Ford March 2012 Sales

[RichardJensen]

The Versa, Fit, Soul, 500, Mini, Accent, Rio and Sonic are not EPA subcompacts.

 

There were 16,579 EPA subcompacts sold last month. 6502 of them were Fiestas

 

The Fiesta was the best selling subcompact on the market.

 

You can quibble with the EPA's definitions, but they're better than "A list of small cars I came up with."

 

(Also, in case you think I'm splitting hairs over interior volume: The Yaris is officially a compact, but by .01 cubic feet, so I included it in the subcompact list--every other vehicle that was excluded was *well* outside the thresholds of the EPA's category. Especially the Versa & Soul)

[RichardJensen]

And if you want to adopt the "European system is better" attitude, I'd point out that the European system is based on engine size and vehicle length, NOT usable space. Basing a vehicle's classification on USABLE SPACE as opposed to engine or length makes far more sense to me.

[RichardJensen]

And, please, allow me to anticipate a further objection:

 

If you are going to include the Versa, Soul, Sonic and Fit, then you'd best include the Focus, as all of those vehicles have as much or more passenger space/cargo volume than the Focus.

Edited April 5, 2012 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

And, please, allow me to anticipate a further objection:

 

If you are going to include the Versa, Soul, Sonic and Fit, then you'd best include the Focus, as all of those vehicles have as mareuch or more passenger space/cargo volume than the Focus.

 

are you done?

 

you make valid points, yet you do realize the perils of comparing cars on size alone.

 

my list is not some random grouping of cars but fundamentally represents how alot people view the market. The versa competes with the fiesta and the yaris does not compete with the focus.

 

you may not like it but it is based the actual marketplace perception,not outdated EPA numbers.

 

the Cruze and sonic are not midsized cars no matter what the EPA says.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Biker16

[NickF1011]

The versa competes with the fiesta and the yaris does not compete with the focus.

 

Says who?

[RichardJensen]

fundamentally

 

 

 

represents how alot people view the market. The versa competes with the fiesta and the yaris does not compete with the focus.

 

 

 

you may not like it but it is based the actual marketplace perception,not outdated EPA numbers.

 

the cruze and sonic are not midsized cars no matter what the EPA says.

'How a lot of people view the market'.

 

"actual marketplace perception"

 

CITATION NEEDED.

 

Also, the Versa and Sonic are COMPACT cars per the EPA's size classifications.

 

Finally, I'm chuckling inwardly at your predictable dismissal of 'outdated' EPA classifications; especially when their logical designations are contrasted with your utterly arbitrary and reflexively defined list of 'B-cars'.

[RichardJensen]

For those of you interested in how the EPA defines vehicle classes:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_size_class#USA_regulations

 

Also, please do not fall into the Biker16 trap of assuming that a system is bad because it was either invented or adopted by the US government.

 

Any system that divides a continuum of vehicles into certain defined sizes will have outliers and near-misses. Vehicles like the Honda Accord, generally considered mid size but which is barely into the full size category for instance.

 

Rest assured that the Sonic, Fit and Versa are well into the "COMPACT" class.

[silvrsvt]

 

 

Rest assured that the Sonic, Fit and Versa are well into the "COMPACT" class.

 

not to mention a Honda Fit Dwarfs a 1990's Civic Hatchback

 

 

 

 

[Biker16]

IIRC the Escape was made at OHAP for a whopping three years or something along those lines...that was rather strange, considering the sales of it now vs back then...

 

 

 

 

 

like due to the union work rules of the day.

[Edstock]

my list is not some random grouping of cars but fundamentally represents how a lot people view the market.

 

Are you done? Try including some facts behind your opinions.

[Gnostic]

Bikers list is actually the cheapest car each manufacture makes. So they are grouped by price not by size. I think its a valid comparison. When people go to buy a car they don't say I'm going to look at B-cars. They shop on on lots of criteria but price is one of the biggest.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gnostic

[fordmantpw]

Bikers list is actually the cheapest car each manufacture makes. So they are grouped by price not by size. I think its a valid comparison. When people go to buy a car they don't say I'm going to look at B-cars. They shop on on lots of criteria but price is one of the biggest.

 

Then he missed some from Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes...

[RichardJensen]

Bikers list is actually the cheapest car each manufacture makes.

Not really, some manufacturers have multiple entries.

 

And if the criteria is price, then it should be defined by price and restricted by price, as in "Vehicles under $20,000", and only vehicles sold for less than $20k should be included on the list, not vehicles that sold for over $20k, even if the base price for the base model is under $20k.

[RichardJensen]

Again, you have two choices when it comes to classifying things:

 

You can define your classifications reflexively: "This list is my list, it consists of the things on the list" or "This is a list of stuff that I like"

 

Or you can write a rule and apply it: "This is a list of vehicles with over 85 and under 100 cubic feet of combined passenger and cargo volume" or "This is a list of new vehicles that sold for less than $20,000 in March 2012"

Edited April 5, 2012 by RichardJensen

[atomcat68]

This is the EPA's list of the Subcompact cars. To my surprise...I own one!

 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Subcompact_Cars2012.shtml

Edited April 5, 2012 by atomcat68

[RichardJensen]

Hmm. I had no idea that the Bimmer and Lexus were that small on the inside. Both are right on the border between compact & subcompact with 99cu ft. combined.

 

Also, there are a few vehicles that would be included if they weren't classed as "Small Wagons" by the EPA (e.g. Nissan Juke)

Edited April 5, 2012 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

I wouldn't complain if Ford introduces B-Max and its included in with Fiesta's contribution to B Cars..

[MKII]

EPA rule of thumb does not seem to be adhered to by the multitudes whom report USA vehicle sales.

I have noticed many who report USA vehicle sales will include the Versa in both the B segment & C segment with a note explaining why.

But have not seen a USA sales report mention this groups Fit, Soul, 500, Mini, Accent, Rio and Sonic sales numbers in both segments.

 

The Nissan Versa called the Tiida in Europe is considered a C segment vehicle.

 

I bit from Wiki........The US-spec model unveiled at the motorshow was the sedan previously shown in December 2010 in China under the Sunny nameplate. It continues to compete with the likes of other entry-level sedans such as the Ford Fiesta, Chevrolet Sonic, Kia Rio, and Hyundai Accent; as well as the larger Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. However, the hatchback will continue to compete primarily with the hatchback-only Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, but will also be positioned against the larger Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Kia Forte hatchbacks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Tiida

Edited April 6, 2012 by MKII

[jpd80]

EPA rule of thumb does not seem to be adhered to by the multitudes whom report USA vehicle sales.

I have noticed many who report USA vehicle sales will include the Versa in both the B segment & C segment with a note explaining why.

But have not seen a USA sales report mention this groups Fit, Soul, 500, Mini, Accent, Rio and Sonic sales numbers in both segments.

 

The Nissan Versa called the Tiida in Europe is considered a C segment vehicle.

 

I bit from Wiki........The US-spec model unveiled at the motorshow was the sedan previously shown in December 2010 in China under the Sunny nameplate. It continues to compete with the likes of other entry-level sedans such as the Ford Fiesta, Chevrolet Sonic, Kia Rio, and Hyundai Accent; as well as the larger Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. However, the hatchback will continue to compete primarily with the hatchback-only Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, but will also be positioned against the larger Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Kia Forte hatchbacks. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Nissan_Tiida

From your wikipedia link, you'll see that the latest version of Versa is now based on Nissan Micra:

The second generation Versa was unveiled at the 2011 New York Auto Show. The sedan version is no longer based on the Tiida, but instead it will be based on the Micra.

[Biker16]

'How a lot of people view the market'.

 

"actual marketplace perception"

 

CITATION NEEDED.

 

Also, the Versa and Sonic are COMPACT cars per the EPA's size classifications.

 

Finally, I'm chuckling inwardly at your predictable dismissal of 'outdated' EPA classifications; especially when their logical designations are contrasted with your utterly arbitrary and reflexively defined list of 'B-cars'.

 

ok

 

Car and Driver:2012 Chevrolet Sonic

 

 

Top Competitors>

• Ford Fiesta hatchback
• Mazda 2
• Nissan Versa 5-door hatchback
• Toyota Yaris 5-door Liftback
• Honda Fit

 

Just The Facts: February 2012 Car Sales

 

B Segment

Kia Soul: 10,876

Nissa Versa: 10,190

Chevrolet Sonic: 7,900

Hyundai Accent: 5,806

Ford Fiesta: 5,518

Honda Fit: 4,227

Toyota Yaris: 3,611

Kia Rio: 3,598

Fiat 500: 3,227

Scion xB: 1,606

Scion iQ: 864

Scion xD: 818

Chevrolet Aveo: 17

 

Chevy got the Sonic right

 

It's called the Sonic, and Chevy is aiming the car at 20-somethings who are eyeing the Ford Fiesta, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa and a few other budget-priced models.

 

 

 

 

 

CNET: 2012 Nissan Versa

 

2012 Nissan Versa SV. Navigation is only available at a higher trim level, and the stereo and Bluetooth phone systems are not quite as good as those found in competitive vehicles, such as the Ford Fiesta or Hyundai Accent.

 

 

 

 

2012 Hyundai Accent Is the Fiesta's Party Over?

 

 

 

 

First came Honda's second-generation Fit, which set the bar for the other contenders. Then, Ford's Euro-cutie 2011 Fiesta made its stateside debut, followed shortly thereafter by its distant cousin, the Mazda2. All along, Hyundai's Accent soldiered on as

 

I can do this all day.

 

competition is not determined by the EPA it is determined by price, capabilities, target demographic, and numerous other tangibles. B-car in general are targeted towards the young and cost conscious buyer.

 

why are you wasting your time on this? Class has always been subjective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NickF1011]

B-car in general are targeted towards the young and cost conscious buyer.

 

And C-cars are not?

[Biker16]

EPA rule of thumb does not seem to be adhered to by the multitudes whom report USA vehicle sales.

I have noticed many who report USA vehicle sales will include the Versa in both the B segment & C segment with a note explaining why.

But have not seen a USA sales report mention this groups Fit, Soul, 500, Mini, Accent, Rio and Sonic sales numbers in both segments.

 

The Nissan Versa called the Tiida in Europe is considered a C segment vehicle.

 

I bit from Wiki........The US-spec model unveiled at the motorshow was the sedan previously shown in December 2010 in China under the Sunny nameplate. It continues to compete with the likes of other entry-level sedans such as the Ford Fiesta, Chevrolet Sonic, Kia Rio, and Hyundai Accent; as well as the larger Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. However, the hatchback will continue to compete primarily with the hatchback-only Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, but will also be positioned against the larger Ford Focus, Mazda 3, and Kia Forte hatchbacks. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Nissan_Tiida

 

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/nissan-tiida-review.htm

 

Anyway, the Tiida is not based on the same Nissan C platform as the Renault Mégane, but the Nissan B platform, and the reason they look fairly similar in size is because the Tiida's B platform has had the wheelbase stretched, and this accounts for the interior's roomy interior.

 

the Versa's roots are B car all the way. that waht allows it to be sold for so little.

[Biker16]

This is the EPA's list of the Subcompact cars. To my surprise...I own one!

 

http://www.fuelecono..._Cars2012.shtml

 

AND by defult according to Richard's logic it competes with the fiesta, right?

 

surely there is more to classification than interior volume, right?

[RichardJensen]

numerous other tangibles.

DEFINE THEM.

[RichardJensen]

there is more to classification than interior volume,

LIKE WHAT, BIKER?