Myford touch to be replaced with windows8 GUI

[Biker16]

http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Customer+Preview+Coming+in+June+Sources+Say+Ford+to+Use+Windows+8+Metro+UI/article24530.htm

 

]II. Sources: Windows 8 Takes UI, Touch Load Off Ford's Shoulders[/b]

 

Our sources close to Ford Motor Comp. (F) recently indicated that a Windows 8 variant will likely drive the next generation successor to MyFord Touch.

 

This is an interesting, but not altogether unexpected development. Microsoft has long produced the OS used by Ford -- Windows Embedded Automotive, and the latest version (v7), was built on a trimmed down version of Windows 7.

 

But the information is also interesting because of the highlighted implications for Ford, and the industry in general.

 

Windows 8 in many ways represents a solution to many of Ford's headaches. While Ford is undeniably the leader in automotive infotainment with the most features and the most cohesive user interface, it also has suffered from growing pains. As the feature set grew, Ford has been compelled to contract out user interface development to third-party partners at times, and has found those partners to not always produce work of the same high quality as Ford's.

 

[RichardJensen]

I like Metro, and I think the four corner layout of the MFT front page can be adapted to Metro

[GT-Keith]

Excellent! Tiles is a superior interface to our current grid-of-icons with a lot less wasted/white space with the ability to sypher relavent information faster. However, I think I would prefer a Windows Phone 7, live-tile interface just a little bit more. The inspirtation for the Metro UI was brought about by some 60's art deco, so this interface would allow Lincoln to better guise the UI to fit their new design direction. I like the tile theme and I'm glad it was Microsoft that pushed the GUI forward in technologies like tiles and Kinect.

 

Also, Windows Phone 7, which I believe they're referring to, shares its roots in Windows CE of which a similar kernel underpins past Windows Mobile devices. For the 7.0 Kernel, the CE codebase got a major ovehaul. Its not just the desktop Windows with a touch-friendly UI plastered on or a glorified app launcher, much in the way that Android is to Linux, but its a purpose built operating system, which also would explain WP7's superior performance... Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Ironically, my next car will be a Ford and my next phone with be Windows-baed. I'm excited for this ironic amalgam. Nice find, Biker.

Edited April 25, 2012 by GT-Keith

[svtenthusiast]

Bleh, It would just be nice if they would get the current system working before they take another jump.

 

I have never had a problem with the original layout design, the update took a step backwards in this regard.

 

Maybe some appreciate it being "simpler" but I don't. I just want the bugs worked out which still has not happened yet.

[silvrsvt]

Bleh, It would just be nice if they would get the current system working before they take another jump.

 

I have never had a problem with the original layout design, the update took a step backwards in this regard.

 

Maybe some appreciate it being "simpler" but I don't. I just want the bugs worked out which still has not happened yet.

 

It sounds to me like Windows 8 will be the next gen MFT....and I'd still expect bug patches to come out for the current MFT...and the current hardware for MFT doesn't seem like it would be able to run Win 8 on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it could.

 

Though it does raise the question as to when we'll see the next gen MFT

 

I plan on getting a Win 8 tablet when they come out later this year..I was fairly impressed with the consumer preview I played with on my desktop...not sure if I'll upgrade to Win 8 on my desktop or Laptop, but I'm def getting a tablet with it..and I have an iPad 2 already...

[fordmantpw]

I think this will be a great move, and I'm not really surprised. I would expect a hardware upgrade to come with it as well, to eliminate some of the speed issues. I think this will be a nice change for MFT, and hopefully it will be in place before our next new vehicle in 3-4 years.

 

I plan on getting a Win 8 tablet when they come out later this year..I was fairly impressed with the consumer preview I played with on my desktop...not sure if I'll upgrade to Win 8 on my desktop or Laptop, but I'm def getting a tablet with it..and I have an iPad 2 already...

 

Same here (only I have an Android tablet and not an iPad). I love Windows Phone 7 (.5). It is extremely fast, and has a great UI, and I prefer it over my iPod Touch. I can't wait to see Win 8 on a tablet, as I think that is where it will really shine. When I upgrade my desktop/laptop, I will probably keep the Win 7 ish UI look as I think it just works better with a mouse vs. the metro look with a touchscreen.

[NickF1011]

Bleh, It would just be nice if they would get the current system working before they take another jump.

 

I have never had a problem with the original layout design, the update took a step backwards in this regard.

 

Maybe some appreciate it being "simpler" but I don't. I just want the bugs worked out which still has not happened yet.

 

I disagree with every part of this:

 

My update has been bug free.

 

The new layout is cleaner and looks far nicer.

 

Any "features" that appear to be missing are things I apparently never used in the first place.

 

The new version is a 10,000% improvement over the original design.

[GT-Keith]

Bleh, It would just be nice if they would get the current system working before they take another jump.

 

I have never had a problem with the original layout design, the update took a step backwards in this regard.

 

Maybe some appreciate it being "simpler" but I don't. I just want the bugs worked out which still has not happened yet.

 

The biggest hurdle with MFT is the learning curve, the new design will reduce it quite a bit. The sooner they roll this out, the better.

[Hugh]

Will current MFT owners get the next-gen update or will they have updates from the current system? I see Ford has the potential to have to have 2 separate systems to deal with. I'm sure the Palo Alto gang can figure that out.

[RichardJensen]

Excellent! Tiles is a superior interface to our current grid-of-icons with a lot less wasted/white space with the ability to sypher relavent information faster. However, I think I would prefer a Windows Phone 7, live-tile interface just a little bit more. The inspirtation for the Metro UI was brought about by some 60's art deco, so this interface would allow Lincoln to better guise the UI to fit their new design direction.

Well, the MFT layout is not a 'grid of icons', it's already on its way to being a tiled layout.

 

Also, I fully expect the layout to use 'live tiles', with real-time displayed in the home screen quadrants, etc.

 

And a bit of a correction: The Metro interface is based on 50s and 60s Swiss modern graphic design, as filtered through current sensibilities (for instance, they use a humanist font instead of a gothic). It's not Art Deco.

 

 

(BTW, I'm not a fan of their choice of Segoe as a font, but that's because I'm a cranky purist, and find the not-quite-humanist character of Segoe to be a sort of 'neither-fish-nor-fowl' beast. Also it reminds me vaguely of Antique Olive which I do not like at all)

[silvrsvt]

Will current MFT owners get the next-gen update or will they have updates from the current system? I see Ford has the potential to have to have 2 separate systems to deal with. I'm sure the Palo Alto gang can figure that out.

 

Well there is a point where Ford is going to have to stop supporting the current MFT and move onto a new version due to Obsolescence issues etc. The real issue is that people normally keep cars for 5 plus years, but they only keep cell phones and other electronic devices for 2 years or so.

 

I wonder if there is going to be a huge issue with a 2012 Focus when say the iPhone 5 comes out in 2016/17 or so...I'd assume the connectors will stay the same (maybe move to USB3, but AFAK its backwards compatible and I'm assuming Bluetooth isn't going to change much either) but you never know...

Edited April 25, 2012 by silvrsvt

[akirby]

How is it any different than folks today who have Navigation with Sync? You have what you bought, maybe with a few software updates. But I don't expect my 08 Edge to be upgraded to MFT.

 

If it's just an APIM swap then it might be possible to allow upgrades to current MFT owners but I certainly wouldn't expect it. I would just expect what I bought to continue working.

[svtenthusiast]

I disagree with every part of this: That's your right, but that doesn't mean you are correct.

 

My update has been bug free. Good for you! Many people have not been as fortunate as you have. Over 50 bugs listed at http://outofmytouch.com

 

The new layout is cleaner and looks far nicer. Your opinion.

 

Any "features" that appear to be missing are things I apparently never used in the first place. Your preference and opinion.

 

The new version is a 10,000% improvement over the original design. Your opinion.

[fordmantpw]

Well there is a point where Ford is going to have to stop supporting the current MFT and move onto a new version due to Obsolescence issues etc. The real issue is that people normally keep cars for 5 plus years, but they only keep cell phones and other electronic devices for 2 years or so.

 

I wonder if there is going to be a huge issue with a 2012 Focus when say the iPhone 5 comes out in 2016/17 or so...I'd assume the connectors will stay the same (maybe move to USB3, but AFAK its backwards compatible and I'm assuming Bluetooth isn't going to change much either) but you never know...

 

Maybe the iPhone 5 will finally support BT properly!

[aneekr]

I'm not a fan of their choice of Segoe as a font, but that's because I'm a cranky purist, and find the not-quite-humanist character of Segoe to be a sort of 'neither-fish-nor-fowl' beast.

 

I agree with you regarding the Segoe font. My personal preference (for an automotive infotainment system, anyway) leans to a traditional neo-grotesque sans-serif font like Univers or Helvetica. I think the latter is currently used in MyFordTouch.

 

As far as similar humanist typefaces are concerned, do you like Fruitiger or Myriad better than Segoe?

[stpatrick90]

 

For what it is worth I agree with Nick on this one. Since our Explorer has received the update it has been working so much better. I don't deny that some people may still be facing issues but I feel that there are more people who do not still have issues. Only the people who have issues still are going to go out of their way to say something, someone who has a system working properly doesn't have the need to go out of their way to say that their system is working well.

[RichardJensen]

I agree with you regarding the Segoe font. My personal preference (for an automotive infotainment system, anyway) leans to a traditional neo-grotesque sans-serif font like Univers or Helvetica. I think the latter is currently used in MyFordTouch.

 

As far as similar humanist typefaces are concerned, do you like Fruitiger or Myriad better than Segoe?

 

Definitely prefer Frutiger. Once you've thinned down the stroke weight (i.e. Segoe/Myriad), I think the humanist touches become more pastiche than effective 'handles' for legibility.

 

Of course, if I'm going humanist, I'll either go with a demi-serif, or a font with a greater contrast in stroke weight.

[akirby]

What you have is a very small and very vocal group of Focus owners who seem to have gone out of their way to look for and report bugs. And they're pissed off about some of the GUI changes which aren't actually bugs.

 

If you look around at other websites including Focus websites you don't see the same complaints. It's like they went into a feeding frenzy. I guess there is a reason they're called Focus Fanatics.

[Biker16]

What you have is a very small and very vocal group of Focus owners who seem to have gone out of their way to look for and report bugs. And they're pissed off about some of the GUI changes which aren't actually bugs.

 

If you look around at other websites including Focus websites you don't see the same complaints. It's like they went into a feeding frenzy. I guess there is a reason they're called Focus Fanatics.

 

the current system is too inflexible. you can't have it operate in advanced mode for some users and in basic mode for other users. with the update they dumbed it down, but for power users it was definitely not an improvement. With a off the shelf system like win8 you can invest more time into the capabilities of the system and less into the interface and and the guts of the OS.

 

I can imagine for Microsoft how imbarassing it was to have their name affiliated with the MFT fiasco, when they really weren't to blame for it's performance.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Biker16

[akirby]

the current system is too inflexible. you can't have it operate in advanced mode for some users and in basic mode for other users. with the update they dumbed it down, but for power users it was definitely not an improvement. With a off the shelf system like win8 you can invest more time into the capabilities of the system and less into the interface and and the guts of the OS.

 

Why is Windows CE not "off the shelf"?

 

Which smart phone or tablet today gives you Advanced and Basic modes?

 

What would be different about an "Advanced" mode?

[NickF1011]

For what it is worth I agree with Nick on this one. Since our Explorer has received the update it has been working so much better. I don't deny that some people may still be facing issues but I feel that there are more people who do not still have issues. Only the people who have issues still are going to go out of their way to say something, someone who has a system working properly doesn't have the need to go out of their way to say that their system is working well.

 

Exactly. The experience has improved dramatically for the vast majority of owners. That's not opinion.

 

 

 

In the end, this changeover to the Windows 8 UI is really no surprise at all. After all, one of the flavors of Windows 8 was designed to replace the Windows CE garbage that MFT was originally based around. Only makes sense that the next gen system would be based on the next gen base software. :shrug: And no, I really don't expect the older MFT vehicles to be forever continuously updated to be compatible with new devices. Planned obsolescence. Such is life in the auto industry.

Edited April 25, 2012 by NickF1011

[Biker16]

Why is Windows CE not "off the shelf"?

 

Windows CE was not the issue with MFT the Issue As I understand it was the execution of the GUI, and the APis that under pined that GUI.

 

all of which was not a issue of windows CE.

 

Which smart phone or tablet today gives you Advanced and Basic modes?

 

What would be different about an "Advanced" mode?

 

smartphones are not cars. an advanced buyer of smart phone would buy an advanced smartphone, a novice buyer of a smart phone wouldn't buy a smartphone or by an Iphone, that their children can teach them to use.

 

It is customary for camcorders to have a basic and an advanced mode.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Biker16

[akirby]

Windows CE was not the issue with MFT the Issue As I understand it was the execution of the GUI, and the APis that under pined that GUI.

 

all of which was not a issue of windows CE.

 

The problem with MFT was the application software and the fact it was written in Flash. None of that has anything to do with the underlying OS therefore moving the OS to Windows 8 won't make any difference. It still comes down to the application code.

 

smartphones are not cars.

 

Let's see....with MFT I can make and receive phone calls, play music, get navigation maps and directions and (eventually) browse the internet.

 

EXACTLY the same things you do with a smart phone or tablet with the exception of hvac controls. So the analogy is correct.

[svtenthusiast]

What you have is a very small and very vocal group of Focus owners who seem to have gone out of their way to look for and report bugs. And they're pissed off about some of the GUI changes which aren't actually bugs.

 

If you look around at other websites including Focus websites you don't see the same complaints. It's like they went into a feeding frenzy. I guess there is a reason they're called Focus Fanatics.

 

Don't generalize it being only a Focus problem. And them "going out of their way" to report bugs can only help other Ford owners and Ford themselves improve their systems. This is stuff companies pay big money for, testers and consultant groups to find bugs and break their systems, you know, so the customer doesn't have to. They are lucky they have a group of loyal and vocal (as you call it) owners to hold them accountable. There is only one difference between the Focus MFT and the others, and that's the demise of the shortcut buttons on the steering wheel that now are not able to be configured. And that's a cut and dry complaint; I won't be suprised if a lawsuit arises out of that one.

 

on your search of "other" websites, you haven't been looking too hard. you only have to go as far as Ford's own SYNC community forums to find multiple complains from Focus, Edge, and Explorer owners. All speaking about lost fuctionality, bugs, step back in graphical interface. They are some that are asking to be reverted back to the old system, which unfortunately cannot be done.

 

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5207

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5345

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5221

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5190

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5342

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5141

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5124

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5081

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5151

http://boards.syncco...syncmb&tid=5110

Edited April 26, 2012 by svtenthusiast

[BORG]

I can't imagine anything resembling Metro appearing on a car dashboard. But the platform (and hardware profile), will be a substantial improvement.

Edited April 26, 2012 by BORG