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Ford March 2012 Sales

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Couldn't Ford add some extra Focus ( and possibly C-Max and a future Lincoln small car ) at the old Wayne Assembly Plant?

 

I believe much of Wayne is used for stamping. Don't forget, MAP is starting third shift which should add another 2,000 vehicles/week if needed. Hard to say if gas prices have topped out or not. Probably depends upon what Israel does with Iran nuclear facilities. I tend to believe that Israel will strike before year is out and all hell is going to break loose.

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You also have to remember that the Focus surge happened within the last two months for not inexplicable reasons (incentives, fleeting).

Prove the fleet volume.

 

The ONLY source you have for excessive fleet volume on the Focus was a poorly researched article that referred to THIRD QUARTER 2011 fleet volume.

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And, quite obviously, 28k Focus sales per month is unsustainable, and talking about adding a second plant for the Focus at this point is as premature as talking about adding a second plant for the Mustang in 2005.

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I fixed it for you.

 

Just because the B-segment is growing doesn't mean it's still not pretty tiny. Compared to just about every other segment, it's still very small.

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Looking at the business news all around the web, I don't know if this is all that great. Apparently, of all the new car buyers in March, Ford and GM got the least % of them. Seems like Toyota is back, and could easily overtake Ford soon. Assuming that the new Fusion and Escape will take some time to catch on, and Ford will lose the current versions that are big sellers.

Edited by Kev-Mo

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Looking at the business news all around the web, I don't know if this is all that great. Apparently, of all the new car buyers in March, Ford and GM got the least % of them. Seems like Toyota is back, and could easily overtake Ford soon. Assuming that the new Fusion and Escape will take some time to catch on, and Ford will lose the current versions that are big sellers.

 

Oh no! Doom and gloom!

 

:runaway: :runaway:

 

:sos::sos:

 

:drop::drop:

 

Yes, the current Fusion and Escape are big sellers....with relatively big discounts. The new versions will almost undoubtedly be more profitable, even if they don't sell in quite as high bargain-level volumes. Sales crowns don't mean squat if you aren't making money getting there.

Edited by NickF1011

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Just because the B-segment is growing doesn't mean it's still not pretty tiny. Compared to just about every other segment, it's still very small.

 

it is larger than the D segment right now.

 

in order of volume rough guess of volume.

C/D ~3 million

C ~ 2.3 million

B .6 millon

D .5 million

E < .2 million

 

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

 

some B-car numbers form last month

nissan

juke 4165

versa 15,587

 

GM

Sonic 8251

 

hyndai

N/A

 

toyota

yaris 3547

IQ 1285

XD 1080

XB 2054

 

honda

N/A

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it is larger than the D segment right now.

 

in order of volume rough guess of volume.

C/D ~3 million

C ~ 2.3 million

B .6 millon

D .5 million

E < .2 million

 

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

 

some B-car numbers form last month

nissan

juke 4165

versa 15,587

 

GM

Sonic 8251

 

hyndai

N/A

 

toyota

yaris 3547

IQ 1285

XD 1080

XB 2054

 

honda

N/A

 

And looking at those numbers, is 6500 units for the Fiesta something to sneeze at? Not at all. It could be a Scion. :hysterical:

 

And being the third of five CAR segments is one thing. Factor in trucks and its importance drops quite a bit. Remember that trucks have been more than half the market for new vehicles for some time now.

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And looking at those numbers, is 6500 units for the Fiesta something to sneeze at? Not at all. It could be a Scion. :hysterical:

 

understand that the Scion XD, XB and Yaris, are platform mates. and posibly built in the same factory on the same line as each other. also with the Scion and yaris they play an hi low game, where the Scion sell for much more than the Yaris does but in essence they are the same basic car under the skin. the global volume of the Yaris is quite large, BTW.

 

If the fiesta sold 6500 per month for the rest of the year it would easily break it own sales record.

 

the B=car market is very fragmented, with the Kia, soul, and Nissan juke to the blue light special Versa. the fiesta and fit are considered the higher tier of the segment, and the both are in need of upgrades to counter the increase in competition.

 

And being the third of five CAR segments is one thing. Factor in trucks and its importance drops quite a bit. Remember that trucks have been more than half the market for new vehicles for some time now.

 

Trucks have not been over 50% of the market for some time. today cars are the majority of vehicles sold.

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You also have to remember that the Focus surge happened within the last two months for not inexplicable reasons (incentives, fleeting).

Focus fleet sales are trivial, Fusion is the leader there...I called it, ford finally took notice of fledging focii sales and came out with competitive leases and incentives....

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Looking at the business news all around the web, I don't know if this is all that great. Apparently, of all the new car buyers in March, Ford and GM got the least % of them. Seems like Toyota is back, and could easily overtake Ford soon. Assuming that the new Fusion and Escape will take some time to catch on, and Ford will lose the current versions that are big sellers.

 

GM sales are rather disappointing because many sales analyts had GM much higher, but Chrysler beat estimates, and Ford cut back on fleet sales in March, and retail sales were up double digit. So there is always a story behind sales numbers. But I would agree the big story is Toyota back over 200,000 sales for month. First time since 2008. And to do that with that shitbox Corolla and super bland Camry plus poor seller Tundra. Don't forget Ford is a much smaller company and probably doesn't have the capacity to go much beyond 250,000 sales/month tops even if there were the customers. And Ford isn't building any new plant, but is spending a lot on Hermosillo, so maybe it can produce a few more vehicle plus get some extra capacity when Mazda leaves AAI.

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it is larger than the D segment right now.

 

in order of volume rough guess of volume.

C/D ~3 million

C ~ 2.3 million

B .6 millon

D .5 million

E < .2 million

 

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

 

some B-car numbers form last month

nissan

juke 4165

versa 15,587

 

GM

Sonic 8251

 

hyndai

N/A

 

toyota

yaris 3547

IQ 1285

XD 1080

XB 2054

 

honda

N/A

Your numbers are incorrect. Juke is a crossover, not a car. Versa should be grouped with comparably sized cars as it is larger than a focus based on passenger and cargo space...you know using industry standards. There maybe other issues but I think this sufficiently illustrates my point.

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Focus fleet sales are trivial, Fusion is the leader there...I called it, ford finally took notice of fledging focii sales and came out with competitive leases and incentives....

 

for good lease rates, you need to have good residuals, the Focus was too new to calculate residuals until recently.

 

Your numbers are incorrect. Juke is a crossover, not a car. Versa should be grouped with comparably sized cars as it is larger than a focus based on passenger and cargo space...you know using industry standards. There maybe other issues but I think this sufficiently illustrates my point.

 

this is murky area, you could also consider the XD and XB crossover too, this illustrates the segmentation of the that segment. people do cross shop the versa and fiesta more than the Versa and focus, despite it's size, people consider it to be a B -car, the new fusion, Accord, and Sonata are considered to be large cars by EPA standards, the 2000 focus hatch would also be considered a midsized car by EPA specs, but in all cases they were grouped with other cars in their class.

 

the fiesta hatch back with 85/15 or 100 Cu/Ft should be a Compact car but its not.

 

In closing, with the CUVs. MPVs, SUVs, XUVs and other TLAs it is mighty hard to categorize cars these days, please forgive me if my categories offended you.

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understand that the Scion XD, XB and Yaris, are platform mates. and posibly built in the same factory on the same line as each other. also with the Scion and yaris they play an hi low game, where the Scion sell for much more than the Yaris does but in essence they are the same basic car under the skin. the global volume of the Yaris is quite large, BTW.

 

If the fiesta sold 6500 per month for the rest of the year it would easily break it own sales record.

 

the B=car market is very fragmented, with the Kia, soul, and Nissan juke to the blue light special Versa. the fiesta and fit are considered the higher tier of the segment, and the both are in need of upgrades to counter the increase in competition.

 

 

 

Trucks have not been over 50% of the market for some time. today cars are the majority of vehicles sold.

 

xD, xB, and Yaris combined still sell on about the same level as Fiesta by itself. :shrug:

 

And I'm pretty certain that trucks still account for over half the market. Remember -- that includes CUV's.

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xD, xB, and Yaris combined still sell on about the same level as Fiesta by itself. :shrug:

 

And I'm pretty certain that trucks still account for over half the market. Remember -- that includes CUV's.

 

no

 

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

 

48KIKPMP.gif

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Okay. So cars have the lead for the past two months. Still doesn't change the market posotion of B-cars. They still sell less than C/D and C cars, as well as small, midsize, and large SUV's, and fullsize pickups. Probably minivans too.

Edited by NickF1011

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And I'm sure we all know this, B-segment cars are light on profit which means Ford's overall volume is more profitable because they are selling C+ segment cars and utilities.

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Oh no! Doom and gloom!

 

:runaway: :runaway:

 

:sos::sos:

 

:drop::drop:

 

Yes, the current Fusion and Escape are big sellers....with relatively big discounts. The new versions will almost undoubtedly be more profitable, even if they don't sell in quite as high bargain-level volumes. Sales crowns don't mean squat if you aren't making money getting there.

 

Ok Nick, be sarcastic all you want - I did not predict doom and gloom. Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it. And don't say Toyota coming back is not a matter of concern. For every one of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold.

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Ok Nick, be sarcastic all you want - I did not predict doom and gloom. Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it. And don't say Toyota coming back is not a matter of concern. For every one of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold.

 

There's plenty of completely VALID spin to be put on it though. What did ATP's look like? What was incentive spending like? What were the fleet/retail mixes of competitors? All of those are very real and very valid factors to be considered when analyzing sales. To simply look at sales columns does not paint a complete picture.

 

Besides, did anyone think for a moment that Toyota wasn't going to come back? That would be rather naive.

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Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it.

 

Actually that's patently false, no spin required. It depends entirely on the actual numbers, not percentages. If I sold 5 vehicles last year and 10 this year I've increased 100%. If you sold 100K last year and 101K this year you only increased 1%. But your 1% is 1,000 vehicles compared to 5 at 100%.

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Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

Not when that segment is like a quarter of the size of the 2nd highest car segment.

 

And not when the vehicles that are included in that segment are based on the Biker16 standard of cherry-picked entries.

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it is larger than the D segment right now.

 

in order of volume rough guess of volume.

C/D ~3 million

C ~ 2.3 million

B .6 millon

D .5 million

E < .2 million

 

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

 

some B-car numbers form last month

nissan

juke 4165

versa 15,587

 

GM

Sonic 8251

 

hyndai

N/A

 

toyota

yaris 3547

IQ 1285

XD 1080

XB 2054

 

honda

N/A

 

xB is not a B-segment car anymore than Corolla is one.

 

The new flavor of the moment in the B-segment is actually Prius C.

 

xD/Yaris/Prius C combined (they are the same car just different body/engine) outsold everyone in the B-segment.

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But lets look at the numbers, and percentages a bit........................ shall we??

 

Look at CV sales. Look at Ranger sales. What volume is lost there?? Add that back in, and Fords percentages would look much better. What Ford had on the lots, sold great.

 

However, I guess we have to find the "doom and gloom" in what is a damn good month. Do not expect Ford sales to be up large percentages this year, because of the vehicles going away.

 

GM, on the other hand, should be worried. Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole. F-series really pulled away from the GM twins in March. If anyone needs to be worried, it is GM.

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Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole.

 

And I'll point out again that Ford has half the employees that GM has. You guys do the math......

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GM, on the other hand, should be worried. Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole. F-series really pulled away from the GM twins in March. If anyone needs to be worried, it is GM.

 

That's a pretty good point. Ford is still increasing its sales with a much leaner organization than GM's.

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