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CAVUTO: Volt sales inflated with taxpayer fleet buys...


Bryan1

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All you really need to see in that video is the Volt vs. F150 sales statistic.

 

That's a real good comparison.

 

When contracts are up at Fox News, they should contrast their viewership, with hot dog sales in the US. Surely a few billion wieners more are sold every year than their total viewership. Therefore, everyone should get fired/severe pay cut.

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I just read yesterday that we the taxpayers pay way over the $7500.00 rebate. My problem is that I should not have to subsidize either the company or the well-off customer that wants to buy a Volt. I have no problem with them buying it........emphasis on THEM...not with my help.

 

GM and the government bailout of them has sickened me and a lot of people I talk to on a regular basis. I know the bailout is old news, but a lot of us still remember it. I can truthfully say that I will never buy GM, or Chrysler. We have three vehicles in our home. One is a Ford, two others are import/transplants. I have had GM in my driveway a couple times in the past.........but never again.

 

Merry Christmas to all you Blue Oval fans. Hope Ford has a great new year along with you.

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I just read yesterday that we the taxpayers pay way over the $7500.00 rebate. My problem is that I should not have to subsidize either the company or the well-off customer that wants to buy a Volt. I have no problem with them buying it........emphasis on THEM...not with my help.

 

GM and the government bailout of them has sickened me and a lot of people I talk to on a regular basis. I know the bailout is old news, but a lot of us still remember it. I can truthfully say that I will never buy GM, or Chrysler. We have three vehicles in our home. One is a Ford, two others are import/transplants. I have had GM in my driveway a couple times in the past.........but never again.

 

Merry Christmas to all you Blue Oval fans. Hope Ford has a great new year along with you.

Well said Eel. Merry Christmas to you as well!

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I just read yesterday that we the taxpayers pay way over the $7500.00 rebate. My problem is that I should not have to subsidize either the company or the well-off customer that wants to buy a Volt. I have no problem with them buying it........emphasis on THEM...not with my help.

 

GM and the government bailout of them has sickened me and a lot of people I talk to on a regular basis. I know the bailout is old news, but a lot of us still remember it. I can truthfully say that I will never buy GM, or Chrysler. We have three vehicles in our home. One is a Ford, two others are import/transplants. I have had GM in my driveway a couple times in the past.........but never again.

 

Merry Christmas to all you Blue Oval fans. Hope Ford has a great new year along with you.

 

 

I feel sorry for you. Life is too short for that bullshit grudge. You should tell that to the face of each and every employee of GM and Chrysler. Yeah, I do feel sorry for the secured bondholders, and the structured bankruptcy could have been handled better, but the American auto industry was saved along with the supplier base and Ford Motor. Hindsight is always better. Time to forget and move on. As for the Volt, in my view it's a very impressive vehicle inside and out. Premium all the way and worth more than most luxury cars in so many ways. Walgreen just announced that it will be installing chargers at most of its stores and Amazon will begine selling the new GE fast charger. Bring on the plug-ins, be they Ford, GM, or Chrysler. The money GM and Chrysler employees have already paid in federal and state taxes let alone state sales tax on each GM and Chrysler vehicle sold over last two year is way more than what federal government paid to save them.

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I feel sorry for you. Life is too short for that bullshit grudge. You should tell that to the face of each and every employee of GM and Chrysler. Yeah, I do feel sorry for the secured bondholders, and the structured bankruptcy could have been handled better, but the American auto industry was saved along with the supplier base and Ford Motor. Hindsight is always better. Time to forget and move on. As for the Volt, in my view it's a very impressive vehicle inside and out. Premium all the way and worth more than most luxury cars in so many ways. Walgreen just announced that it will be installing chargers at most of its stores and Amazon will begine selling the new GE fast charger. Bring on the plug-ins, be they Ford, GM, or Chrysler. The money GM and Chrysler employees have already paid in federal and state taxes let alone state sales tax on each GM and Chrysler vehicle sold over last two year is way more than what federal government paid to save them.

 

 

 

 

I sincerely thank you for your sympathy. But, I assure you, I am not a sorry or sympathetic figure. The only thing that would make me happier than your sorrow for me is for GM to fully repay their debt. It is not time to forget and move on, as you suggested. There is still a huge debt to be paid. Do you wish to just sweep that under the rug? Maybe you can afford that, but most of us cannot.

 

What some, including you obviously, seem to forget is that should GM filed a normal bankruptcy, some entity or company would have purchased them, if they were deemed fit. That is how business operates, or used to anyway. If they were not considered a good investment, let them become part of automotive history.

 

I like living in a country where you are paid for your efforts and your financial risks. The key term being "risks". With our auto companies there is no risk anymore.

 

Concerning the Volt, I have only seen one of them. It was an attractive vehicle, but not nearly worth the price in my opinion.. If it fits someone else's needs and desires, more power to them. However, they should buy it on their own. If it is such a great deal, it would not have to be subsidized by those of us not buying them.

 

In summary, let the auto companies, as well as all other companies, make it on their own. Or if they can't, let them die or become the property of a competitor.

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I sincerely thank you for your sympathy. But, I assure you, I am not a sorry or sympathetic figure. The only thing that would make me happier than your sorrow for me is for GM to fully repay their debt. It is not time to forget and move on, as you suggested. There is still a huge debt to be paid. Do you wish to just sweep that under the rug? Maybe you can afford that, but most of us cannot.

 

What some, including you obviously, seem to forget is that should GM filed a normal bankruptcy, some entity or company would have purchased them, if they were deemed fit. That is how business operates, or used to anyway. If they were not considered a good investment, let them become part of automotive history.

 

I like living in a country where you are paid for your efforts and your financial risks. The key term being "risks". With our auto companies there is no risk anymore.

 

Concerning the Volt, I have only seen one of them. It was an attractive vehicle, but not nearly worth the price in my opinion.. If it fits someone else's needs and desires, more power to them. However, they should buy it on their own. If it is such a great deal, it would not have to be subsidized by those of us not buying them.

 

In summary, let the auto companies, as well as all other companies, make it on their own. Or if they can't, let them die or become the property of a competitor.

 

 

 

The money GM and Chrysler employees have already paid in federal and state taxes let alone state sales tax on each GM and Chrysler vehicle sold over last two year is way more than what federal government paid to save them.

 

For example, at beginning of year, MI was supposed to have an unexpected $300 million state tax revenue surplus for his fiscal year, then it grew to $500 million by this summer, and now is estimated to be close to $1 billion meaning no cuts to public education after about five years of nothing but deep cuts. Most of this revenue is attributed to new vehicle sales and the huge sales tax bill that goes with it plus all the auto employees added and paying state income tax. Chrysler and GM alone saved many plants from extinction and hired new workers. The supplier base for everyone including Ford was saved. So for you to sit around and stew over YOUR money going to this is nonsense.

 

I personally would rather have a $35,000 Volt than an optioned out $45,000 MKZ. The interior on the Volt is nicer. And drive to work and back using little to no gas as bonus. As for no one buying them, the community I live in has lots of them on road. I see 2-3 everyday around here running errands. Seem to be a favorite with retired set. I would take one over the EV Leaf or Focus any day. Plug-ins are the future until EV's obtain much greater range and battery prices come down. Thank God for the Volt...best EV-Plug-in on market today until the Tesla S Model hits market, but that is going to cost much more than Volt.

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The money GM and Chrysler employees have already paid in federal and state taxes let alone state sales tax on each GM and Chrysler vehicle sold over last two year is way more than what federal government paid to save them.

 

For example, at beginning of year, MI was supposed to have an unexpected $300 million state tax revenue surplus for his fiscal year, then it grew to $500 million by this summer, and now is estimated to be close to $1 billion meaning no cuts to public education after about five years of nothing but deep cuts. Most of this revenue is attributed to new vehicle sales and the huge sales tax bill that goes with it plus all the auto employees added and paying state income tax. Chrysler and GM alone saved many plants from extinction and hired new workers. The supplier base for everyone including Ford was saved. So for you to sit around and stew over YOUR money going to this is nonsense.

 

I personally would rather have a $35,000 Volt than an optioned out $45,000 MKZ. The interior on the Volt is nicer. And drive to work and back using little to no gas as bonus. As for no one buying them, the community I live in has lots of them on road. I see 2-3 everyday around here running errands. Seem to be a favorite with retired set. I would take one over the EV Leaf or Focus any day. Plug-ins are the future until EV's obtain much greater range and battery prices come down. Thank God for the Volt...best EV-Plug-in on market today until the Tesla S Model hits market, but that is going to cost much more than Volt.

 

 

 

 

The argument that the auto workers are paying taxes is a weak one. We all pay taxes. Every category of worker does, as well as a lot of retired people. Should GM have been bought by another company those workers would still be paying taxes. AND, we would not be out any tax dollars for GM.

 

My argument is not with the Volt itself, it is with the government always thinking that the taxpayer is an endless supply of cash. The Volt is not selling well, despite the incentives that the taxpayer is providing. A large portion of the 6000 or so they have sold has been to municipalities using federal money. GE also is a big buyer of them. If you want one, I encourage you to buy it. I would not want to help or hinder your free choice of how to spend your hard earned money. On the other hand, I do not want the government to take my hard earned money and us it to support GM. The government should not be picking winners and losers. They should just stay out of the game and let the companies do what they do best (or in GM's case, not so well).

 

Either we live in a free-market system or we don't. Currently we do not, but I long for the day that embrace free-market principles as a society.

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Of course the Volt is good and it's the next big step in commuter driving. I want to touch on the subject of brand loyalty. Doesn't that usually start at home? I mean, whatever dad is driving is cool because we all wanna be just like him. When I turned 16, I inherited a 1963 Chrysler. Hence, my next car was a Rambler. Make no sense, I know. I had my own ideas of what cars I wanted to experience then because I was employed at a Dodge dealership after school. The perfect job for a car maniac. So I drove many used cars. I liked almost all of them because it was like having all there just waiting for me. Also, I have owned over 30 vehicles since then and I have had all of The Big 4 as they were known then. So now when I buy a car, I consider what I'll use it for, not what brand it is. I know I will not buy a 3rd PT Cruiser, but I will consider a vehicle that does what IT does in my next purchase. What the hell, drive as many as you can get your hands on. Who really makes a better car than any other car anyway? It's like peanut butter, smooth or crunchy.

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I sincerely thank you for your sympathy. But, I assure you, I am not a sorry or sympathetic figure. The only thing that would make me happier than your sorrow for me is for GM to fully repay their debt. It is not time to forget and move on, as you suggested. There is still a huge debt to be paid. Do you wish to just sweep that under the rug? Maybe you can afford that, but most of us cannot.

 

What some, including you obviously, seem to forget is that should GM filed a normal bankruptcy, some entity or company would have purchased them, if they were deemed fit. That is how business operates, or used to anyway. If they were not considered a good investment, let them become part of automotive history.

What some forget is that at the time, no one was lending money for Debtor In possession Financing

and doing nothing would have meant collapse of the entire North American Auto Industry.

 

 

What the government should have done was loaned GM the money with express stipulation that refinancing be done ASAP.

That way, the government would be made whole on funding with GM refinancing at the first opportunity.

 

I don't have a problem with the government subsidizing new technology, provided that there is a valid business plan,

anyone with a lick of sense knows that Fleets will be the early adopters of fuel saving technology, this is no different

and if it means that hybrid and EV technology is more quickly amortized, then all the better for retail consumers...

 

IMO, Volt was the wrong vehicle to showcase this technology, Malibu or even a new Impala would have been better.

Edited by jpd80
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The current Impala is not worthy nor modern enough to support this technology.

 

No but next gen Impala will be as it is on Epsilon II just like Regal, La Crosse and Cadillac XTS

LaCrosse, Impala and XTS should have all been delivered at the same time but weren't thanks to lutz...

Edited by jpd80
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What some forget is that at the time, no one was lending money for Debtor In possession Financing

and doing nothing would have meant collapse of the entire North American Auto Industry.

 

 

What the government should have done was loaned GM the money with express stipulation that refinancing be done ASAP.

That way, the government would be made whole on funding with GM refinancing at the first opportunity.

 

I don't have a problem with the government subsidizing new technology, provided that there is a valid business plan,

anyone with a lick of sense knows that Fleets will be the early adopters of fuel saving technology, this is no different

and if it means that hybrid and EV technology is more quickly amortized, then all the better for retail consumers...

 

IMO, Volt was the wrong vehicle to showcase this technology, Malibu or even a new Impala would have been better.

 

 

Good post. As to GE buying 15,000 Volts over a couple years, the fuel savings is much greater on 15,000 Volts going 25,000+ miles/year than some retired guy who buys one Volt to go to the grocery store and back and never drives more than 3,000 miles/year. Many businesses are buying the EV Transit Connect for example. So is the EV TC a failure because it's to fleet only? I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of Volt sales go to fleets at least over next couple years. NYC streets are full of Escape Hybrids. Fuel cost savings are huge for a taxi cab than goes 80,000 miles/year or more. Don't forget also that Poletown plant building the Volt is also building the European version that hasn't shipped yet because of the probelm with fire after the vehicle has been T-boned in crash. GM has established protocol for powering down the lithium-ion battery after crash. Europe is interested in the Ampera or whatever it's called.

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Good post. As to GE buying 15,000 Volts over a couple years, the fuel savings is much greater on 15,000 Volts going 25,000+ miles/year than some retired guy who buys one Volt to go to the grocery store and back and never drives more than 3,000 miles/year. Many businesses are buying the EV Transit Connect for example. So is the EV TC a failure because it's to fleet only? I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of Volt sales go to fleets at least over next couple years. NYC streets are full of Escape Hybrids. Fuel cost savings are huge for a taxi cab than goes 80,000 miles/year or more. Don't forget also that Poletown plant building the Volt is also building the European version that hasn't shipped yet because of the probelm with fire after the vehicle has been T-boned in crash. GM has established protocol for powering down the lithium-ion battery after crash. Europe is interested in the Ampera or whatever it's called.

 

Volt has arrived in Australia at around $60,000, you can expect European versions will cost similar...

I hope that business gets behind EVs, extended range EVs and PIHs so that cost benefits can be

passed onto ot retail buyers.

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Volt has arrived in Australia at around $60,000, you can expect European versions will cost similar...

I hope that business gets behind EVs, extended range EVs and PIHs so that cost benefits can be

passed onto ot retail buyers.

Couldn't businesses have done the same with diesel-powered vehicles and without the taxpayer subsidies?

 

True, the fuel savings may not be quite as much, but the cost of entry for diesel isn't nearly as much (and there is no charging station required which also adds to the cost).

 

And for there to be a ultimate cost savings, I'd think the fleet vehicle in question could not go more than about 50-60 miles per day. Most commercial vehicles are probably twice that on a daily basis.

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Couldn't businesses have done the same with diesel-powered vehicles and without the taxpayer subsidies?

 

True, the fuel savings may not be quite as much, but the cost of entry for diesel isn't nearly as much (and there is no charging station required which also adds to the cost).

 

And for there to be a ultimate cost savings, I'd think the fleet vehicle in question could not go more than about 50-60 miles per day. Most commercial vehicles are probably twice that on a daily basis.

 

Agree 100%

In my country (Australia) we have roughly $5.50/Us Gallon fuel and at that level:

90% of cars are still gasoline powered

Hybrids are 2% of cars

diesel is lucky to be 5% of cars

 

But

 

Small SUVs are 50/50 gasoline/diesel

Mid sized SUVs and Trucks are 75=80% diesel.

 

The weight of the vehicle makes all the difference with diesels, smaller vehicles by their very design are more efficient and any

fuel saving will be small on top of very efficient gasoline engines. Heavier vehicles like trucks and SUVs are perfect for diesels,

the Ford Territory is a perfect example of a RWD and AWD that has achieved close to a 30% improvement in fuel economy

whilst retaining its great torque reserve and towing capacity.

 

It all depends on how Ford develops their new 2.7 V6 Nano engine, if it becomes an Ecoboost engine, it should have around

320 hp @ 5000 and 360 lb ft between 1700 and 4000, something like that may make a diesel redundant for the US market.

as that engine will have most of the torque and economy traits of a diesel anyway...

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