akirby Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) . Buyers are voting with their feet and staying away from Fiesta and those ridiculous deals compared to larger, more feature laden Focus. To put it simply, Ford is pushing the Focus and forgetting Fiesta as in hiding it on lot and hoping no one buys it. And? Why is that bad? Maybe it's better for Ford to sell more Focii and less Fiestas. Edited April 4, 2012 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And again, it's not ONE month, as Fiesta sales are down over 20% for last THREE months. Focus is production restrained and with record high gas prices for this time of year, Ford needs to at least offer better lease deals on Fiesta than it does Focus. In this region, you can lease a Focus SE for $149/month with about $1900 down, and best lease deal I've seen on Fiesta is about $169/month with about same money down. That is ridiculous. Buyers are voting with their feet and staying away from Fiesta and those ridiculous deals compared to larger, more feature laden Focus. To put it simply, Ford is pushing the Focus and forgetting Fiesta as in hiding it on lot and hoping no one buys it. :rolleyes: The Fiesta is a failure! Go ahead and say it. You know you want to. Ugh. Despite being down some and being just short of a refresh (that's coming next year, remember?), it's still one of the better-selling B-cars on the market. Ford shouldn't resort to giving them away just to make the sales numbers look more rosy. The profit margins in the B-segment are thin enough as it is. Ford is instead pushing the Focus because they have a lot more leeway to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And? Why is that bad? Maybe it's better for Ford to sell more Fusions and less Fiestas. That's definitely the industry pattern (even though I think you meant to say Focus, your point remains). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Trouble is GM sales are up 12 percent and Chrysler's are up 34 percent. I know Chrysler's sales were dismal last year, but still I am disappointed with Ford's weak 5 percent increase. Be careful Joe! That is exactly what I said, and tried to inject some logical concern, but I got slammed! As if I don't know it is just a single month....etc. If the market is up 13% as a whole and your sales are up just 5%, then I think it is reasonable to say your performance as was just so- so for the month. Not gloom and doom, or you should not update your vehicles...just saying that it is so-so. Edited April 4, 2012 by Kev-Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 "of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold." Should Big Gov't ban all import makes then? "Ford will lose sales when they phase out old Fusion and Escape"! Then Ford should never update their cars, God forbid! Why so sarcastic? Never said they should not update. I said - it would be reasonable to think that the new models would take some time to catch on -thereby resulting in a dip in overall sales of the model. I think the new Fusion is spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Be careful Joe! That is exactly what I said, and tried to inject some logical concern, but I got slammed! Your concern was most illogical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Your concern was most illogical. So the overall market is up 13% and one leading company is only up 5% - that is illogical? That would equate to a loss of market share - no? Edited April 4, 2012 by Kev-Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So the overall market is up 13% and one leading company is only up 5% - that is ilogical? That would equate to a loss of market share - no? Compared to March 2011, a month when Asian companies were suffering from Tsunami-related issues and GM and Chrysler were still trying to recover from their bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Compared to March 2011, a month when Asian companies were suffering from Tsunami-related issues and GM and Chrysler were still trying to recover from their bankruptcy. Ok, I don't want to argue with anyone - but when you look at the big picture - it is just so-so. I guess I see it as an opportunity to hold the big lead you had when the competition was struggling - but that lead has certainly eroded. I understand that Ford is shifting from cars that people have to buy (because they are cheap) to cars that people aspire to buy, and that will not lead to a sales title. But I don’t believe that Ford’s goal is to be #3. Let’s just move on. Edited April 4, 2012 by Kev-Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Be careful Joe! That is exactly what I said, and tried to inject some logical concern, but I got slammed! As if I don't know it is just a single month....etc. If the market is up 13% as a whole and your sales are up just 5%, then I think it is reasonable to say your performance as was just so- so for the month. Not gloom and doom, or you should not update your vehicles...just saying that it is so-so. What don't you get? Focus, Edge, F-Series, Fusion, and Escape had record or near record sales. How the hell can Ford do better than that. Additonally, Mustang, Flex, and Taurus did very well for month. Sure, Ford used to do 280,000/month when they were BIGGER and had much more production capacity. I would say 250,000 sales/month is about Ford's limit assuming all plants are operating on all cylinders. Ford has closed lots of plants and that includes recent St. Thomas and Twin Cities plus KCAP closes for year starting this month. So AGAIN, how the hell can Ford increase its sales over last year double digits with greatly reduced production capacity? And remember, Ford had a very good year last year unlike Toyota, VW, Chrysler, and a few others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Where did I say it wasn't important? If it wasn't important I would advocate that Ford pull out of the segment. Just saying that there's no reason to get worked up over a sales month where the Fiesta was again one of the top performers in its small segment, even if it didn't set any sales records. I corrected the word tiny with a more accurate word growing. I believe you took issue with that. also the light trucks vs Car issue The notion that these CUVs are light trucks, hides the fact that car based platform they are based on are now dominating the US auto market, not the Truck based SUVs that were dominant 5-6 years ago. you need 800,000 focuses and 250,000 C-maxes sold to make the 250,000 units of the escape possible. most of the CUVs in this country would not exist without a Volume car platform to underpin them. So when you minimize the importance of Car sales volume, you ignore the fact that CUVs are sourced from cars, without the car platforms their would not be as many CUVs on the market today. Without the Focus their wouldn't be an escape, without the fusion their would not be an edge, without the Taurus their would not have been a freestyle, or explorer or flex or MKS, or MKT. in the case of the yaris vs It's CUV platform mate the Xd for Toyota it isn't the volume of the Yaris that concerns them but the total platform volume of the platform, as long they are selling something off the platform they are happy, If they sell more profitable XDs and PriusCs than Yaris they make more money than sell a equal volume of Yaris alone. also for Toyota they sell only 5% of all Yaris volume in the US. Ford has been using the same math with D4, which is while they do not sell a ton of flexes or MKTs they are benefiting from the volume of the platform as a whole. In closing, do not let sales volumes prejudice the success or failure of a product, thing can be more complex than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I corrected the word tiny with a more accurate word growing. I believe you took issue with that. I took issue because it wasn't a "correction" or "more accurate". If you had simply said "It's tiny, but it's growing" I wouldn't have commented on it. Even if it's growing, it's still tiny. also the light trucks vs Car issue The notion that these CUVs are light trucks, hides the fact that car based platform they are based on are now dominating the US auto market, not the Truck based SUVs that were dominant 5-6 years ago. you need 800,000 focuses and 250,000 C-maxes sold to make the 250,000 units of the escape possible. most of the CUVs in this country would not exist without a Volume car platform to underpin them. The Escape would be able to ride on its own platform just fine if it had to. The Mustang is doing it with far less volume. They share platforms because they can and it simply makes sense to do so. They really don't have to. And frankly, the current Escape hasn't shared a platform with a Ford car for years now. Without the Focus their wouldn't be an escape The only Escape ever to be based on the Focus platform is the new 2013, so that's entirely untrue. without the fusion their would not be an edge, without the Taurus their would not have been a freestyle, or explorer or flex or MKS, or MKT. Fusion and Edge platform sharing is pretty minimal really. And one could argue there would be no Taurus if there was no Volvo XC90. Fact is, most of those vehicles would have existed anyway. Sharing platforms simply makes profits that much better. In closing, do not let sales volumes prejudice the success or failure of a product, thing can be more complex than that. I don't recall ever calling the Fiesta a failure. In fact, I've been saying the exact opposite. In its class (which is still pretty small, despite growth) it performs admirably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And frankly, the current Escape hasn't shared a platform with a Ford car for years now. The Escape never shared a platform with a Ford product...it was based on the old Mazda 626 platform... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The Escape never shared a platform with a Ford product...it was based on the old Mazda 626 platform... Well, I was painting with the broad Mazda=Ford brush... :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 as an opportunity to hold the big lead you had when the competition was struggling But this isn't a race. If Ford is maxed out on capacity (they are) then there's not much they can do as far as growing market share in a growing market. Additional capacity is coming on line (AAI, KCAP, Louisville) but it's not here yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 What don't you get? Focus, Edge, F-Series, Fusion, and Escape had record or near record sales. How the hell can Ford do better than that. Additonally, Mustang, Flex, and Taurus did very well for month. With all the growth of our current models where is the future growth going to come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 With all the growth of our current models where is the future growth going to come from? If you can correctly answer that question, you would be more qualified than any CEO of any car company today. Automakers rarely know too far ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 With all the growth of our current models where is the future growth going to come from? Isn't that why you keep improving your products? Most of the time you can't read between the lines on whats going to be "hot" and what isn't going to be....for Every Explorer sized hit, you have a Crosstour turd hit the market, trying to figure out what will resonate with the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You also have to keep in mind that Ford lost market-share last year and they are trying to utilize their limited capacity for higher profitability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You also have to keep in mind that Ford lost market-share last year Actually, they gained market share last year: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=35878 # Third consecutive year of higher U.S. market share and three-point share gain over the period for Ford brand; higher share in Asia Pacific Africa; three consecutive quarters of year-over-year share gains in Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Toyota is selling the Camry with a pretty good incentive, at least they are here in the southeast. A 2012 Camry L with 6 speed automatic can be had for $19,495. I test drove one and it was actually a pretty well equipped car at that price with pretty good performance. So it's not surprising that it blew the Fusion out of the water . I don't know if Toyota is making or losing money on the Camry by selling it at that price. But I do know they've been selling the 2012 Camry L at that price sense last fall so I have my doubts that it's losing them any money. There's no way to know for sure. The Focus did as well as the Corolla this month but I have to wonder how much of that number was dumped into fleets. Both Focus and Corolla get sold to fleets obviously but Ford has taken a lot of bad press lately for how much of it's business is fleet sales. I wonder what the actual percentage is for both cars. Nobody is going to say. One thing I do know is that the new Focus does not sell well around here although I hear that its getting popular on the west coast. The Fiesta doesn't sell well at all here despite the high gas prices. I think a lot of people just find it too small. I didn't mind the size, I just didn't like the lack of a center arm rest. It was a good month all around for both companies, that much is certain. It could be that people are waiting for the Fusion redesign before opting to buy while the Camry just had a refresh that is attracting buyers. fleet sales of focii are insignificant....corolla on the other hand....2013 Fiesta has an armrest... Edited April 4, 2012 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Trouble is GM sales are up 12 percent and Chrysler's are up 34 percent. I know Chrysler's sales were dismal last year, but still I am disappointed with Ford's weak 5 percent increase. simple Math. amuses me people dont get it....if one month you sell 10 cars the next you sell 15 its a huge increase PERCENTAGE wise. If you sell 100 one month and 125 the next its a smaller increase....which do you think is the better scenario?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 But this isn't a race. If Ford is maxed out on capacity (they are) then there's not much they can do as far as growing market share in a growing market. Additional capacity is coming on line (AAI, KCAP, Louisville) but it's not here yet. Back in the 90's, Ford used two plants to make the Taurus, Focus, Explorer, and four plants to make F-150. F-Series now uses three plants and F-150 uses only two of the three. No other vehicle is produced at more than one plant. Fusion will be first when AAI comes on line. Right now, Fusion, Escape, and Focus are at capacity limits or mighty close. When LAP finally gets up to speed, it will be making the new MKEscape also, and I would bet it will sell in 5,000/month range if it's a hit. So it will be next year before Ford can really start selling more vehicles in double digit increase fashion assuming the ecomomy is still rebounding. Lots of headwind on that assumption though. To top it off, Explorer is really production restrained as they share with Taurus/MKS and P.I. I doubt if Ford could sell more than 13,000/month even if there was market for more. On the bright side, it sure beats having two plants dedicated to your top sellers, overproducing, and then having to do big incentives to clear lots, increase fleet sales to a level that destroys residual values, and lose money as company. So I'd rather see Ford production constrained, low incentives, sane levels of fleet sales, and higher ATP's translating into sizable profits for company. The two plant Fusion plant probably works out because Hermosillo ships to South American and Canada and maybe AAI will produce high end Fusion ST and Energi models that make big profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 My bad.....Escort, not Focus. Escort was made at Wayne Assembly and Hermosillo. Still love seeing the wagon on the road all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) My bad.....Escort, not Focus. Escort was made at Wayne Assembly and Hermosillo. Still love seeing the wagon on the road all over. I think the Focus or Escape or something else out there was also built in 2 plants for awhile? Edited April 4, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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