mountain top mining does to the land)

"Whenever the government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people they call it ‘subsidies.’ When they do it for Negro and poor people they call it ‘welfare.’ The fact is that everybody in this country lives on welfare. Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of ninety percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. That’s the problem." - MLK jr.

 

 

 

 

 

 


#23 OFFLINE   TomServo92

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:29 AM

A reduction of greenhouse gases is not an attempt to fix the earth, it is an attempt to stop having a negative impact on it. We should reduce our negative impacts on everything in life, such as pesticides, over fertilizing, relying on non-renewable carbon based energy. (Take a look at what Mountain top mining does to the land)


I don't disagree with that. Conservation and emissions reductions are a good thing. I get my electricity from a company that uses wind generated power exclusively.

What I'm addressing are some of the outrageously wild (and potentially very expensive) schemes coming out of the scientific community. For instance, wrapping icebergs in giant foil blankets to save them. They're melting because the earth is adjusting its temperature. We don't need to mess with it.

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#24 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:26 AM

A reduction of greenhouse gases is not an attempt to fix the earth, it is an attempt to stop having a negative impact on it. We should reduce our negative impacts on everything in life, such as pesticides, over fertilizing, relying on non-renewable carbon based energy. (Take a look at what Mountain top mining does to the land)


Those are fine and admirable goals and it is something we should strive for long-term, but the question then becomes how do we get there? You don't do it by crushing the economy through some dim-witted, short-sighted "cap-and-trade" scheme that does nothing but make a select few richer while really making little global impact at all. In the meantime, the earth isn't going to melt in the next 5 years because we didn't do something drastic today.

Edited by NickF1011, 16 October 2012 - 08:26 AM.

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#25 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:59 AM

Those are fine and admirable goals and it is something we should strive for long-term, but the question then becomes how do we get there? You don't do it by crushing the economy through some dim-witted, short-sighted "cap-and-trade" scheme that does nothing but make a select few richer while really making little global impact at all. In the meantime, the earth isn't going to melt in the next 5 years because we didn't do something drastic today.


But what about those island nations that are going to be flooded by a 4 inch rise in sea level?

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#26 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

But what about those island nations that are going to be flooded by a 4 inch rise in sea level?


I'll put them up in a hotel if that happens in the next 5 years.
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#27 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

You guys need to stop mixing pollution with carbon dioxide. We should take all reasonable means to stop pollution - especially water pollution.

Carbon dioxide isn't toxic. In fact it's necessary for life. It's not a pollutant and it doesn't endanger plants or animals.

Since there is a chance that carbon dioxide is contributing to global warming then I'm ok with taking reasonable means to reduce it just like we reduce other emissions.

What we're saying is not ok is to go off and spend billions of dollars on some scheme that *might* make some slight difference in global temps.
Especially when the people raising the alarm are the ones who stand to receive the billions that might be spent.

I'll be more of a believer when someone can explain how the Earth managed to warm up after the ice age without SUVs or industrialization to blame for it. If we're having any effect at all it's incremental and insignificant compared to the effects of the sun and other factors.
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#28 OFFLINE   xr7g428

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

Imagine that there was a train that consisted of nothing but large box cars. Each box car would be 10' wide, 10' tall and 50' long. Now imagine that the train had 200 of these box cars all in a row. This would be a train 2 miles long. The train is filled with air, the stuff we breathe every day. Now if we were to separate out the CO2, how many box cars would it fill?

Not even one. It would all fit in a box of just over 7' on each side. The part of the CO2 attributed to mankind, since the industrial revolution is about 1/10th of that.

If you have a million pennies in your pocket, ($10,000.00) and $3.85 of it were really hot, how much effect would it have on the temperature of the rest of the $9996.15?

Edited by xr7g428, 16 October 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#29 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

Imagine that there was a train that consisted of nothing but large box cars. Each box car would be 10' wide, 10' tall and 50' long. Now imagine that the train had 200 of these box cars all in a row. This would be a train 2 miles long. The train is filled with air, the stuff we breathe every day. Now if we were to separate out the CO2, how many box cars would it fill?

Not even one. It would all fit in a box of just over 7' on each side. The part of the CO2 attributed to mankind, since the industrial revolution is about 1/10th of that.

If you have a million pennies in your pocket, ($10,000.00) and $3.85 of it were really hot, how much effect would it have on the temperature of the rest of the $9996.15?


How dare you use logic you earth hater you!

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#30 OFFLINE   Langston Hughes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

Those are fine and admirable goals and it is something we should strive for long-term, but the question then becomes how do we get there? You don't do it by crushing the economy through some dim-witted, short-sighted "cap-and-trade" scheme that does nothing but make a select few richer while really making little global impact at all. In the meantime, the earth isn't going to melt in the next 5 years because we didn't do something drastic today.


No. You don't. You do it by leaving the solar panels on the roof of the white house in the early 80's and you resolve to make some serious continuous changes from that point on. But that's not what happened and even Free Market economists understand that the market will correct itself, but like what started in 2007 and we are just getting out of, those corrections are nasty. No one wants to keep enduring market corrections or Shock continuously but that's the energy policy of the GOP.

What is happening now is merely the unintended consequences of lousy energy policy that the GOP continues to promote. Drill here, Drill now is only a means to push the shock off on to our children and their children while we fail to innovate because their is no incentive.

We needed to expand our investment in renewables 30 years ago not now. Now is a little late but better than never.

"Whenever the government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people they call it ‘subsidies.’ When they do it for Negro and poor people they call it ‘welfare.’ The fact is that everybody in this country lives on welfare. Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of ninety percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. That’s the problem." - MLK jr.

 

 

 

 

 

 


#31 OFFLINE   Langston Hughes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:50 PM

Imagine that there was a train that consisted of nothing but large box cars. Each box car would be 10' wide, 10' tall and 50' long. Now imagine that the train had 200 of these box cars all in a row. This would be a train 2 miles long. The train is filled with air, the stuff we breathe every day. Now if we were to separate out the CO2, how many box cars would it fill?

Not even one. It would all fit in a box of just over 7' on each side. The part of the CO2 attributed to mankind, since the industrial revolution is about 1/10th of that.

If you have a million pennies in your pocket, ($10,000.00) and $3.85 of it were really hot, how much effect would it have on the temperature of the rest of the $9996.15?


Hmmm, that is interesting because we all know, or should know that our Oceans and plants sequester much of the carbon dioxide that would be released and that there are problems with the slight increase of Carbon dioxide such as ocean acidification. We've seen how little fertilizer actually has to make it into our water ways to cause algae issues and yet you continue to use oversimplifications and denial to act like we have no effect.

"Whenever the government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people they call it ‘subsidies.’ When they do it for Negro and poor people they call it ‘welfare.’ The fact is that everybody in this country lives on welfare. Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of ninety percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. That’s the problem." - MLK jr.

 

 

 

 

 

 


#32 OFFLINE   xr7g428

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

Langdad, does the math really challenge you that badly? Is the issue global warming caused by CO2 in the atmosphere? Or is it global warming caused by the sequestration of CO2 by plants? Use you own words, Try to stay away from talking points. What do the CO2 crowd really want?

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#33 OFFLINE   Langston Hughes

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:50 AM

Langdad, does the math really challenge you that badly? Is the issue global warming caused by CO2 in the atmosphere? Or is it global warming caused by the sequestration of CO2 by plants? Use you own words, Try to stay away from talking points. What do the CO2 crowd really want?


Please tell me what your conspiracy theory talking points suggest as that would just save time.

"Whenever the government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people they call it ‘subsidies.’ When they do it for Negro and poor people they call it ‘welfare.’ The fact is that everybody in this country lives on welfare. Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of ninety percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. That’s the problem." - MLK jr.

 

 

 

 

 

 


#34 OFFLINE   goinbroke2

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:57 AM

Cell phones...were they only invented or made widespead by the government restriction or outlawing of dial phones? Or were they a progression of an in-use product already? This green bullshit is akin to the gov stepping in one day and saying "as of Jan 2013, dial phones are illegal" but the cell phone hasn't been invented yet or is in it's infancy...say the bag phone for example. (this is their lightbulb stategy)

Microwave ovens...were they brought it as a competitor to regular ovens? Or did the gov say "as of Jan 2013 use of regular ovens must decrease by 50%" (because microwaves are more efficient) Regardless of the massive cash outlay a family would of had to spend when microwaves first came out.

The biggest "joke" is that the mandate requiring decrease of 50% of "regular oven use" is only for rich western countries! Everybody else can "cook over burning cow dung" (emitting 1000X the CO2) but only in rich western countries must we cook on "magic stoves" that only emit sunshine and lollypops and cost us 4X the cost of a regular oven!

There is an agenda here by the left, and it's not saving the earth from man.
Algorian Logic

A reasoning technique that entails reaching a conclusion about a subject in which one has no expertise and subsequently finding or creating factoids to support the supposition without using critical thinking skills or research to discern the obvious implausibility of the facts or the conclusion.

#35 OFFLINE   FiredMotorCompany

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:25 AM

But what about those island nations that are going to be flooded by a 4 inch rise in sea level?


I am buying property 50 miles inland to sell as "oceanfront" property when that happens. ;-)

Things to remember.........

You have been issued a warning by a moderator. Before you can post again, you must acknowledge the warning.

You cannot possibly be this thick-headed.   I've explained it over and over and over.   Take a 2 week vacation and think about it.
This is not the place for you to vent about what you don't like about Obama or democrats or whatever.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who don't have it".-George Bernard Shaw

 

Let it be known. My child's, my family's and my own life is equally precious as the president's and deserves equal rights of protection. Can you say the same for your child or yourself? Or do you have a "king"? ©2013-firedmotorcompany

All gun grabbers take note: Your child looked at you and believed you when you said you loved them and would protect them. ©2013-firedmotorcompany

I am sure you believe the president deserves a highly trained and well armed security force at all times......
but you value his life more than your own family. Tell them that tonight when you tuck them into bed.  ©2013-firedmotorcompany

 

"I am dumbfounded how little is expected of our politicians and how much is tolerated."-© 2013-FiredMotorCompany


#36 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

We needed to expand our investment in renewables 30 years ago not now. Now is a little late but better than never.


We've come a long way over the past 30 years if you haven't noticed. Perhaps we should go back to carburetors and no catalytic converters, since nothing we're doing now makes any difference anyway, right?
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#37 OFFLINE   Langston Hughes

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 02:04 AM

We've come a long way over the past 30 years if you haven't noticed. Perhaps we should go back to carburetors and no catalytic converters, since nothing we're doing now makes any difference anyway, right?


Really, is that the take your offering? Lets look at that.

http://www.epa.gov/o.../420r12001a.pdf

According to this report the auto industry made great strides under government pressure during the late 70's into the 80's and then stagnated for years because gas and oil was cheap (relative to inflation). Now they are moving heavily on it as guess what, SHOCK happened. Just like i suggested.

If government including the Democrats had pursued a steady continuation of CAFE standards we would have avoided the 4 dollar gas market driven move to better gas mileage. The Free Market is inefficient and responds only to crisis. I don't like living in a world of crisis management and prefer to do continuous preventative maintenance on future problems that we know will repeat itself. As history always does.

So your comment that we've come a long way since 1982 doesn't really ring true. We've come a long way since 1975 but very little of that was during the cheap oil days the past 20. And I should think that we might want to consider Goingbrokes #3 scenerio a little more often as applying funding and human capital to problems of the future by our government before they come along might just be a great idea. Or we could just drill here, drill now till we run out or supplies diminish and then let the market do it's thing.

"Whenever the government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people they call it ‘subsidies.’ When they do it for Negro and poor people they call it ‘welfare.’ The fact is that everybody in this country lives on welfare. Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of ninety percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. That’s the problem." - MLK jr.

 

 

 

 

 

 


#38 OFFLINE   FiredMotorCompany

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:39 PM


Please tell me what your conspiracy theory talking points suggest as that would just save time.

Try this on for size.

 

What Global Warming? 2012 Data Confirms Earth In Cooling Trend

Things to remember.........

You have been issued a warning by a moderator. Before you can post again, you must acknowledge the warning.

You cannot possibly be this thick-headed.   I've explained it over and over and over.   Take a 2 week vacation and think about it.
This is not the place for you to vent about what you don't like about Obama or democrats or whatever.

Warning issued by akirby from Profile.
Given 5 points.
Ability to create content removed for 14 days.
Suspended for 14 days


*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who don't have it".-George Bernard Shaw

 

Let it be known. My child's, my family's and my own life is equally precious as the president's and deserves equal rights of protection. Can you say the same for your child or yourself? Or do you have a "king"? ©2013-firedmotorcompany

All gun grabbers take note: Your child looked at you and believed you when you said you loved them and would protect them. ©2013-firedmotorcompany

I am sure you believe the president deserves a highly trained and well armed security force at all times......
but you value his life more than your own family. Tell them that tonight when you tuck them into bed.  ©2013-firedmotorcompany

 

"I am dumbfounded how little is expected of our politicians and how much is tolerated."-© 2013-FiredMotorCompany


#39 OFFLINE   FiredMotorCompany

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:44 PM

I was so conflicted. Whether I should post this here or

The "Thrill Is Gone"-The Collapse Of Obama-mania

 

 

But, I decided this was best.

 

 

Obama's Organizing for America can't pull in ONE SINGLE "WARM" BODY to show up for a Climate Change Rally. Not even Al Gore had time to make an appearance.

 

OFA Gets Zero Attendance for Climate Change Rally

Edited by FiredMotorCompany, 13 August 2013 - 08:51 PM.

Things to remember.........

You have been issued a warning by a moderator. Before you can post again, you must acknowledge the warning.

You cannot possibly be this thick-headed.   I've explained it over and over and over.   Take a 2 week vacation and think about it.
This is not the place for you to vent about what you don't like about Obama or democrats or whatever.

Warning issued by akirby from Profile.
Given 5 points.
Ability to create content removed for 14 days.
Suspended for 14 days


*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who don't have it".-George Bernard Shaw

 

Let it be known. My child's, my family's and my own life is equally precious as the president's and deserves equal rights of protection. Can you say the same for your child or yourself? Or do you have a "king"? ©2013-firedmotorcompany

All gun grabbers take note: Your child looked at you and believed you when you said you loved them and would protect them. ©2013-firedmotorcompany

I am sure you believe the president deserves a highly trained and well armed security force at all times......
but you value his life more than your own family. Tell them that tonight when you tuck them into bed.  ©2013-firedmotorcompany

 

"I am dumbfounded how little is expected of our politicians and how much is tolerated."-© 2013-FiredMotorCompany


#40 OFFLINE   TomServo92

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 09:14 PM

I saw this one today:

 

As The Economy Recesses, Obama's Global Warming Delusions Are Truly Cruel

 

It seems many of the pro-MMGW crowd are re-thinking their position.

 

That global temperature record has been flat lining for 16 years now.  As the website Climate Depot reported in response to Obama, “The halt in global temperatures has shown up in multiple data sets and peer-reviewed literature.”  Even NASA’s James Hansen, the bureaucratic godfather of global warming hysterics, admits that the global temperature standstill is real, according to the Global Warming Policy Foundation.  “The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade,” Hansen said on January 15.

 

Professor Werner Kirstein of the Institute for Geography at the University of Leipzig told MDR German Public Radio that sensational PR claims of the hottest year or hottest decade on record are just political spin, because they are based on year-to-year temperature data that differs by only a few hundredths of a degree.  As Hansen told reporters on January 13, “2010 differed from 2005 by less than 2 hundredths of a degree F (that’s 0.018F).”  And those are global averages reflecting a composite of hundreds of local weather station observations worldwide, a concoction that borders on alchemy.

Top Swedish climate scientist Dr. Lennart Bengtsson, who has served on the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the official global warming advocacy body, was also quoted publicly on February 3 as saying,

“We are creating great anxiety without it being justified…there are no indications that the warming is so severe that we need to panic.  The warming we have had the last a 100 years is so small that if we didn’t have meteorologists and climatologists to measure it we wouldn’t have noticed it at all.  The Earth appears to have cooling properties that exceed the previously thought ones, and computer models are inadequate to try to foretell a chaotic object like the climate, where actual observations are the only way to go.”

 

The award winning Bengtsson, highly decorated by scientific bodies across the globe, also pointed out that the heating effect of carbon dioxide (CO2) is logarithmic, which means the higher the concentration is, the smaller the effect of a further increase.  That is why historical proxy data going back millennia show much greater concentrations of CO2 — 10, 20 or 30 times today’s levels – with no associated catastrophic global temperatures.  That lack of association between temperature trends and CO2 has continued over the last century, as the up and down pattern of global temperatures over the past 100 years does not follow the upward climb of CO2 as the industrial revolution has expanded globally.  It follows instead the pattern of natural causes, such as sunspot cycles, and ocean temperature cycles.

Bengtsson reported as well, “The sea level has risen fairly evenly for a hundred years by 2-3 millimeters per year. The pitch has not accelerated.”  That is because the sea level has been rising as the Earth has been recovering from the freezing period of the Little Ice Age.  It is not due to man-caused global warming.


"We live in a society of wolves. You do not fight back by creating more sheep!" - Dan Bongino, Former Secret Service agent

 

"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." - Terry Pratchett, author









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