$400-$600 for a 5.4 V-8 Tune-up

[bobbyd]

I just priced a standard spark plug tune up at two local Ford Dealers. Wow...all 5.4 V-8 engines are almost impossible to get at the plugs. $400 for the tune up plus up to an additional $90 each if they break...and that is common on original installed factory plugs.

So, we are talking possibly over $500 or more to change the plugs. What were those engineers thinking when they designed the 5.4 V-8?

Or maybe they weren't!

[mettech]

About the same price for the 3.0L '03 Sable

[V8-X]

The main issue is the 2-piece design Ford has for their plugs (3V 5.4L models). That's where the engineers failed. If I remember correctly, it's a Champion plug design. This is a case of bean counters and the lowest bidder not always being the best option. Then again, the prior 5.4L (2V), had issues with spitting plugs. So either they get stuck in the head or blown out the head.

 

Dealers typically charge around $300-$400 for plug changes on V8's anyways, so that's not the shocker. It's the "$90 per hole for each plug that snaps in two" that is outrageous. I'm looking at taking on this task here in the near future, as my 2006 5.4L F150 has almost 43K on the clock now and I want to get those plugs of there before they seize up to much. My local mechanic is willing to charge me $90 for the plug change, $50 per hole (for those that break), and I get to pick the plugs they put back in. This is still quite expensive, but much better cost than the dealer and their high overhead mark up. I've seen many people do the change, many with luck and none breaking, while others have had their truck down for days while they try to extract the plugs.

Edited February 20, 2012 by V8-X

[blksn8k2]

The main issue is the 2-piece design Ford has for their plugs (3V 5.4L models). That's where the engineers failed. If I remember correctly, it's a Champion plug design. This is a case of bean counters and the lowest bidder not always being the best option. Then again, the prior 5.4L (2V), had issues with spitting plugs. So either they get stuck in the head or blown out the head.

 

Dealers typically charge around $300-$400 for plug changes on V8's anyways, so that's not the shocker. It's the "$90 per hole for each plug that snaps in two" that is outrageous. I'm looking at taking on this task here in the near future, as my 2006 5.4L F150 has almost 43K on the clock now and I want to get those plugs of there before they seize up to much. My local mechanic is willing to charge me $90 for the plug change, $50 per hole (for those that break), and I get to pick the plugs they put back in. This is still quite expensive, but much better cost than the dealer and their high overhead mark up. I've seen many people do the change, many with luck and none breaking, while others have had their truck down for days while they try to extract the plugs.

 

The original design is not by Champion. As a matter of fact, Champion actually makes a one piece plug that replaces the Motorcraft two-piece plugs. The issue with the Motorcraft design is that if the plug builds up too much carbon on the portion extending into the combustion chamber it will seize in the threads when you try to remove the plug. That can result in the plug separating where the two halves are crimped together leaving the lower portion in the combustion chamber. There are special tools designed to remove the broken off piece. All 3V modular V-8s including the 4.6L in the Mustang and Explorer have the same issue. I have a set of Champions and the tools, chemicals and TSB that describes the proper removal procedure to do a plug change on my 4.6L Sport Trac. Just waiting for the weather to warm up so I can drive something else if things don't go well. Not one of Ford's better ideas.

[RichardJensen]

I'm not surprised. It ain't fun to change spark plugs on any vehicle these days, and I wouldn't consider changing plugs a 'tuneup' anymore either.

 

Calling a plug change a tuneup hearkens back to the good old days when gas stations sold fan belts, tires and batteries because none of those things lasted longer than a year.

[Kev-Mo]

I just priced a standard spark plug tune up at two local Ford Dealers. Wow...all 5.4 V-8 engines are almost impossible to get at the plugs. $400 for the tune up plus up to an additional $90 each if they break...and that is common on original installed factory plugs.

So, we are talking possibly over $500 or more to change the plugs. What were those engineers thinking when they designed the 5.4 V-8?

Or maybe they weren't!

 

It’s a free market - go find someone else! Why the dealer? Not that they don’t have good mechanics, but the overhead is way too high! With all the F-150's, Explorer V8's and Crown Vic police cars out there, good independent Ford mechanics are easy to find. My local guy with a small, but state of the art shop charged about $260 for a 4.6 V8 F150 spark plug change. He services many local fleet trucks and police cars so he knows exactly how to handle the occasional breaking plug. And, I watched him change plugs by putting the vehicle on a lift, then removing the front wheel and inner fender lining, not by reaching down from under the hood as the do-it -yourselfer might be inclined.

[Edstock]

I'm not surprised. It ain't fun to change spark plugs on any vehicle these days, and I wouldn't consider changing plugs a 'tuneup' anymore either.

 

Calling a plug change a tuneup hearkens back to the good old days when gas stations sold fan belts, tires and batteries because none of those things lasted longer than a year.

 

Changing the plugs on 4-cylinder FWD sleds is alright for the most part, in my experience. It's trying to do the back bank of a sideways V-6 that's so entertaining. As far as I am concerned, ease-of-service is an important engineering consideration, and from that perspective, there's a lot of crappy design out there.

[rscalzo]

[

It ain't fun to change spark plugs on any vehicle these days,

 

It's a snap on my Harley.

 

 

The cost for eight of those plugs is over a hundred. As they are tough to get to and have a habit of breaking, three hours is probably about right for the labor. so even a indy isn't going to be cheap. Crown Vic PI didn't use those plugs. I don't think the Ex did as ours never had the plug issue. Only the F-150 and maybe one or two others.

 

Half the problem was the failure to use anti-seize when they were installed.

Edited February 20, 2012 by rscalzo

[jpd80]

Not an issue with our DOHC 5.4 Boss Falcons...

Only a few 5.4 3V Falcons were sold between 2002 and 2006 because the performance

difference between it and the 4.0 I-6 wasn't enough to justify the near $8,000 option cost....

[FordBuyer]

So how often does one change plugs on modern vehicle? I've never had plugs changed on my 3.0 L DOHC 24 valver V6 and it's a 10 year old Taurus and still runs perfectly. Other than two coolant flushes and one trans flush, one new battery, one new fuel filter, change out air filter every year, and two oil changes/year, haven't done much of anything else. Don't see need to change plugs unless fuel mileage slipped or ran rough. Now on my Boxster, Porsche advises new plugs at 60,000 mile maintenance interval along with new serpentine belt and new fuel filter. This year Taurus will get another new fuel filter and another new battery this fall. I may do new plugs and wires in another year or two along with new serpentine belt. But my Ford dealer hasn't advised new belt or plugs yet. I would probably have indie shop do it if Ford dealer wants over $200 to replace 6 plugs and wires.

[Pioneer]

So how often does one change plugs on modern vehicle?

 

 

100k miles if it uses platinum tipped plugs.

[V8-X]

The original design is not by Champion. As a matter of fact, Champion actually makes a one piece plug that replaces the Motorcraft two-piece plugs. The issue with the Motorcraft design is that if the plug builds up too much carbon on the portion extending into the combustion chamber it will seize in the threads when you try to remove the plug. That can result in the plug separating where the two halves are crimped together leaving the lower portion in the combustion chamber. There are special tools designed to remove the broken off piece. All 3V modular V-8s including the 4.6L in the Mustang and Explorer have the same issue. I have a set of Champions and the tools, chemicals and TSB that describes the proper removal procedure to do a plug change on my 4.6L Sport Trac. Just waiting for the weather to warm up so I can drive something else if things don't go well. Not one of Ford's better ideas.

Like I stated "I think Champion makes them". Sorry, it wasn't Champion, it's Autolite who makes the plugs for Motorcraft. I've heard horror stories from fellow 3V 5.4L owners who have installed Champion plugs though. It is a one piece design, but that is the only benefit they have. Otherwise they've complained of poor spark and fouling up easy.

 

And um yeah, I know of the issue, I know of the tools (they've had a few different tools over the past few years released) and TSB and so forth. Have followed this issue for a few years. Supposedly this only impacts 3V 5.4L F150's made prior to November 2007.

Edited February 20, 2012 by V8-X

[twintornados]

100k miles if it uses platinum tipped plugs.

:yup:

 

Did a spark plug change on my '06 Fusion V6 at 100K....had to take the top half of the intake plenum off to get to the back three plugs but it was pretty much a snap (no pun intended) to replace 'em. Done in 2 hours and that was just at a "taking-my-time-shade-tree-mechanic" pace. Put in replacement Motorcraft plugs since, hey, they went 100K without issue.

Edited February 20, 2012 by twintornados

[7Mary3]

The '2-piece' spark plugs were used on the 3v V-8 and V-10 for only the first year or so, then they were replaced with the stronger design. The previous poster has it right, the plug shell was weak and the end of the plug tended to carbon up, and the plug would break or tear the threads on the heads out. Other than that, changing plugs on a 3 valve is pretty easy compared to the 2 valve. On most 2 valve Mod/Triton engines, the fuel rail needs to be moved out of the way. Any time the fuel rail is disturbed, it is a good idea the replace the injector O-rings. It is not a fun job, particularly on the V-10's.

[cheri/ck]

I just priced a standard spark plug tune up at two local Ford Dealers. Wow...all 5.4 V-8 engines are almost impossible to get at the plugs. $400 for the tune up plus up to an additional $90 each if they break...and that is common on original installed factory plugs.

So, we are talking possibly over $500 or more to change the plugs. What were those engineers thinking when they designed the 5.4 V-8?

Or maybe they weren't!

 

 

I just addressed this issue with my Ford dealer recently regarding our 2007 F-150 4X4. The quote was minimum $500 and probably $1,000 considering the back plugs will likely break. This is a good high volume truck dealer and I would not question them concerning their abilities or honest pricing either. Have been there buying trucks and servicing them for 13 years.

 

Makes me just a little more angry with Ford. The truck has 75,000 miles on it - they don't recommend early plug changes. Although they recommend all sorts of early other things?

 

Will continue shopping outside of the Ford store for our next replacement. Getting tired of the latest, greatest technology on these engines and don't think the newest ones are a bit better.

 

These trucks are too big anyway and there are options.

[Edstock]

These trucks are too big anyway and there are options.

The Dodge or whatever they call it has that clever rear coil suspension, and with the new V-6 and a 6-speed, would be a nice alternative, if it's not too big. IIRC, it's supposed to get an 8-speed transmission in a year or two.

[blksn8k2]

Like I stated "I think Champion makes them". Sorry, it wasn't Champion, it's Autolite who makes the plugs for Motorcraft. I've heard horror stories from fellow 3V 5.4L owners who have installed Champion plugs though. It is a one piece design, but that is the only benefit they have. Otherwise they've complained of poor spark and fouling up easy.

 

And um yeah, I know of the issue, I know of the tools (they've had a few different tools over the past few years released) and TSB and so forth. Have followed this issue for a few years. Supposedly this only impacts 3V 5.4L F150's made prior to November 2007.

 

Not all of what I posted was directed at you (sorry if it came across that way) but more to educate others who might not be fully aware of the unique situation with early modular 3V spark plugs.

 

I think a lot of people have too long a memory when it comes to Champion plugs. Times change. Since Ford doesn't seem willing to sell anything similar to the Sport Trac anytime soon I will probably be keeping mine for at least another plug change and even if the Champions do not last as long as the OEMs at least I know I can get them out without facing the worst case scenario of possibly having to pull a cylinder head. It has happened to others.

 

As you said, Ford did redesign the 3V heads but I have read different dates for different engines. For example, the 4.6L supposedly didn't get the new design until mid 2008. All I can say for certain is that none of that helps me since my 2007 Sport Trac has the old design 3V heads with the crappy two piece plugs.

 

BTW, when I asked a local dealer service dept about doing a plug change they also recommended changing the plug boots at the same time. Not sure if they were just trying to sell more parts but I have read that the boots can also be an issue. The internal spring/electrode can stretch or even break when removing them.

[cheri/ck]

The Dodge or whatever they call it has that clever rear coil suspension, and with the new V-6 and a 6-speed, would be a nice alternative, if it's not too big. IIRC, it's supposed to get an 8-speed transmission in a year or two.

 

 

I know and keep up. The clever rear suspension came out a few years ago on the Dodge (Ram) 1500 and might add with a pretty efficient, high HP V-8 engine for a half ton truck. Been test driving a good deal of current offerings. The Dodge is big, the Titan is a nicer size. Waiting on a redesign there, but the Frontier will probably already replace our (not available any more) Rangers. We have a good Nissan dealer close by that we have dealt with in years past.

 

Hate to leave Ford after truly 40 years of pretty good experience with a few other brands blended in. But imagine we will at some point here. Just not impressed with much of anything in the truck line including the engines and the latest 6-speed auto tranny. Forget the many options of Ford CUVS's - we don't need to carry people very far.

[theDuff]

We charge $200 for labor. The plugs are $20 a piece I believe. $80 for each broken one. I normally give you one freebie, unless its cylinder 4 or 8 (but it always is for some reason). Trust me, the mechanic doesn't want them to break. Probably more than you do.

 

Ive spent hundreds on tools for these plugs. Its a sore subject. At first, I was miffed that I needed a new socket (they're 9/16ths instead of the standard 3/8ths) $. Then came the 3/8ths chordless impact $$$$. It seems to be the only tool that removes them in one piece, and it only works about 90% of the time. It is a handy tool to have around regardless though, but not handy enough to justify it's cost. Then the lisle porcelain pusher/ extractor $$. Then I needed a new socket for the one piece design $.

 

All these tools look so nice in my toolbox. They're next to my helicoil installer for the 2v spark plugs $$$.

[cheri/ck]

We charge $200 for labor. The plugs are $20 a piece I believe. $80 for each broken one. I normally give you one freebie, unless its cylinder 4 or 8 (but it always is for some reason). Trust me, the mechanic doesn't want them to break. Probably more than you do.

 

Ive spent hundreds on tools for these plugs. Its a sore subject. At first, I was miffed that I needed a new socket (they're 9/16ths instead of the standard 3/8ths) $. Then came the 3/8ths chordless impact $$$$. It seems to be the only tool that removes them in one piece, and it only works about 90% of the time. It is a handy tool to have around regardless though, but not handy enough to justify it's cost. Then the lisle porcelain pusher/ extractor $$. Then I needed a new socket for the one piece design $.

 

All these tools look so nice in my toolbox. They're next to my helicoil installer for the 2v spark plugs $$$.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expect I could get better pricing if I shopped around. Have trusted this dealer for so long and they have really been very good, although on the pricy side. They don't want to lose a good customer over this little awful job so are giving me what I believe is a proper, likely range for the repair. (OK, routine maintenance, but guess Ford Motor doesn't see it that way and/or help their customers.)

 

Just hope we don't end up with worse than a $1,000 job - it could be with a head removal. And then it's beginning to look like the cam phaser thing that was supposed to be fixed by 2006 probably really wasn't. Just bumped the miles out to the expected 150,000 range. Guess the fuel injectors were fixed by then.

 

Hard to know any more with the F-150's. They do deserve credit for trying so hard to make an efficient design on a too big, too heavy platform.

 

And, yes - still driving the previous generation and sure hoping for no plug blow-out. Understand the need for the helicoil installer. Also hoping that hard shifting - from day one - 4R70 tranny doesn't blow up too. Still best truck we have ever had at 140,000 miles.

 

Getting hard to have confidence here though in much of anything newer.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2012 by cheri/ck

[cheri/ck]

Not all of what I posted was directed at you (sorry if it came across that way) but more to educate others who might not be fully aware of the unique situation with early modular 3V spark plugs.

 

I think a lot of people have too long a memory when it comes to Champion plugs. Times change. Since Ford doesn't seem willing to sell anything similar to the Sport Trac anytime soon I will probably be keeping mine for at least another plug change and even if the Champions do not last as long as the OEMs at least I know I can get them out without facing the worst case scenario of possibly having to pull a cylinder head. It has happened to others.

 

As you said, Ford did redesign the 3V heads but I have read different dates for different engines. For example, the 4.6L supposedly didn't get the new design until mid 2008. All I can say for certain is that none of that helps me since my 2007 Sport Trac has the old design 3V heads with the crappy two piece plugs.

 

BTW, when I asked a local dealer service dept about doing a plug change they also recommended changing the plug boots at the same time. Not sure if they were just trying to sell more parts but I have read that the boots can also be an issue. The internal spring/electrode can stretch or even break when removing them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, changing the coil boots is a good idea. They are like the plug wires from years past. And, once they get old or well used and get removed, they should be replaced. Might as well add another $150 to the job for a V-8. (Not sure on that price, probably be another surprise.)

 

Money well spent though if you are keeping the vehicle.

[cheri/ck]

The '2-piece' spark plugs were used on the 3v V-8 and V-10 for only the first year or so, then they were replaced with the stronger design. The previous poster has it right, the plug shell was weak and the end of the plug tended to carbon up, and the plug would break or tear the threads on the heads out. Other than that, changing plugs on a 3 valve is pretty easy compared to the 2 valve. On most 2 valve Mod/Triton engines, the fuel rail needs to be moved out of the way. Any time the fuel rail is disturbed, it is a good idea the replace the injector O-rings. It is not a fun job, particularly on the V-10's.

 

 

 

 

Know you are knowledgeable about the trucks and Ford vehicles in general. But, it is my understanding that the problematic spark plug was not redesigned until later on in the 2008 model vehicles. Have to be pretty careful on engine build date there too. (November seems to be safe).

 

Is it possible that a stronger design was really used sometime sooner than this? I really kind of doubt it. Think the faulty spark plug was used from 2004 through the 2007 model year and into early 2008's.

[7Mary3]

Know you are knowledgeable about the trucks and Ford vehicles in general. But, it is my understanding that the problematic spark plug was not redesigned until later on in the 2008 model vehicles. Have to be pretty careful on engine build date there too. (November seems to be safe).

 

Is it possible that a stronger design was really used sometime sooner than this? I really kind of doubt it. Think the faulty spark plug was used from 2004 through the 2007 model year and into early 2008's.

 

Not sure of the exact date that the spark plug design was changed, but I recently replaced the plugs in a 2008 F-250 5.4L, and they were the improved design. The truck is a late 2008, so I wouldn't despute what you say!

[RangerM]

Did a spark plug change on my '06 Fusion V6 at 100K....had to take the top half of the intake plenum off to get to the back three plugs but it was pretty much a snap (no pun intended) to replace 'em. Done in 2 hours and that was just at a "taking-my-time-shade-tree-mechanic" pace. Put in replacement Motorcraft plugs since, hey, they went 100K without issue.

I changed the plugs in my '93 Ranger a few months ago at ~180K, because it started misfiring. Turns out it wasn't the plugs, but a bad air flow sensor.

 

Don't regret changing them, but I could probably have not and the engine would still run fine.

 

The back two (on either side) were a little tough to get to, but nothing like a transverse V6 would have been.

[silvrsvt]

I spent something like $900 to get my Mustang GT "tuned up" at 100K....

 

I would have done it myself, but at the time I was in one state during the week and at home during the weekend...didn't want to waste my entire weekend working on my car since I wanted to spend time relaxing and with family.